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Slightly rising interest rates - Locking in or not ?

Do you lock in for 5 years usually ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 100.0%

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

Thomas Beyer

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The Bank of Canada raised the overnight target rate ("wholesale prime rate"), as expected, by 0.25% to 1% earlier this week. Banks tack on a generous 220% profit margin so the retail prime rate is now 3.2% (although it used to be 3% when BofC's overnight rate was 1% a few years ago).

Banks are like clothing or shoe stores: big margin between wholesale and retail price, plus some popular items have bigger margins than others. Like clothing retailer they also pad some loans more than others. Why ? Because they can !

As a further two hikes by 0.25% each are expected in 2018, the question is: to lock in a 5 year rate or go shorter or variable ?

I'd say: Never EVER lock in or go 5 years.

Four reasons:

1) Banks don't know rates 5 years out so they pad this popular rate with the biggest risk premium.
2) 5 years are most popular with non-investors such as entry level and even more mature home owners and as such banks pad this rate with the biggest cushion.
3) variable rates are always cheaper, on average
4) 2-3 year rates are always quite a bit cheaper than 5 year terms

Do you buy new shoes or a new shirt if they are 20% more ? A 5 year rate is often 0.4 to 0.6% more than a 2 year rate of say 2.5%. 0.5% over 2.5% is 20% more !

Who cares you might say. What's the difference of say 0.4% on a $400,000 loan ? $1600/year or over $130/month. That is one fancy or two basic dinners for two A MONTH .. on the bank !

The ONLY reason to go 5 years is when you expect a major drop in income in 2-3 years but most banks auto-refinance at the then lower mortgage balance by offering you a choice, so while in theory they can call the mortgage due in three years that is very very rare.

I usually go with two and sometimes three year mortgages when re-financing my several houses or condos I own as the rates and the payout penalty are far lower.
 
Last edited:

kfort

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Could probably sticky this for the next... foreseeable future.
 

adriano

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I totally agree!!! About 20 years ago I locked in my mortgage thinking it was a good rate and it couldn't go any lower. Well it wasn't 6 months and the bank started lowering the rate. I had locked in for 3 years. At least it was only 3 years. But by the time my mortgage came up for renewal again the rate was down to half of what I locked in for. Since then I have only locked in for 1 or 2 years. But mostly I stay variable because in the long run it is WAY cheaper. Also in commercial mortgages you can't pay down a mortgage with lump sum payments if your are locked in. I say variable all the way. But if you think you need to lock 1 or 2 years tops.
 

Willyboy

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I totally agree!!! About 20 years ago I locked in my mortgage thinking it was a good rate and it couldn't go any lower. Well it wasn't 6 months and the bank started lowering the rate. I had locked in for 3 years. At least it was only 3 years. But by the time my mortgage came up for renewal again the rate was down to half of what I locked in for. Since then I have only locked in for 1 or 2 years. But mostly I stay variable because in the long run it is WAY cheaper. Also in commercial mortgages you can't pay down a mortgage with lump sum payments if your are locked in. I say variable all the way. But if you think you need to lock 1 or 2 years tops.

20 years ago the rate was way higher and it had room to go down. Now it's at an extremely historical low close to zero and can't go much lower again if any. I'm also starting to lean towards variable but if they raise the rate to a very high level in the next five years like close to 10% or higher it'll get ugly.
 

Thomas Beyer

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20 years ago the rate was way higher and it had room to go down. Now it's at an extremely historical low close to zero and can't go much lower again if any. I'm also starting to lean towards variable but if they raise the rate to a very high level in the next five years like close to 10% or higher it'll get ugly.

If you honestly believe interest rates will go to ten percent then you should sell all your assets immediately. Now.

Your assumptions about the world matter. They have to be fairly accurate to be successful. If you believe City A is going to have massive job losses, and you're right, then you should not invest there. If you believe they will have massive job gains and therefore overpay, but the town actually loses many jobs, then your investments will be impaired.

As such, tell us why rates would be ten percent. What in the world has to happen to make this prediction true?
 
Last edited:

Willyboy

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Honestly I'm not making a prediction and have no clue how much the rate will be 1, 5, 10 years or longer but I have been looking at historical data which shows the rate has fluctuated a lot up and down and I have just been making general observations with regards to rate long term graph. Also in the last few years most people thought the rate would never go up again and that the very low rate was the new norm or reality but now it's going up. So I'm making the assumption that anything is possible just like when the rate went up to 20% in the 80's. This is not to say it'll go up again that high but there's a possibility over the long term that the rate could go higher than 5% or 7%. Not so long ago like 7 or 8 years ago if I remember correctly the rate was about 7% or 8%.
 

adriano

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Even if rates get to 7% as you say that shouldn't make a difference on how your investments are doing. I mean rentals . I honestly don't think we are about see it hit 7% for quite awhile. You have to remember that it has taken 9 years for rates to finally go up slightly. Maybe it will go up some more but not a lot. Our economy would totally collapse if it goes up that fast.like you said it may go to 10% but the whole real estate market could also crash.
I personally prefer to look at the more positive side and make as much money in real estate as possible. I agree with Thomas if you feel that this going to happen you should sell and get out of the market
 

Matt Crowley

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@adriano or... banks will get bailed out, own a ton of real estate insured by CMHC (loan-to-own) and government will come out with funding to help homeowners not lose their homes and destroy their credit scores while their homes are underwater (I think that's called HARP).

7% interest rates will make a massive difference. I put together a quick spreadsheet to demonstrate (just download and view in Excel): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2xCJkvwQ4Y2azZyaUZGSmNmX0U
Go ahead and edit any yellow cells. The cash flow forecasts are based on what I am seeing in Edmonton / Calgary market for first sheet and Vancouver / Victoria market for second.

Cap rates for these smaller investments are getting really crushed right now and the weighting towards the property appreciation as a part of your return is getting heavier and heavier. At what point does one admit they are not investing and purely speculating that real estate prices go up forever?
 
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