Suggestion - Reporting Market Rents

NickStewart

Inspired Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
63
0
6
Edmonton
#1
Hi Garth,I talked to you last night in Ottawa and I thought instead of sending an email, I`d post my suggestion here so others could elaborate on it.

IDEA
- Give the software the ability to send current market rent information from users` existing properties to a central database, where it is sorted by property type, city, neighborhood, MLS zone, etc.

Then, when we are analyzing a property, the software (if connected to the internet) could go to that central repository of current market rents and bring in actual rents that members are actually getting in that exact city, neighborhood and property type for comparison purposes.

To me this would be far superior to trying to find market rents by spending my time looking in newspapers and online rental sites.

I envision the reporting of market rents being invisible to the user - whenever you finish inputting data on a property or making a change to your rental rates, the data gets sent.

As for the calling up of market rents, I see that being an either/or where you can either input a number from your own thoughts or click a button that says "Get Comps
" and it pulls the data into the analyzer.

There`s my suggestion Garth. As for the HOW to make it happen, that`s well beyond my capability!


And thanks again for that great presentation yesterday!

Nick
 

GarthChapman

Frequent Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
1,822
1
38
#2
Hi Nick,
Very interesting concept, very well thought out and described, and I`m sure very complex to engineer. Nicely done!

We will put this to the REIN team and also will have to look at how it would have to be built and if it could be built. THis will probably take quite a while as we must focus now on ensuring all bugs are fixed as soon as reported, and that all Users get quick replies and up to speed with the program quickly. And there are many more new ones every day.

This is indeed a brilliant concept that opens up a whole new realm of the ways in which we might ultimately utilize REMA to huge advantage for all REIN members.
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#3

GarthChapman

Frequent Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
1,822
1
38
#4
From my conversations with both Boris and Nick I understood these two ideas to be different. So to ensure clarity, here is my understanding of each in short.

Boris- you want , by MLS district, a gross rent multiplier using projected rents - yes?
- This would be static information provided by the User at time of Purchase and would not take into account # bedrooms or Property Type.
- For all those thousands of properties already reported to REIN via 17-3 some method of sending this information after the fact could likely be devised.

Nick- you want, by MLS district, actual rents by property type and # bedrooms - yes?. This request seems primarily aimed at making it easier to determine what our rents for our specific properties should be.
- This takes Property Type and # bedrooms into account and is dynamic information of actual rents, with some method of updating the current information to the central database as it changes over time.
- By the way this would require that we all use the same Property Type identifiers locked-in to REMA.

Great ideas both. Please confirm if I understand each idea correctly or use this to modify or expand on your ideas.

And the rest of you out there - join in if you have some thoughts or comments.
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#5
Hi Garth,

We all talking about the same thing.

My approach was to collect such information via 17-3 (attach property to official MLS region). I think it is "low hanging fruit". All we need to do is to add "locked" (as you said) list of MLS regions into the system that will be part of 17-3 program.

Once REMA knows about this it could start feeding database on REIN side. This database could become a source of all kinds of staistics, reports, etc.

Nick is talking about how to use this central database for purpose of "comparisons". If REIN members purchased 13000 properties in country - it could be pretty significant source of Real Estate statistics. And every REIN member can benefit from it. We all know about CMHC reports about CMAs that show rents and prices. It is very often not the case for rents that REIN members attract thanks to methods that we know.

I know that there should be some level of "privacy information protection". But MLS region, unit type (number of bedrooms, ) and rent are not that much of the secret because they should be advertised to get renters.

I trust that this little piece of information (MLS region) and 17-3 form could bring lots of benefits for the whole REIN community.

Thanks a lot,
Boris
 

NickStewart

Inspired Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
63
0
6
Edmonton
#6
QUOTE (BMironov @ Sep 28 2007, 09:51 AM)
Hi Garth,



We all talking about the same thing.



My approach was to collect such information via 17-3 (attach property to official MLS region). I think it is "low hanging fruit". All we need to do is to add "locked" (as you said) list of MLS regions into the system that will be part of 17-3 program.



Once REMA knows about this it could start feeding database on REIN side. This database could become a source of all kinds of staistics, reports, etc.



Nick is talking about how to use this central database for purpose of "comparisons". If REIN members purchased 13000 properties in country - it could be pretty significant source of Real Estate statistics. And every REIN member can benefit from it. We all know about CMHC reports about CMAs that show rents and prices. It is very often not the case for rents that REIN members attract thanks to methods that we know.



I know that there should be some level of "privacy information protection". But MLS region, unit type (number of bedrooms, ) and rent are not that much of the secret because they should be advertised to get renters.



