Absolutly INSANE hydro bill

[willy]

So, I`m thinking that if that house has the old style hydro meter with the wheel that turns, it`s spinning pretty good. What I`d do, some afternoon when I`ve got some time, is go to the breaker box, turn off a breaker, check the wheel to see if it`s slowed noticably. If not, flip the breaker back on, move to the next one, and the next, until you find one that makes a big difference. Once you find the one that slows the wheel considerably, wander around the house to see what that breaker controls. Doesn`t solve your problem, but narrows it down quite a bit. A bit of investigative work from there may offer the answer.
An electrician can do a very similar thing, using an amp meter, at considerably more cost to you.

Just a thought.

 

[hotbunz4]

QUOTE (willy @ Jul 21 2010, 09:48 PM)
So, I'm thinking that if that house has the old style hydro meter with the wheel that turns, it's spinning pretty good. What I'd do, some afternoon when I've got some time, is go to the breaker box, turn off a breaker, check the wheel to see if it's slowed noticably. If not, flip the breaker back on, move to the next one, and the next, until you find one that makes a big difference. Once you find the one that slows the wheel considerably, wander around the house to see what that breaker controls. Doesn't solve your problem, but narrows it down quite a bit. A bit of investigative work from there may offer the answer.

An electrician can do a very similar thing, using an amp meter, at considerably more cost to you.



Just a thought.




That is a great idea!

 

[BrianPersaud]

QUOTE (AdamBlackmore @ Jul 7 2010, 07:51 PM) Hello all!! Have a rather stressful issue here.

Purchased a property a couple months ago. I am living in basement and there are two people upstairs and there is a shared kitchen. Utilties are in my name. First bill came in today and hydro from Apr 15th-Jun 8th was $502.90 before taxes. Yes, that is JUST hydro. 4368 KWh for 54 days!! Over 80 kWh a day!!

Another rental I own in same city with same company came in at $102 for same time period.

This $502 bill (Before tax!) for 54 days comes from a 1,550 sq ft home that is heated by natural gas. It has a new a/c unit but I used it very sparingly. Generally not used but if it was it was off during the day when everyone was at work, on for a couple hours after work and off before bed.
Other big electricity appliances are:
- One relatively new stove,
- 3 fridges which are all fairly new
- 2 large LCD TV`s and one 27 inch CRT TV
- Two large stereos
- an electric water heater
-newer dryer/washer.
- small 15x21 heated workshop that is newer and insulated that is heated by electricity, but thermostat was off (Not that it would have needed a lot of heat in late spring anyway).
-No hot tub, no pool, no dishwasher, no fancy outdoor light set up, only three people in house.

Am told by hydro company that this property has been a huge energy user for a while and was actually more in winter running at $450/month just for hydro (heated garage?). These tenants were here then as well. Again, they have a couple big TV`s and like to blare music, but nothing over the top. I am conservative in my own use.

Cannot figure out where this massive electricity drain is coming from. I wouldn`t even expect this from this house if heated by electricity in dead of winter. My first move I think will be to get an energy audit, but can they help? The only "out of norm" this property has is electric workshop, but it was off and weather was warm regardless.

Any ideas/solutions? Am baffled on how bill could be so high.

Do you have a smart meter? If not it could be a catch up bill. Utility companies may not have been reading your meter frequently. What could have happened is that they have estimated low and you are getting a catch up for what you actually used.

or re-read the meter, they have put in an incorrect reading.

 

[koop]

QUOTE (willy @ Jul 21 2010, 08:48 PM)
So, I'm thinking that if that house has the old style hydro meter with the wheel that turns, it's spinning pretty good. What I'd do, some afternoon when I've got some time, is go to the breaker box, turn off a breaker, check the wheel to see if it's slowed noticably. If not, flip the breaker back on, move to the next one, and the next, until you find one that makes a big difference. Once you find the one that slows the wheel considerably, wander around the house to see what that breaker controls. Doesn't solve your problem, but narrows it down quite a bit. A bit of investigative work from there may offer the answer.

An electrician can do a very similar thing, using an amp meter, at considerably more cost to you.



Just a thought.




Or you could get your own multi-meter and do it yourself. But this is probably the best idea there is, then you will see exactly where the power is being used.



