Black Mold

[chrisleinweber]

I have owned a house with a JV Partner (non-rein member) for the last 2 years. No JV Partner agreement was drawn up (never again) as both were 50/50 in mtg., reno costs & work, etc. Due to the fact that I had bad credit 2 years ago & could not qualify for a toaster - I allowed my JV Partner to walk all over me. We were cash flowing over $600 a month. From day 1 we needed a new roof - my partner always insisted NO. I wanted to raise the rent - my partner said NO. So when she came to me in April 07 & wanted to sell I said NO - stuck to my guns. We would do an equity take out to free up cash. She would only allow our origional bank to do the second mtg.(her husband is a lawyer) - We were turned down. I asked to buy her out. She said NO - she was worried about selling it to me for appraised value - when the market could have given us more. So up For Sale it Went. Gave notice to renter - she left in 8 days. 3 months later no bites. I successfully put in an acceptable offer to her to purchase myself. My appraiser (Bob Huldane appraisers - Red Deer) found black mold behind the baseboards. Bank would not fund until an enviromental assessment was done to prove the problem is cleaned up. (I had a renter in place from June 28 - my possession date - today it is still vacant) We have had the environmental guys in 8 times so far. At the start the black mold was at 44 - everytime the enviro. guy came he would recomend something more to do. ie: visit 1 -take out carpet, visit 2 remove this wall, visit 3 paint floor & wash walls, visit 4 bathroom fixtures, etc. The basement is now almost gutted (a bedroom remains. On July 4 - I spent $10,000 to have a new roof put on and new flooring - after all it was going to be mine. Now I want my partner to pay for 1/2 of my expenses as the house has almost NO basement development. She said NO. She pays for nothing. I can live with that. Just want her gone. Now the mold has gone down to a 4 - even the enviro guy is not sure what more we can do. The newest suggestion is to check out the attic. Here is my BIG problem. My partner is bulling me to put the basement back together, put it up for sale & say "we had a mold problem & to the best of our ability we have cleaned it up." She feels there is no such thing as 0 black mold count. She WILL NOT allow the enviro. guys back in. She said "let the buyer get an enviro study done if they feel necessary." - she feels no one will question if all looks good. I WILL NOT sell an unhealthy house. I WILL NOT give this problem to a unknowing party. Besides FULL DISCLOSURE is still the law (I am a realtor also - I would loose my license)
Please give any imput you can. My JV partner is Still my friend so far.

 

[dplummer]

What is your enviro guy using as a base line for his spore count? How does the indoor count compare to the outdoor count? Spore counts can be open to interpretation of the one taking/reading the count. Remember mould is part of the natural plant life and as such spores will enter in & out of your home every time a window or door is open. Eliminate moisture intrusion into the building envelope, keep RH% below 50% & mould won`t grow. CMHC has a good article for homeowners on controling mould. Doug

 

[DonCampbell]

Hi,

Here is a link to the CMHC mold article:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/maho/yoho...mo/momo_005.cfm

Full disclosure is absolutely critical. The disclosure should include the many steps you have taken to mitigate the issue.

 

[gullonsd]

Chris: My son is a certified Mold/water remediationist. He has worked on numerous buildings such as yours. His answer is similar to the reply by Doug, What is the eco fellow using for a base line for the spore count? How many samples did he take and in what areas both inside and out? He agrees that spores float in and out of your house everytime the doors are opened and Relative humidity plays an important part in their growth so maintaining the water resistant envelope of the building is imperative. It sounds like you have done everything humanly possible to eliminate water intrusion. He also says that there is simply no such thing as a 0 mould spore count, well possible on the space shuttle where they have multitudes of filtration devices to keep the continiously circulated air well scrubbed.
He suggests that you check the furnace and see if that has been cleaned and serviced recently. By doing that the circulation of trapped spores will also be reduced dramatically. You might also think about getting an air scrubber running in there for 24 - 48 hours to clean up any errant spores. Your eco man should be able to get a clearance on the building even with the 4 ppm. Hope some of this helps if you already haven`t solved your problem.

 

[Zenon]

I realize your remediation work is already done, but for the benefit of others who may search on "mold" (or mould), we just went through a remediation as well, and we used a product called Concrobium. It`s available at Home Depot. It`s a totally different technology than you may be used to. Apparently bleach is NOT a great product for cleaning up a mold problem. Concrobium is a liquid, and it`s made up of natural salts. When the liquid dries, the salts trap, crush and kill the mold spores. The liquid leaves a light film that deters any future growth as well. It can also be fogged through a room or a whole house using a machine you can rent at the Depot as well. You can shoot it through the furnace ductwork too. Very cool, very easy and cost-effective. It`s relatively new, and invented and promoted by a Toronto-based company. Go Canadians!

I cannot vouch for the air quality counts changing from harmful to normal, but I can say that it was a key product in getting our place habitable again. We haven`t had the place tested (still debating going down that formal road). We just know that we couldn`t function for more than a few hours in the house before, and now it`s a perfectly normal "feeling" and smelling house. We can work there the full day and be no worse off from breathing the indoor air. Of course we also gutted many areas of the house and physically removed the existing mold, so that is critical to a full remediation as well. My mind is now at easy about renting the house to a family with kids, so the job is done to my satisfaction.

Anyone doing even basic cleaning, like kitchens and especially bathrooms, should seriously look at adding Concrobium to their toolbox. Tell your cleaners and property managers too. It`s worth a try.

And I have zero affiliation with the company. I`m just open to trying new and better products! Especially ones that can save me $10,000 in one shot!

 

[ToddStokowski]

Thank you for that information. It will be helpful to many of us.

Todd

 

[DonMaxwell]

Hopefully you are nearing the end of your mold issues.

I just finished a moisture control technician course that Alberta New Home Warranty set up with SAIT.

Have you found the origin of the problem? Of many possibilities, it could be cold air leaks into the basement causing low pressure downstairs and higher pressure upstairs. Any warm air leaking into your walls will condense in the cavities and if it can`t escape will sit and rot. Sometimes leaks can be as simple as holes in the vapour barrier around electrical outlets. In some houses the warm air follows the electrical wiring where it isn`t sealed.
Are your basement cold air ducts fully sealed? You need a closed system to circulate air efficiently (balanced air pressure also).

If your attic is poorly insulated, warm air hits the rafters and condenses causing rain

in your attic which may travel down the walls inside your building paper.

Thanks to all the others responding! I am looking at some properties that have a history of moisture issues. Pooling our info helps.