Am I the only one a little concerned

[wgraham]

There is undoubtedly a lot of enthusiasm out there right now regarding Legrand style deals. I think that it was great of the REIN team to bring him in and show REIN members how to be creative with Real Estate. I am using a few of the skills taught and have seen the light of a few deals that I didn`t know how to do before.

Here is my concern.....the skills taught by Ron are advanced skills. Not used correctly you could find yourself holding the exact problem that you thought you were solving very very quickly.

I saw the dollar signs flashing in peoples eyes (this is always a warning sign for me) and you have to admire Ron`s skill when it comes to sales but when doing these sorts of deals you HAD BETTER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If you haven`t done a single deal yet and think that you can pull off a much more complicated deal I would step back and ask some very very hard questions. This could be a very short life for you in the RE Investment world. There are some big sharks swimming in this pool and if you are a small fish......

So I don`t mean to throw water on the fire out there but I do want to ask REIN members to think long and hard about the "deals" they are finding. Yes, people do strange things and every once in a while people will just give you $200k but usually there is a lot more behind the scenes and you should have your eyes wide open and make sure you are not blinded by the $$$!

Remember to assess the worst case scenario and make sure you can swallow it before you proceed.

Good luck out there and happy investing,
Wade

 

[RedlineBrett]

Excellent post. A big +1 here

 

[ZanderRobertson]

It`s true. When RLG asked everyone who`d been successful from his previous seminars to come up and discuss their success, there were about 8 people who came to stage.

I`m not sure how many people were at his 2003 event in Canada, but I`m sure it was at least a couple of hundred. So 8/200 = 4%.

Then again; what is it that Peter Kinch says, only 2% of the population owns more than 3 rental properties? It`s always going to be the minority to follow through, the minority who succeed, the minority of sellers who`ll give away 30,000-200,000 in equity, the minority who make quick turn REI work, and the minority who make buy-and-hold REI work.

Ron Legrand makes it sound easy when he presents it on stage; but didn`t he say it took him about 10 years to really "get it". Didn`t he also say that most of the attendees would head out into the real world and "make a big mess of it".

Thanks Wade and Brett; I agree, everyone needs to think each deal through and put the ducks in a row.

Tony Peters said essentially the same in another post, and he`s putting on a seminar next weekend which will discuss creative RE investing. I encourage everyone to attend as it will be a good follow up and addition to our knowledge of the quick turn business. Then again, REIN is putting on a seminar about by-and-hold RE investing (It`s called ACRE weekend, has anyone heard of it?) Decisions, decisions!

Zander

 

[ChrisDavies]

I`ll add to the comments above, it`s a difficult part of the real estate field, and absolutely for advanced investors.

Zander makes a good point about the coming ACRE weekend that I think is a well timed comment. For me the RLG stuff is a distraction, and I think some people are over-enthusiastic.

 

[EdRenkema]

QUOTE (wgraham @ Oct 30 2009, 10:22 AM) There is undoubtedly a lot of enthusiasm out there right now regarding Legrand style deals. I think that it was great of the REIN team to bring him in and show REIN members how to be creative with Real Estate. I am using a few of the skills taught and have seen the light of a few deals that I didn`t know how to do before.

Here is my concern.....the skills taught by Ron are advanced skills. Not used correctly you could find yourself holding the exact problem that you thought you were solving very very quickly.

I saw the dollar signs flashing in peoples eyes (this is always a warning sign for me) and you have to admire Ron`s skill when it comes to sales but when doing these sorts of deals you HAD BETTER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If you haven`t done a single deal yet and think that you can pull off a much more complicated deal I would step back and ask some very very hard questions. This could be a very short life for you in the RE Investment world. There are some big sharks swimming in this pool and if you are a small fish......

So I don`t mean to throw water on the fire out there but I do want to ask REIN members to think long and hard about the "deals" they are finding. Yes, people do strange things and every once in a while people will just give you $200k but usually there is a lot more behind the scenes and you should have your eyes wide open and make sure you are not blinded by the $$$!

Remember to assess the worst case scenario and make sure you can swallow it before you proceed.

Good luck out there and happy investing,
Wade

Good points Wade, and I`ll add to that, a lot more time was spent on how to aquire the properties and less time on how to get out of them, it was covered just not as well or in enough detail in my mind.

 

[ZuzanaHaska]

QUOTE (wgraham @ Oct 30 2009, 11:22 AM) There is undoubtedly a lot of enthusiasm out there right now regarding Legrand style deals. I think that it was great of the REIN team to bring him in and show REIN members how to be creative with Real Estate. I am using a few of the skills taught and have seen the light of a few deals that I didn`t know how to do before.

Here is my concern.....the skills taught by Ron are advanced skills. Not used correctly you could find yourself holding the exact problem that you thought you were solving very very quickly.

I saw the dollar signs flashing in peoples eyes (this is always a warning sign for me) and you have to admire Ron`s skill when it comes to sales but when doing these sorts of deals you HAD BETTER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If you haven`t done a single deal yet and think that you can pull off a much more complicated deal I would step back and ask some very very hard questions. This could be a very short life for you in the RE Investment world. There are some big sharks swimming in this pool and if you are a small fish......

