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What Does 0.25% Mean To You And I

wgraham

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Well Tuesday`s rate increase by the Bank of Canada made big headlines this week. There were some people that argued that the increase wasn`t justified with the current global economic uncertainty but the majority of economists predicted the increase as Canada is leading the G7 in terms of economic growth and stability. But, more importantly, what does this rate hike really mean to you and me?

bank_of_canada_rate_july_2010.jpg


A quarter point increase means a difference of $12.36 on $100,000 of debt assuming a 25 year amortization. I don’t know about you but this doesn’t make too much of a difference in my daily life and as real estate investors we carry a substantial amount of mortgage debt!

The media and most Canadians like to make a big deal over these rate increases and decreases. It gives us something other than a rainy summer to talk about but to the average home owner and investor these small increases simply mean we need to have a couple of less lattes each month.

To me the signal of a rate increase or decrease is really a sign of economic strength. When I see the rates climbing it means to me that we are going in the right direction economically even though there may be some dark clouds this fall and winter. Jobs are starting to return and people are spending money again. Inflation may be a factor but for people with debt (the government included) this is a good thing as inflation means that even though a million dollars may seem like a lot today it won’t 10 years from now. Do you remember what your parents paid for their home? Doesn’t seem like much now does it?

I think that we will see an average of 0.75% increase each year for the next couple of years until we get back to a “normal” interest rate. Factor this into your personal home and investment purchases when you chose a variable mortgage. For those of you who think that a fixed rate mortgage is safer please do the math and see the very large difference in payments! I recommend that you take the 5 year fixed payment but take a variable rate mortgage. The savings with this strategy are very significant. According to Don R Campbell of the Real Estate Investment Network with a $300,000 mortgage you could save whopping $16,608 in 5 years and this gives you amazing flexibility. Isn’t it better to put that money in your pocket rather than the banks? It is little strategies like this that make a big big difference in your financial well being and the return on your investments.

So as the Bank of Canada changes the overnight rate remember to keep perspective and prosper! Hopefully the sun will return we will have more interesting things to talk about!
 

REINteam

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This is a very pertinent insight, Wade. At a time like this, as Don always says, you must "peel back the onion" and look to see "what`s behind the curtain."

The mainstream media always has the tendency to make things seem greater than they are, whether it is in a negative or positive light. Informed investors will always read between the lines, and the twelve dollars and change that it will affect you on $100,000 is clearly a tiny price to pay for the economic growth that will come as a result. The rise of interest rates is a sign that things are looking up for the long term.


Colin Bruce presented some great mortgage numbers at our May BC workshop, and it is astounding how much harder your money will work for you when paid into a variable rate mortgage.

Assuming a $300,00 mortgage over a 35 year amortization:

The first payment on a fixed mortgage would be $1412.05, while it would only be $954.78 on a variable rate mortgage.

Even better is this: on the fixed rate mortgage, only $297.45 goes towards the principal, while the remaining $$1114.60 is going towards paying the interest. If you were paying into the variable mortgage, $517.78 goes towards the principal while you are only paying $437 in interest.

With a variable rate mortgage, your monthly payment is lower, and more money goes to paying down the principal. With numbers like that, why wouldn`t everyone want to se themselves up to win with a variable rate? Sounds good to me.
 

PeterKinchMortgageTeam

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You`re absolutley right Wade. in fact,i`ll go even further and say that this rate hike is great news for real estate investors. Think about it, in the Spring we had a perfect storm for a spike in prices - fear of rising rates, fear of HST and a Spring market. Now we have the perfect storm for the opposite; HST is here, Rates are rising and it`s the summer market. Those factors combined could easily add up to a drop in prices over the next few months as consumers misinterpret a simple summer market for a false recovery fueled by fearful headlines. This is great for ReIN members. Prices will drop over the next few months as most consumers step off the playing field and sit on the sidelines waiting to see what happens. Over the fall and winter, Canadians will realize that rates are not going to skyrocket and, as Wade has pointed out - they are still relatively inexpenasive, as they will realize that all the hype around the HST is unfounded and that HST will have no lasting impact on real estate prices. And guess what - next spring we will have another hot spring market because our fundamentals are strong and the BOC will not be able to keep raising rates as long as they have issues in Europe and the States and anyone who bought this summer at a discount will see gains in the Spring
REIN members know how to seperate the facts from the hype and thats why you are so successful.

Peter
 

wgraham

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Great points Peter.

buying in the spring is generally tough as an investor and we haven`t purchased anything now for 5 months. Very few motivated people for my style of investment.

With all of the things you mentioned coming I do see another buying opportunity this fall and winter. We are currently stock piling investor money and waiting on the sidelines until that great investment comes along that delivers great cash flow.

The deep dark months of November and December are great for investors generally but I think this year will be even more fruitful!

Turn off the media this summer and enjoy the weather. Get back to work this winter when everyone else is staying inside from the cold....
 

brendan82

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For the people with fixed rates it the overnight rate wont affect your mortgage rate as the bond market determines that. For Variable rates it will but we still have a few years of very cheap mortgage rates ahead of us due to the strength of Canadas economy relative to the rest of the world.
 

kornel

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QUOTE (wgraham @ Jul 22 2010, 05:08 PM) I recommend that you take the 5 year fixed payment but take a variable rate mortgage. The savings with this strategy are very significant. According to Don R Campbell of the Real Estate Investment Network with a $300,000 mortgage you could save whopping $16,608 in 5 years and this gives you amazing flexibility. Isn’t it better to put that money in your pocket rather than the banks?