I trust that this little piece of information (MLS region) and 17-3 form could bring lots of benefits for the whole REIN community.



Thanks a lot,

Boris




Yeah, what he said




I suggested it as a 2-way data sharing thing simply because if it's on the 17-3, it's a one time only deal (unless we all submit a new 17-3 form every time we adjust rents)



If I bump my rents up by $150 and it is automatically reflected in a central database, then everyone gets current-right-now statistical info. I would find this especially helpful because with my first couple of properties, the market rents I was able to find in the paper were actually at least 10% lower than what I actually got. A nice problem to have in some ways, but when we're looking at some borderline break even properties, we want the best info. possible.



You are right about having to lock in property types for accurate comparisons.



Nick
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#7


Another idea when submit 17-3 would be to return unique ID of the property back to REMA. This way it will be easier to maintain such communication about rent increases in particular property and central REIN database.

Sort of "REIN property number" (read SIN number)


P.S. I do not think that resubmitting properties will be a big deal for members beacuse:
- they will ultimately enter information about all of them into the system
- running 17-3 and regular "faxing" will take care of new properties.

Best regards,
Boris
 

NickStewart

Inspired Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
63
0
6
Edmonton
#8
QUOTE (BMironov @ Sep 28 2007, 01:58 PM)


Another idea when submit 17-3 would be to return unique ID of the property back to REMA. This way it will be easier to maintain such communication about rent increases in particular property and central REIN database.

Sort of "REIN property number" (read SIN number)


I like that... but rather than re-inventing the wheel, why don`t we use a unique property identifier that already exists, like the address or lot/block/plan number.

Nick
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#9
I did not say that we should substitute legal address.

If you want to base the database on such address then you should provide it with 17-3


By the end of the day, it is very simple on database level to use some sort of unique ID for each property.
 

NickStewart

Inspired Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
63
0
6
Edmonton
#10
QUOTE (BMironov @ Sep 28 2007, 02:17 PM)
I did not say that we should substitute legal address.

If you want to base the database on such address then you should provide it with 17-3


By the end of the day, it is very simple on database level to use some sort of unique ID for each property.

Sorry, didn`t explain myself fully, I was thinking the address or lot-block-plan because they never change, even if the property gets sold to another REIN member. I just want to avoid having duplicate entries on the database where possible. (I buy the property and register it with a SIN, sell it to Joe who registers the same property with a different SIN, etc.)

This is fun - I like coming up with a whole bunch of stuff to throw at Garth... let`s see what else we can come up with for him and his gang...
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#11
QUOTE (NickStewart @ Sep 28 2007, 04:42 PM)
Sorry, didn't explain myself fully, I was thinking the address or lot-block-plan because they never change, even if the property gets sold to another REIN member. I just want to avoid having duplicate entries on the database where possible. (I buy the property and register it with a SIN, sell it to Joe who registers the same property with a different SIN, etc.)



This is fun - I like coming up with a whole bunch of stuff to throw at Garth... let's see what else we can come up with for him and his gang...





In this case, I think, it is perfectly fine to issue another SIN for this property because:

- it will be reported in 17-3 program without connection to previous owner

- it is new business now

- it will prevent old owner getting access to new "internals" of this property (if such will be reported to REIN central database)



We can confirm with REIN team that this property will be counted 2 times in reports that Don present once in a while about number of properties that REIN members acquired.



Best regards,

Boris
 

GarthChapman

Frequent Forum Member
REIN Member
Aug 30, 2007
1,822
1
38
#12
Remember that if we choose to report via 17-3 it would be static information that will be quickly out of date and thereby not useful in assisting members to set their rents or in knowing current gross rent multiplier figures by region.

I agree that we would need some sort of unique Property identifier, and that using the legal description would be logical although it may create some privacy concerns. Creating a new ID with a new required field in REMA may work better but I don`t know how we could make this truly unique. Maybe REMA would automatically send the full address including postal code (these would have to be required fields then) and the central database would convert that to a unique identifier. In this way the address would remain the private information of the owner and yet we would have a control mechanism to ensure no duplicate reporting, and also ensure accurate MLS district reporting.

I submit it would be much more useful if we could create a method of supplying current data, perhaps requiring the User to press a `send` button which would update the central database automatically via internet connection, by recognizing a unique property identifier to the central database and updating with all current rents, categorized by MLS disttrict, Property Type and # bedrooms.

Down the road we could include all sorts of other information in the same way using the same database and process of updating.

It is great to see the creativity coming out of this. For me the best part is coming up with new ways to use REMA to help us all be more succesful.
 