So I don`t mean to throw water on the fire out there but I do want to ask REIN members to think long and hard about the "deals" they are finding. Yes, people do strange things and every once in a while people will just give you $200k but usually there is a lot more behind the scenes and you should have your eyes wide open and make sure you are not blinded by the $$!

Remember to assess the worst case scenario and make sure you can swallow it before you proceed.

Good luck out there and happy investing,
Wade

AMEN!
Wade, you spoke like a real "pro". These wise words must be heard, before anyone attempts to venture into some complex real estate deals. Remember - baby steps.

Take care,
Zuzana Haska

P.S.
In today`s Herald - SWERVE magazine is very well written article - My little house of horrors.
This should be a required read for all investors.

 

[DragonflyProperties]

I agree with Wade 100%. Based on the posts I`ve seen there are a lot of "seminar grads" (as Don would say) on the loose.

Keith

 

[housingrental]

Thank you for witting that Wade
This is the best post I`ve seen written ever

QUOTE (wgraham @ Oct 30 2009, 12:22 PM) There is undoubtedly a lot of enthusiasm out there right now regarding Legrand style deals. I think that it was great of the REIN team to bring him in and show REIN members how to be creative with Real Estate. I am using a few of the skills taught and have seen the light of a few deals that I didn`t know how to do before.

Here is my concern.....the skills taught by Ron are advanced skills. Not used correctly you could find yourself holding the exact problem that you thought you were solving very very quickly.

I saw the dollar signs flashing in peoples eyes (this is always a warning sign for me) and you have to admire Ron`s skill when it comes to sales but when doing these sorts of deals you HAD BETTER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If you haven`t done a single deal yet and think that you can pull off a much more complicated deal I would step back and ask some very very hard questions. This could be a very short life for you in the RE Investment world. There are some big sharks swimming in this pool and if you are a small fish......

So I don`t mean to throw water on the fire out there but I do want to ask REIN members to think long and hard about the "deals" they are finding. Yes, people do strange things and every once in a while people will just give you $200k but usually there is a lot more behind the scenes and you should have your eyes wide open and make sure you are not blinded by the $$!

Remember to assess the worst case scenario and make sure you can swallow it before you proceed.

Good luck out there and happy investing,
Wade

 

[TodorYordanov]

Isn`t this true for any type of real estate investing?

Due dilligence, having multiple solid exit strategies, running it as a business, avoiding deals beyond one`s competence or comfort level, etc. etc., etc. are all things that Ron was talking about and more.

I did not see one sentence in his seminar where he was preaching on being reckless or unethical. Quite the opposite. In his own words he said that it took him 5 years to fix the mess he created in his first year. And then he will talk on and on on how to do it properly.

And that is the key, whatever you do, learn to do it properly.

Best of luck to all.

 

[gwasser]

I fully agree with Wade. These deals of Ron need quite a bit of experience. Not only that, if you have trouble following the REIN system of going through a large number of listings and even writing several offers before finding the right deal, then you will have even more trouble finding a Ron LeGrand deal.

I found Ron LeGrands introductory speech at the REIN workshop enlightning. It opened my eyes and let me look at real estate from a different angle. And maybe... , maybe there will come a time and opportunity where I actually may go with VTB and/or an agreement for sale. To know that by that time there will be legal experts at REIN such as Barry that have done paperwork for such deal gives me even more comfort.

However, there is no way, I will dive into this stuff head-over-heels.

 

[GaryMcGowan]

There will be some that fully embrace what was taught and some that don`t. I like to think that I fully embraced it. However we were already using some of the things that Ron teaches. For example : Rent to Own = Seller Financing, VTbs... What I found most useful was how to located properties and motivated sellers outside of the MLS (yellow letter).
With what Ron and REIN teaches it is a very strong education that we plan on using to our advantage to the fullest. It is a great fit for US but it might not be for others. Comfort level is important here.

Wade`s comments are very important and are not to taken lightly. In anything you do you need to be committed or it simply will not work.
Make the right choice for your business.

 

[neill]

QUOTE (GaryMcGowan @ Oct 31 2009, 03:44 PM) There will be some that fully embrace what was taught and some that don`t. I like to think that I fully embraced it. However we were already using some of the things that Ron teaches. For example : Rent to Own = Seller Financing, VTbs... What I found most useful was how to located properties and motivated sellers outside of the MLS (yellow letter).
With what Ron and REIN teaches it is a very strong education that we plan on using to our advantage to the fullest. It is a great fit for US but it might not be for others. Comfort level is important here.

Wade`s comments are very important and are not to taken lightly. In anything you do you need to be committed or it simply will not work.
Make the right choice for your business.

I agree, Gary - I have this feeling we will rarely buy a property at retail market value from here on for our buy and hold, unless it has some AFS advantage for us..... or absolutely fits the bill.