You could even just find the circuit thats the problem and just shut it off, see if you find anything isn't working and who complains

 

[BrianPersaud]

QUOTE (willy @ Jul 21 2010, 09:48 PM) So, I`m thinking that if that house has the old style hydro meter with the wheel that turns, it`s spinning pretty good. What I`d do, some afternoon when I`ve got some time, is go to the breaker box, turn off a breaker, check the wheel to see if it`s slowed noticably. If not, flip the breaker back on, move to the next one, and the next, until you find one that makes a big difference. Once you find the one that slows the wheel considerably, wander around the house to see what that breaker controls. Doesn`t solve your problem, but narrows it down quite a bit. A bit of investigative work from there may offer the answer.
An electrician can do a very similar thing, using an amp meter, at considerably more cost to you.

Just a thought.

Meters are more likely slow down as they get older.

 

[koop]

QUOTE (BrianPersaud @ Jul 22 2010, 02:20 PM) Meters are more likely slow down as they get older.

I don`t think he ment the meter is faulty, just that one of his circuits in the house is running a little "hot" and this would be a way to find which one it is.

 

[AdamBlackmore]

Hey all,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you in terms of my findings. I expected a large hydro bill, due to a/c, ineffecient windows, multiple fridges, etc, but the bill seemed much higher than anticipated.

An electrician has said it is likely due to the electric water heater. I had no idea electric water heaters were so brutal!!! The below example is a rough example he gave me of power run down. WAter heater power a bit exaggerated, but seems likely the water heater is responsible for about a third of my bill. Will look into converting to gas water heater. Also, teaches me a lesson about asking for utilities bills. Can always have tenants pay them, but would definitly feel guilty doing that if I know certain things are wildly ineffecient. Below e-mail from local electrician.


I would recommend switching to a gas stove, gas water heater, and getting rid of the A/C if possible. Big screen TVs and fridges are also going to be large power consumers, since they are running either very often or all the time. Big screens in particular draw a lot of power, and if you note sudden increases in meter activity, it may be that one or more fridge compressors, along with one or more tvs are turning on simultaneously. Your biggest draw will probably be the water heater. Electric water heating is very inefficient and costly.Example:2 big screens: 260 Watts + 300 Watts1 regular screen: 140 Watts3 fridges: 800 Watts + 550 Watts + 650 Watts1 electric water heater: 5500 Watts or 5.5 kWTotal Watts: 8200, or 8.2 kWIf these items run an average of; 12 hours per day on the water heater, 4 hours per day on each tv, and 16 hours each day on each fridge:Water heater: 5.5kW x 12 hrs = 66 kWh/dayTelevisions: 0.7 kW x 4 hrs = 2.8 kWh/day Fridges: 2 kW x 16 hrs = 32 kWh/daySo, on a heavy usage day, it`s easy to see where your power consumption is coming from--just these items add up to around 100 kWh per day, and that doesn`t include lights, fans, other appliances, etc.Hope this helps. Good luck with your properties!
Anyone with electricity knowledge find electric water heaters can end up being a disproporiate part of your bill?

THanks for all the advice!!!

 

[terri]

has anyone ever heard of a commercial coin op dryer drawing more electricity than a regular dryer?
I have a 4 plex where tenants pay their own hydro and all I pay is laundry and lights in the basement, hallway and front door. The hallway and exterior lights are on motion detectors and timers so they can`t be drawing that much. The basement lights are all florescent so even if they were left on for long periods of time, they wouldn`t draw that much.

The only other thing I can think of is the washer/dryer.

The hydro bills for this are almost as much as my triplexes where I pay everything including 3 washer/ 3 dryers, 3 dishwashers, and air conditioning.

The electrical work was done recently so I know that the apts are not on this circuit and I`ve check the time of use so I know that during the night time there are long periods of zero draw.

Is it possible that the a commercial dryer could use that much more power?

I guess I will have to talk to my electrician about it.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Teri
A few thoughts:
Tenants might have disabled the coin slots and machines are receiving excessive use
There might be something wrong with the meter and it needs to be checked
There might be plugs on your meter that tenants are hooking up items to - tons of possibilities but maybe pressing t-shirts, tools charging etc..
There might be some part of a unit wired to your meter

 

[terri]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Aug 14 2010, 11:42 AM) Hi Teri
A few thoughts:
Tenants might have disabled the coin slots and machines are receiving excessive use
There might be something wrong with the meter and it needs to be checked
There might be plugs on your meter that tenants are hooking up items to - tons of possibilities but maybe pressing t-shirts, tools charging etc..
There might be some part of a unit wired to your meter



The electrical is all new and was checked recently.

