1/2 teant moving out. 2nd half staying...

[NorthernAlex]

Hello REiN Friends.

In my 3 BR apartment were two girls, who signed the actual rental agreement incl. First/Last.

Now, 2 years later, one boy friend is living in there, too.

One of the girls decided to move out and called me to ask how to proceed.

The other girl and her boy friend would like to stay, the girl who wants to leave would like to leave ASAP, but would be okay with 60 days notice.

Could I recommend this/ would it make sense:

1) She can move ASAP after thestaying girl and her boy friend agree to become tenant with new rental agreement and pay her the half last rent.

2) She has to wait 60 days if staying girl and boy friend doesn`t want to pay her 1/2 last

Do I miss something?

Side note question:
The boy friend is living now for a few months there, but he is not in the rental agreement and I don`t have ANY infos about him. Can I ask now for a new rental agreement or how do I approach here now.

If they (boy friend and staying girl) would split up, she couldn`t afford the 3 BR apartment.


Thank you for your input.

 

[invst4profit]

I believe I remember this situation from an earlier post of yours when the boyfriend first moved in.
At the time I suspected this would happen.

On the surface your plan is good.

The reality is in Ontario the resolution of the last month rent is strictly an issue between the tenants.
Providing the second tenant does remain and continues to pay the rent the one that wishes to leave may do so when ever she chooses. Tomorrow if she wants.
You have no recourse or involvement.
You may ask the remaining tenant and boyfriend to sign a new lease and do a search on the boyfriend.
However it is voluntary on there part. They do not have to agree and you have no authority to force them to do so.
If they do not sign a new lease you could attempt to evict based on the financial status of the remaining tenant but this is extremely difficult especially if she continues to pay the rent.

As soon as she is late with her rent or asks for a time extension immediately serve her with a N4 eviction notice. It could be the beginning of a long battle.

Good luck

 

[vandriani]

Excuse my ignorance but..

If both girls are on the lease and one leaves, isn`t that a breach of the lease contract? Therefore a new lease would have to drawn up with the remaining tenant and at that point the boyfriend could be added.

 

[invst4profit]

Not in Ontario.
In Ontario you could actually start with these two tenants on a lease and at some point end up with only the boyfriend, no lease, no back ground information and no recourse. It is conceivable if he paid in cash you may not even know his name. He could then move in another complete stranger and your only recourse would be to try and evict that newest person within 30 days of them moving in.

Here is the fun part. The boy friend, once he is the only tenant, could trash the place live there for 3 to 6 months rent free while you try and evict and you will have no recourse to recoup your loses because at no point would he ever have to identify himself.

 

[NorthernAlex]

I read that if girl friend leaves and boy friend stays in- I could use the A2 form "unauthorized occupancy" immediately, because I don`t have any documents. But still, 170$ starting process, maybe X00$ for Marshall aso.

The boy friend works for the city and she is in the nursery for elderly people employed- so hopefully everything will go smoothly.

Greg: Yes, you are right. That`s them I mentioned/wrote about a couple months ago in regards the higher expenses for water/hydro. They paid on time so far and everything was good since than.

Now my question, Greg:
If the girl leaves, lets say, 1st of August, 09, she did not give enough notice. I would ask boy friend and reminding girl for FULL rent, but they also would now own the last rent, as the other girl left. Right?

But, how does it work if she leaves after 60 day, giving notice, and asks me to get her 50% of last rent? Where do I get the other half? Of course the remaining couple, I think?

Here again my logic would cry out loud that I need a new rental agreement...

 

[invst4profit]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Jul 21 2009, 06:03 PM) I read that if girl friend leaves and boy friend stays in- I could use the A2 form "unauthorized occupancy" immediately, because I don`t have any documents. But still, 170$ starting process, maybe X00$ for Marshall aso.No you would have had to issued the A2 "unauthorized occupancy" back when he first moved in to your apartment. He is now a recognised tenant by the LTB. You can now not get rid of him.

The boy friend works for the city and she is in the nursery for elderly people employed- so hopefully everything will go smoothly.

Greg: Yes, you are right. That`s them I mentioned/wrote about a couple months ago in regards the higher expenses for water/hydro. They paid on time so far and everything was good since than.