BMironov

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 29, 2007
597
0
0
46
Toronto, ON
#13
Hello,

Probably this protocol would explain Unique ID better. Let`s assume that in our REMA database we have table "Properties" and it has column "Id" which is NULL-able.

1. User creates new record in table Properties. There is no access to column Id via entry screen.
2. User reports this property via "17-3" (in this case it should electronic reporting and not just fax generating. Fax is just simple report that only reads table). Electronic reporting is two-way protocol between local REMA software and central REIN database.
3. Central REIN database accepts data from REMA and issues sort of reference #, which is unique for REIN database.
4. REMA saves this reference # into column Properties.Id on local computer

Not NULL value in column Properties.Id means this it was reported via internet into central database and was accepted. It will simplify identification of property. Let`s say user decides to change address from "123 Dundas st. W" to "123 Dundas street West". Instead of creating huge logic to support such change it will be simpler to use some internal number
Legal address of the property could be very cumbersome in some localities. For example, here is legal address of my very first property:

Southerly one half from front to rear of lot #334 and the northerly 3 feet 7 inches from front to rear of lot 333 on the east side of Seventh street plan 1592 as in CA800141. City of Toronto (Formerly city of Etobicoke)

Ugh!
Try to put into 3 "simple" fields


Back to not NULL value of column. This will help with following problems:
  • when users will enter information about their properties and not report it electronically. NULL value is sort of flag saying that property is not reported yet. It could be used in some "Portfolio Status" screen that will say "Today you own 10 properties and 7 of them are not reported to REIN" simplify reporting of rent increases later on and not re-register property again.

I just calculated number of users (based on Sep 2007 REIN award winners list) and it is 700.
And they have reported at least 7998 properties to REIN. Plus there are a number of people who has less than 3 properties and not in the list and those who is between the levels.

This just shows amount of traffic that central database will experience and help its approximate size. And it is not a lot for any modern database engine.


Calculations:
Award winners: 3 + 62*3 + 41*4 +15 + 1 + 53*2 + 1 + 38 + 19 = 700

Number of properties:
9 + 62*3*5 + 41*8*4 + 5*8*3 + 8 + 53*17*2+17 + 38*50 + 19*100 = 7998
 

ArnelAliwalas

New Forum Member
Registered
Sep 9, 2007
16
0
0
45
Calgary
#14
I found a really cool website that pulls market rent and creates a `rent meter` with a map:Hi Garth,

I talked to you last night in Ottawa and I thought instead of sending an email, I`d post my suggestion here so others could elaborate on it.

IDEA
- Give the software the ability to send current market rent information from users` existing properties to a central database, where it is sorted by property type, city, neighborhood, MLS zone, etc.

Then, when we are analyzing a property, the software (if connected to the internet) could go to that central repository of current market rents and bring in actual rents that members are actually getting in that exact city, neighborhood and property type for comparison purposes.

To me this would be far superior to trying to find market rents by spending my time looking in newspapers and online rental sites.

I envision the reporting of market rents being invisible to the user - whenever you finish inputting data on a property or making a change to your rental rates, the data gets sent.

As for the calling up of market rents, I see that being an either/or where you can either input a number from your own thoughts or click a button that says "Get Comps
" and it pulls the data into the analyzer.

There`s my suggestion Garth. As for the HOW to make it happen, that`s well beyond my capability!


And thanks again for that great presentation yesterday!

Nick
 

RedDeerWilliam

New Forum Member
Registered
Aug 30, 2007
51
0
0
Red Deer
#15
This site works well in large centers like Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto...etc. but not so good for the small cities like Red Deer where I'm from! There just doesn't seem to be enough information available in these here hic towns I reckon!



The discussions above between Boris, nick and Garth are also very interesting. I manually collect rents from our local REIN members here in Red Deer, in addition to polling the web and the local newspapers for rents and create charts from this on a monthly basis. So having REMA do this virtually automatically would be a real energy and time saver for me! But then again maybe folks like me could also input these advertised rents into REMA to further enhance and support the total rental figures! Perhaps even separating the REIN rents versus the generally advertised rents could prove interesting!



I'd include an older copy of one of my monthly rental charts as an attachment here but it doesn't appear I can. So if you want to see a copy of these charts, let me know and I'll send any intersted parties a copy of one! It covers Red Deer, Sylvan Lake and Lacombe rents.






QUOTE (arnel @ Nov 4 2007, 07:26 AM)
I found a really cool website that pulls market rent and creates a 'rent meter' with a map:



http://www.rentometer.com/rentometer/index_ca



Not only is it a cool way to get rent comparables it can export that info to your website! Very cool!



Arnel