What if an investor used their HELOC as a down payment for an investment property. Would the optimum strategy then be to take the variable like suggested, and use the extra cash flow to pay down the HELOC instead of the mortgage? My reasoning for this is that the mortgage is cheaper money than a HELOC, and by paying down the HELOC you free up capital to use as a down payment for new properties.

Even if you have a re-advanceable mortgage on the property and thus eliminating the "more money for downpayment" advantage, do you still pay-off the HELOC due to it`s higher interest rate even though you`re just doing interest-only payments anyway?

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

P.S. A big thanks to REIN for informing us of the strategy Wade mentioned. I just wonder if the HELOC variable changes the final recommendation.

Kornel Szrejber
[email protected]
 

housingrental

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Hi Kornel
No not really
As long as your okay with the extra risk of using debt to fund down payment on the investment property
 

wgraham

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I would pay down the mortgage first as usually it is more expensive than a HELOC. As a general debt payment strategy pay the most expensive first (credit cards etc) then move down the line to the cheaper debt (HELOC)

I know this has been said a million times on this message board but make sure you calculate the HELOC debt payments into your investment and budget at a much higher interest rate! If you don`t like what you see when you do that then using a HELOC as the down payment may not be the best idea for you as an investor.

Cheers
 

PaulSarantis

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Paying down your mortgage before the HELOC if the mortgage rate is greater makes sense, more so assuming the following:

Assuming your HELOC was set up for the purpose of investing, the interest you pay on the HELOC is tax deductable.
The interest you are paying on your mortgage is not.

You will have to consult with your accountant/tax professional to ensure the CRA doesn`t have a different view on your particular situation.
If you have used HELOC funds to pay bills or take a vacation, and its all blended in with the funds you used for the downpayment on your investment, you will have an issue with claiming the interest on the HELOC was for invenstment purposes.

Again, consult with your tax professional before you do anything to avoid headaches in the future.

Paul
 

housingrental

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The interest he`d be paying on the mortgage should be too if the mortgage of the investment property!
QUOTE (PaulSarantis @ Jul 30 2010, 09:39 AM) Paying down your mortgage before the HELOC if the mortgage rate is greater makes sense, more so assuming the following:

Assuming your HELOC was set up for the purpose of investing, the interest you pay on the HELOC is tax deductable.
The interest you are paying on your mortgage is not.

You will have to consult with your accountant/tax professional to ensure the CRA doesn`t have a different view on your particular situation.
If you have used HELOC funds to pay bills or take a vacation, and its all blended in with the funds you used for the downpayment on your investment, you will have an issue with claiming the interest on the HELOC was for invenstment purposes.

Again, consult with your tax professional before you do anything to avoid headaches in the future.

Paul
 

PaulSarantis

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Yes that`s true.
The brain wasn`t fully fired up this morning.

So much for my first post adding any value!!!!
 

georgefung

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Sorry, Wade/Adam:

I`m not clear about your answers to Kornel`s question.

I believe that I`m in a similar situation as Kornel with my first property. I`m 100% leveraged, having paid the 20% down payment with my HELOC, and have the remaining 80% on the mortgage. Contrary to Wade`s assumption, my HELOC rate is 1% HIGHER than my mortgage rate. And since both the HELOC and mortgage are solely for investing, both interests are tax deductible.

Shouldn`t my first priority for any extra cash (from cashflow or from external sources) be to pay down the higher rate HELOC, which also has the added benefit of freeing up HELOC room for future downpayments? Or am I missing any strategy that I`m unaware of?

Thanks in advance.

George
 

markl

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The way I look at debt pay down is Unsecured debt or high interest debt first and then paying down your principal residence mortgage as this in most cases is not tax deductible. George if you have set your mortgage up properly the extra pay down to your home mortgage should give you extra room in your HELOC if not than usually a quick call to your HELOC company and showing them a statement will allow you to gain the extra monies in the HELOC.

Once your principal mortgage has been paid off and you have no other debts I would then begin the process of HELOC pay down and depending on your strategy to pay down your investment properties.

Hope this adds some clarity to the above statements.

Regards,
 

MikeMcC874

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Quick Math example with possibly contrived numbers of my understanding of this topic assuming a 40% personal tax rate:

Personal home Mortgage @ 3% is Not tax deductible === 3% (3% * 100%)
Rental Mortgage @ 3% is Tax Deductible === 1.8% (3% * 60%)
Rental Down payment HELOC @ 4% is Tax Deductible
if careful === 2.4% (4% * 60%)

In general, the real value of paying off your personal mortgage as opposed to you investment funds is greater. Higher interest rate private funds may tip the value towards the investment money but do the math.
 

georgefung

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Thanks, Mark/Mike:

That makes everything clear, and confirms my own rationale.

The strategy that Mark explains is straight-forward, and Mike`s quick numbers make sense.
It`s so great to be able to confirm these basic principles through the forum.

George
 

brad

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Mark nailed it bang on for my situation.

All available funds are being used to pay down my non-deductible principle mortage debt, resulting in an increase to my secured l.o.c. which when used for investments is deductible. Once the principle mortgage is eliminated/swapped I will focus on the l.o.c.
 
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