Now my question, Greg:
If the girl leaves, lets say, 1st of August, 09, she did not give enough notice. I would ask boy friend and reminding girl for FULL rent, but they also would now own the last rent, as the other girl left. Right?


One person on a two person lease can not give notice. They can ask to sub let but to terminate the lease both would have to do so. In fact if the lease term is not up to give early notice is a violation of the lease.
As long as someone is paying the full rent every month who stays and who goes or when they go does not matter. They both remain responsible for the rent unless the lease changes. The payment of the rent is collectively there responsibility unless the lease agreement is set up in such a way that they are separately responsible for half.
The first of August, if you do not receive the full rent, you issue an N4 with the names of both girls on the notice form. It actually does not matter if one stays or goes she will forever be a tenant unless she asks you to allow her to sub let but let`s not go there now.
This is your leverage to convince the remaining tenant and boy friend to sign a new lease. Tell them it will prevent the other girl from returning some day with a boy friend of her own.


But, how does it work if she leaves after 60 day, giving notice, and asks me to get her 50% of last rent? Where do I get the other half? Of course the remaining couple, I think?


Assuming there is only one lease with two names there is officially NO halves of anything. In your eyes the two of them are actually one entity.
Tell her if she wants her money back she will have to get it from the other girl. In your eyes she remains a tenant until the others sign a new lease and as such you keep her last month. Again more leverage to get a new lease signed. Simply hold off on signing a new lease until you know she has received her money from the other one if you wish.



Here again my logic would cry out loud that I need a new rental agreement...

Correct but they must voluntarily agree to it or the existing lease stays in effect as is with the two girls as tenants.


In conclusion: Two tenants, one lease.

1) The girl leaving could ask you to accept a sub lease tenant in her place.
2) She could simply leave but will remain a tenant and responsible for the lease
3) Remaining tenants can agree to sign new lease releasing her from existing lease
4) You can agree to release her from existing lease which makes existing lease null and void but does not allow you to evict remaining tenants or force them to sign new lease.

Fun isn`t it.
The best for everyone is for remaining tenants to sign a new lease and let them work out the money among themselves. I would date it to expire the same date as the original lease
I see a problem with this but my suggestion would be for you to sit down with all three and work this out by explaining the legalities of the lease (leave out the part about sub letting) .

 

[eddyb1978]

Hi Alex,
i had somewhat of a similar situation 3 years ago when I bought a property and inherited the tenants with it.... 1 roommate was leaving and another was staying and a NEW person moving in to back fill...
Now given that we are in the wonderful province of Ontario where the pendulum is always swinging more and more towards tenants.... the name of the game becomes strategy, tactfulness and proactive approach...
I got very actively involved in sorting out this transaction while keeping everyone satisfied and explained to the tenants my intentions of doing so in order to create a fair and win/win approach to all...
I have given the tenant leaving 50% and got the new tenant moving in to pay that to me so we are neutral on the last month held....
Further more i had to use extreme diplomacy by promising NOT to raise their rent if they sign 1 year lease with me and this was a good selling point for me and allowed me to add the new person on the lease as well...

hope this experience helps...

Cheers,
Eddy

 

[NorthernAlex]

I will meet the girls next week to figure out a solution.

In a free minute I will have to sit down and draw out how much everyone would have to pay to whom, as I get a bit confused with the last rent and the amount. Since July 09 the rent was raised about the annual allowance.

Anyhow, thank you Greg for your explanations, helped a lot. Eddy, yes I agree, the best thing is to sit down and give options/solutions like Greg mentioned.

Meanwhile boy friend and girl are having thoughts of leaving, too, which I don`t have any issues with it as it would help me to get the apartment to todays rent standard. The girl was living there now in her 5th year there and I did the first rent increase....

 

[invst4profit]

It does sound like it would be best if they all left rent wise. Good luck.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Just a short feed back about this topic, which is now solved.

We worked out, that they will release the girl, who is leaving, and that we will make a new rental agreement with the same conditions like the old one, but now with the staying couple.

 

[invst4profit]

Congratulations.

 

[eddyb1978]

Congrats Alex...

Cheers,
Eddy