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Question - Why don`t people post numbers? What am I missing?

TangoWhiskey

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After a few years on this great forum, I don't understand why I just don't see people post numbers that relate to the financial performance of specific deals. We are here to create wealth. No other reason.



So why is it that success in creating wealth is not celebrated?



Why don't people post numbers describing their deals and how well, or poorly they performed?



There may be a possible future negotiating advantage - you may not want to let others know you have done well. But other than this I don't understand why not.



Or is it cultural? That we as Canadians just don't celebrate our successes?



Or is it because people posting numbers would be inflating them for ego or advertising reasons?



We all need role models in our endeavours. Celebrating ethical success in wealth creation, and the ultimate giving back to society based on that wealth creation, should be a fundamental value.



I'm looking to start a debate here. Why don't people post the numbers of their deals????
 

housingrental

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It is cultural - people do not want to share what they consider private and also do not want to offend.

It can come off as bragging and does not provide any benefit to the community.



Tango feel free to post your tax returns starting from the year you started investing in real estate to today.
 

Alvaro Sanchez

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I would think that posting numbers does not really benefit you or the community as each investor has different performance goals in mind. Also trying to evaluate your own success based on others results or performance is short-sighted, focus on creating your own wealth instead of creating a debate.



If you are unsure about your performance then feel free to post your numbers and seek feedback from other members, I am sure each of us would contribute as per each capacity and experience.
 

invst4profit

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They likely don't post numbers because they are rarely as good as REIN suggests they should be. At least none I have ever seen.



My last purchase was for $410,000, all costs included, and the rental income was, on day one, approximately $5000/month. Due to the nature of my property my expenses, not including management (I do all the management and maintenance myself) runs between 25% and 30% annually over the past 5 years. This is considerably lower than a conventional rental property.

My rents are now $6800/ month. I also buy/reno/flip homes on the side.

I purchased the property with a VTB of 80% and used a HELOC for the down payment. The property will be completely paid off in 5 more years at which time I will sell, at a considerably higher price, (with a VTB) and retire.



The other thing I question the absence of bad tenant horror stories. I assume more of this info is on the Private members forum.
 

terri

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Some people have posted numbers. Most don't. It is a public forum and not everyone may not want the whole world to have access to that information.



I think that most members would be willing to share privately if it would be of benefit. I am happy to share with other members that are looking to invest in similar properties to my own.



I don't think that we need to post our numbers to celebrate our successes. Maybe that's very Canadian of me. I think we celebrate our successes with those that are close to us and by enjoying the life that we create for ourselves. When I joined REIN, I got the impression that what Don was speaking about was creating a rich life, not focussing on creating monetary wealth. Looking at the bigger picture so to speak. At least that's I got from it. We all hear what we want to hear and take from it what we need. Anyway, I do completely get that you can't really compare or understand without seeing the numbers, but even then numbers are just part of the equation. There are also other things that have value that people don't show in their numbers, like time/energy/stress/hassle. In order to be completely transparent and understand the true value of someone's portfolio you need to see so much more that just the numbers.
 

Thomas Beyer

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[quote user=invst4profit]My last purchase was for $410,000, all costs included, and the rental income was, on day one, approximately $5000/month. ... My rents are now $6800/ month.
Impressive. What kind of asset is this ? A small multi-plex, say an 8 plex ?
 

invst4profit

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You know what it is Thomas :)

Mobile Home Parks are the best cash flowing asset available. Corporations are buying them up like wild fire.



http://www.mobilehomeuniversity.com/forum/list.php?1list.php



For the small investor wanting one or two parks there is also the secondary income of flipping homes in your own park, handy man work as well as hard money loans to tenants for anything from mortgages to TVs at 10-15% interest. Tenants never skip on rent payments as the tenant is tethered to their home ownership and like RTO investments the park owner has no maintenance costs on homes. Park owners can also list homes for sale, if licensed, within the park for more income. The greatest hurdle to getting in is financing which is where corporate buyers have a advantage. (can you tell I love talking about my business).
 

Rickson9

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Many individuals settle for terrible returns when investing. My opinion only.
 

invst4profit

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I think many fall for the hype that paying down the mortgage over 30 years is the real reward for being a investor. Some will even justify and willingly accept negative cash flow to that end.



To each their own I suppose.
 

TangoWhiskey

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[quote user=housingrental]It is cultural - people do not want to share what they consider private and also do not want to offend.

It can come off as bragging and does not provide any benefit to the community.



Tango feel free to post your tax returns starting from the year you started investing in real estate to today.








I actually haven't filed taxes in 3 years, I feel pretty ashamed to say. Something really interesting though was that the bank who gave me the mortgages on my last three deals, which closed 3 weeks ago and 7 days ago, still had no problem funding the mortgages despite not having filed them.



So I don't have any tax returns to share but my net worth has gone up so much in the 3 years I've done this that to be honest I find my life has changed. This wealth creation must be why the bank gave me the mortgages, but why I asked this question is that I've found the journey of wealth creation fundamentally life altering. Its a very different experience of life, with almost entirely positive aspects about it. When I look at my wife's and my situation and freedom versus every other middle class educated couple I feel very grateful for the difference, proud of being the architect of it, and more than anything feeling like I'm just starting to learn.