The hydro usage has not changed since I purchased the property in 2007 even though the tenants have so that would indicate that no one is stealing hydro or disabling the machine because the usage has been consistant throughout. Even if they did plug in an iron, it wouldn`t add that much to the bill (compared with the properies where I`m paying for everything including a/c).

The building in question is only a few blocks from my house and across the street from 2 other properties that I own and I use the basement to store things so I`m over there all the time and I`ve never seen anything unusual.

I`m going to see if hydro can come out and check the meter and I`ll see if my electrician can go over everything again. It`s not out of control, but I just find it odd that it`s not that much cheaper than my inclusive properties. At least it`s coin laundry so I can calculate the number of times in a month the dryer is being used. I guess that`s a good place to start.



thanks,

Terri

 

[housingrental]

The only other thought I have beyond my above list would be is it possible that a neighboring property is using your electricity?

 

[terri]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Aug 15 2010, 08:06 AM) The only other thought I have beyond my above list would be is it possible that a neighboring property is using your electricity?

I don`t think so, it`s a completely detached property and I can see the conduit coming into the basement and follow the lines out of the panel.

My electrians are working across the street this week so I will pick their brains and have them take a look at it again for me.
If they come up with anything interesting, I`ll post it.

T

 

[ontariolandlord]

Always rent "exclusive" of utilities.

And make sure the tenants put the account into their own names prior to you giving them the key.

 

[jwilbrin]

QUOTE (terri @ Aug 13 2010, 07:21 PM) Is it possible that the a commercial dryer could use that much more power?

Yes, it most certainly can. A poorly vented dryer or dryer not operating correctly can drastically increase your electrical bill.

Just this past spring one of my tenants called about the high efficiency dryer in their unit not working properly. It was blowing warm air but for some reason was not drying their clothes. They had to run the dryer 2 to 3 times to dry just one load of laundry. As a result their electrical bill for that month doubled. My first question was "Why didn`t you call me sooner!!" Aside from costing them a lot of money it was a major fire hazard. The problem was the flap on the vent cover outside had broken off and a bird had built a big nest in the dryer vent blocking the air flow. Once the blockage was removed the dryer worked beautifully and their electrical bill went back to normal.

Poor airflow will reduce the efficiency of your dryer which means longer dry times costing you more money.

1. check to make sure your dryer`s heating element is actually working properly. Run the dryer for a few minutes; open the door and feel the temperature inside. It should be very warm in there; if it`s not there may be a problem with the element -- call an appliance technician.

2. Check the airflow: run the dryer then go outside to see if you can feel warm air being exhausted out of the exterior vent. If you feel no air or very little air there is either a blockage or the dryer vent has become disconnected somewhere along the line.
Have a furnace cleaning company clean the dryer duct to remove any obstructions. Birds nests are very common which is why you should always ensure you have a flap on the vent.

3. Check the length of the dryer vent. Remember that a dryer should not be vented more than 25 - 30 feet. Beyond that it is completely ineffective. The shorter and more direct the exhaust is to the exterior the better. Also consider how many elbows are in the vent line. The more elbows the less effective -- an elbow in the vent line is like adding an additional 10 feet.

 

[REINteam]

Regarding the OP situation and the electric hot water tank - My current primary residence has no gas services, the gas company never ran the lines up the mountain so everything in my house is electric, including the hot water heater.

So, family of 4, one tenant in my basement suite, kids home all day with nanny, hot water heater probably running a lot with (3 adult showers, dish washer, 2 kid baths, dog baths, lord knows how much laundry...probably 2 loads a day minimum, electric range used daily, 2 1000 watt microwaves, heat and a/c via geothermal...but still electric, 2 large freezers, one all fridge, one fridge/freezer combo, one small wine fridge, fans, lights and in the winter the hot tub - which is old and I`m sure ineffecient, and the list goes on! House is 2500 sqft I believe, including suite downstairs.

Our electric bill in BC is currently $119/month on one of those even pay programs. Was $141 last year, not exactly sure why, and more the year before when I had the hot tub going on a more regular basis.

What have we done to be more efficient? Lights are primarily CFL`s, water heater is only 2 years old...so more efficient model, and yes, we have geothermal so that helps as does our locale vs somewhere like Edmonton where the furnace runs for longer/year.

So, from my perspective, our electric hot water heater has been fine and works like a charm. And keep in mind, we only pay electric as there is no gas to the house, electric everything.

 

[DaveL]

QUOTE (REINteam @ Aug 18 2010, 09:43 AM) Regarding the OP situation and the electric hot water tank - My current primary residence has no gas services, the gas company never ran the lines up the mountain so everything in my house is electric, including the hot water heater.

So, family of 4, one tenant in my basement suite, kids home all day with nanny, hot water heater probably running a lot with (3 adult showers, dish washer, 2 kid baths, dog baths, lord knows how much laundry...probably 2 loads a day minimum, electric range used daily, 2 1000 watt microwaves, heat and a/c via geothermal...but still electric, 2 large freezers, one all fridge, one fridge/freezer combo, one small wine fridge, fans, lights and in the winter the hot tub - which is old and I`m sure ineffecient, and the list goes on! House is 2500 sqft I believe, including suite downstairs.

Our electric bill in BC is currently $119/month on one of those even pay programs. Was $141 last year, not exactly sure why, and more the year before when I had the hot tub going on a more regular basis.

What have we done to be more efficient? Lights are primarily CFL`s, water heater is only 2 years old...so more efficient model, and yes, we have geothermal so that helps as does our locale vs somewhere like Edmonton where the furnace runs for longer/year.

So, from my perspective, our electric hot water heater has been fine and works like a charm. And keep in mind, we only pay electric as there is no gas to the house, electric everything.

Ray,

I have a new house in Surrey 2650 sq/ft with a 2bdr suite below. My house is all electric and my bills is around $200/month... I wish I was only at 140! We are a family of 4 and our tenants have a little one with another on the way...

 

[terri]

QUOTE (REINteam @ Aug 18 2010, 09:43 AM) Regarding the OP situation and the electric hot water tank - My current primary residence has no gas services, the gas company never ran the lines up the mountain so everything in my house is electric, including the hot water heater.

So, family of 4, one tenant in my basement suite, kids home all day with nanny, hot water heater probably running a lot with (3 adult showers, dish washer, 2 kid baths, dog baths, lord knows how much laundry...probably 2 loads a day minimum, electric range used daily, 2 1000 watt microwaves, heat and a/c via geothermal...but still electric, 2 large freezers, one all fridge, one fridge/freezer combo, one small wine fridge, fans, lights and in the winter the hot tub - which is old and I`m sure ineffecient, and the list goes on! House is 2500 sqft I believe, including suite downstairs.

Our electric bill in BC is currently $119/month on one of those even pay programs. Was $141 last year, not exactly sure why, and more the year before when I had the hot tub going on a more regular basis.

What have we done to be more efficient? Lights are primarily CFL`s, water heater is only 2 years old...so more efficient model, and yes, we have geothermal so that helps as does our locale vs somewhere like Edmonton where the furnace runs for longer/year.

So, from my perspective, our electric hot water heater has been fine and works like a charm. And keep in mind, we only pay electric as there is no gas to the house, electric everything.

That sounds amazingly cheap considering there is no gas service. Is it possible that you have a really good rate? Do rate and distribution charges differ drastically from province to province? Do you have time of use rates?

Do you know what the actually monthly usage is?

We`re on "time of use" rates and the peak times change from winter summer so the actual amount billed does not always directly correlate to the amount used.

 

[REINteam]

So I took down the info from my electric bill this month, here are the rates and charges so you can compare:

July 09 - August 09 (date, not year)
basic charge: 33 days @ 0.13410/day $4.43
Usage Charges
Step 1: 732 kWh @ 0.06270 $45.90
Step 2: 561 k@h @ 0.08780 $49.26
rate rider @ 4% $3.98
HST $12.43
Residential energy credit $7.25 CR

Total: $108.75

This is the even pay program, so the bill is $119 every month...and I have no clue what the residential energy credit is. Hope this helps, average monthly usage for August was 39 kWh