Coupled with the amazing power of the resource of this great community, and the web of connections it brings, if you started with some capital you will surely become very wealthy.



So it would be really helpful if people around the country could post specifics, talk a bit about their markets and share what true numbers are, because it would make it a whole lot easier and more efficient to know for real what markets to target by looking at actual numbers. When I read Thomas say multi family won't cashflow for the first 2-3 yrs 75 % levered due to reinvestment, that's a pretty darn useful insight. It would really help people learn, to read what other true numbers are and around the country. Its a solo job enough; sharing numbers would make it easier I think.
 

TangoWhiskey

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Whoops! Correction.



[quote user=housingrental]It is cultural - people do not want to share what they consider private and also do not want to offend.

It can come off as bragging and does not provide any benefit to the community.



Tango feel free to post your tax returns starting from the year you started investing in real estate to today.








I actually haven't filed taxes in 3 years, I feel pretty ashamed to say. Something really interesting though was that the bank who gave me the mortgages on my last three deals, which closed 3 weeks ago and 7 days ago, still had no problem funding the mortgages despite not having filed them.



So I don't have any tax returns to share but my net worth has gone up so much in the 3 years I've done this that to be honest I find my life has changed. This wealth creation must be why the bank gave me the mortgages, but why I asked this question is that I've found the journey of wealth creation fundamentally life altering. Its a very different experience of life, with almost entirely positive aspects about it. When I look at my wife's and my situation and freedom versus every other middle class educated couple in their late 30's we know I feel very grateful for the difference, proud of being the architect of it, and more than anything feeling like I'm just starting to learn.



Coupled with the amazing power of the resource of this great community, and the web of connections it brings, if you started with some capital you will surely become very wealthy.



So it would be really helpful if people around the country could post specifics, talk a bit about their markets and share what true numbers are, because it would make it a whole lot easier and more efficient to know for real what markets to target by looking at actual numbers. When I read Thomas say multi family won't cashflow for the first 2-3 yrs 75 % levered due to reinvestment, that's a pretty darn useful insight. It would really help people learn, to read what other true numbers are and around the country. Its a solo job enough; sharing numbers would make it easier I think.
 

Jed

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Greg,



I'm intrigued with this type of real estate investment opportunity. Do you think you can share some insights with me? I can tell how much you enjoy talking about it.
 

invst4profit

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I can share info but it is no different that any other real estate vehicle in that you research the topic to death then move forward when you are comfortable. Check out the forum I posted above, read every post and all the articles. By the time you are done you will know it all except the specific details related to Canada.
 

Thomas Beyer

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[quote user=TangoWhiskey]

... journey of wealth creation fundamentally life altering. Its a very different experience of life, with almost entirely positive aspects about it. When I look at my wife's and my situation and freedom versus every other middle class educated couple in their late 30's we know I feel very grateful for the difference, proud of being the architect of it, and more than anything feeling like I'm just starting to learn. ..




indeed .. shifting thinking (then acting) from monthly income to net worth improvement had a substantial impact on my life about 12-14 years ago (late 30's then, too) as well !



I also think numbers are relevant as some deals "in principle" make sense, but often do not once specifics are taken into consideration. For example, multi-family investing in Edmonton, AB (or many other growth markets) makes total sense in principle, but a specific asset at a specific price with a specific mortgage may not make sense at all.
 

Rickson9

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[quote user=TangoWhiskey]So it would be really helpful if people around the country could post
specifics, talk a bit about their markets and share what true numbers
are, because it would make it a whole lot easier and more efficient to
know for real what markets to target by looking at actual numbers.


Only
speaking for myself, if monthly rent is 1.5% (or greater) of total
purchase price, then I'm interested. Otherwise, I don't really care.



Since you asked, my numbers and market were posted here:

Canadians Snap Up US Properties



As
far as real estate is concerned, I've found it to be pretty much equal to stocks in
creating wealth. Stocks is slightly easier because I don't have to
deal with/call/email anyone and although the use of debt is a personal choice, it's easier to invest in stocks without the use of leverage. Only speaking for myself, I don't find debt to be necessary in creating wealth.
 

Thomas Beyer

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[quote user=Rickson9]Only speaking for myself, I don't find debt to be necessary in creating wealth.
What's wrong with borrowing (50-80% of asset value) at 3% and buying an asset that yields 5-8% ?
 

Rickson9

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What's wrong with borrowing nothing and buying an asset that yields 10%-15%?
 

Thomas Beyer

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[quote user=Rickson9]What's wrong with borrowing nothing and buying an asset that yields 10%-15%?
There's noting wrong with it, but in the real world those 10-15% assets do not exist or the risk is underestimated !
 

Rickson9

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[quote user=ThomasBeyer]There's noting wrong with it, but in the real world those 10-15% assets do not exist or the risk is underestimated!




Or the 3rd choice is that the majority of investors do not have the appropriate temperament to achieve it.
 

reinvestors88

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[quote user=TangoWhiskey]So it would be really helpful if people around the country could post specifics, talk a bit about their markets and share what true numbers are, because it would make it a whole lot easier and more efficient to know for real what markets to target by looking at actual numbers.



This is a great idea. Can you start posting your excellent numbers? Thanks for sharing.
 
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