 

[David Chien]

Well said! However, I think what Ron teaches is another tool for us to close a deal. Some one said that our job is like a plumber, looking at what tool to use in solving a problem.
REIN has shown us a lot of different tools, including one from RLG. Its up to us to assess different situation we face and how to solve them in a win-win manner instead of just looking for problems that will fit into RLG` s method.

David

 

[vandriani]

This is a great thread!

First, I have not attended Ron`s seminars and my comments/questions are solely based on the threads on this site.

I have been following most of the threads pertaining to this Ron`s teachings on this site. I have had one question that has stuck with me for about a week now.

Is the Return on Investment, Return on Energy and Return on Time going to be better or worse than spending the time to attract JV partners and continue with buy and hold?

It appears that there is a great amount of work finding prospects with minimal results. I ask that those of you that have completely engaged yourself with this system keep us posted as to your progress.

To me, at this time, I am approaching this subject in the same respect as reading books, 90% filler and 10% golden gem.

 

[JohnSoucie]

QUOTE (vandriani @ Nov 2 2009, 05:01 PM) This is a great thread!

First, I have not attended Ron`s seminars and my comments/questions are solely based on the threads on this site.

I have been following most of the threads pertaining to this Ron`s teachings on this site. I have had one question that has stuck with me for about a week now.

Is the Return on Investment, Return on Energy and Return on Time going to be better or worse than spending the time to attract JV partners and continue with buy and hold?

It appears that there is a great amount of work finding prospects with minimal results. I ask that those of you that have completely engaged yourself with this system keep us posted as to your progress.

To me, at this time, I am approaching this subject in the same respect as reading books, 90% filler and 10% golden gem.

Hi Vince;

I`ll take a stab at an answer for you. I think one thing Ron does very well is change peoples mindset into a "Millionaires Mindset". For example he will constantly ask a question like "would you spend $1000 to make $25,000?". Well that`s the basis behind the yellow letter campaign. You only need to do one good deal to pay for lots of marketting. You fill the funnel with as many leads as possible and hopefully one or two drops of gold comes out the bottom of the funnel. That`s the mindset he wants people to develop. Not "it`s so much work and expenses and I ONLY bought one property from it all".

After that one property, how much are you ahead when he tells you right off that for retail pretty house deals he doesn`t want you to buy anything that won`t turn a $20K profit minimum, and $10K minimum wholesaling junkers. It`s Quickturn Real Estate....you make/know your profit when buying. If the profit isn`t there, it`s simple, you don`t buy it. Potential appreciation isn`t factored in like in buy and hold.

John

 

[BarryMcGuire]

Let me add my voice to the chorus, great post by Wade! Useful and valid points by other posters. Let`s emphasize and discuss some of those points further:
1. `Quick Turn` investing in its various forms is a `senior strategy`.

2. Don`t start your real estate investing career with a senior strategy. Stick with something a little more basic. Find a buy and hold property that is positive cash flow and manage the heck out of it. Do that a couple or three times.

3. I say, and I know the REIN team says, "it takes time to get good at anything". Once you understand the basics of real estate investing then you can dip your toe in the water of Quick Turn and senior strategies.

4. After the Ron LeGrand event, the calls and e-mails have been coming in. Lots of questions and scenarios from lots of REIN members, mostly SENIOR REIN members. It is immediately obvious to me from those calls and e-mails that there is, even amongst senior REIN members, lots of confusion. That is completely understandable. Senior or not, stop me if you`ve heard this one before, new strategies take time to learn! Baby steps are good. Ask lots of questions.

5. Lots of my calls are on the `Agreement for Sale` (AFS). What exactly is it, how does it work, is it the same as a wrap, how do you write a deal using the AFS concept, how do I explain it to a seller, how do you write up the paperwork for the closing?

Of all Ron`s strategies I think using an AFS has the broadest range of applicability for REIN members. In Alberta especially, it`s very useful for selling your own properties, for buying properties with a seller who is receptive to offering seller financing, for taking over negative or no equity properties, for helping sellers get out of low equity properties with a few dollars in their jeans, and for helping sellers who just want out, don`t want to pay off their mortgage and don`t care much about their equity.

6. Am still working with B.C. and Ontario lawyers to figure out how or if the AFS concept works in those provinces and will post on that as soon as I have more information.

Hope this helps,

Barry

 

[JessHunt]

thanks to Wade and all of the posters for this timely discussion. While it may not end the confusion it certainly helps put it into perspective. During a conference with one of Ron`s assistants, she asked if I was interested in the Master`s program. I told her I need time to digest this information and put it into practice. I appreciated her next comment. She recommended that I listen to the tapes at least 3 times before putting it into practice. Thanks again for the sensible perspective you have shed in regards to the program, and I look forward to reading of the successes others attain.

 

[tonypeters]

Wade, Some truly great advice for your fellow REIN members! This is the same advice I have been echoing since before Ron`s event. As I have stated before, you need to be extremely careful as there are many landmines out there. You must also be prepared to "adapt" and make "changes", because we do things a little different up here.

All the BEST!

QUOTE (wgraham @ Oct 30 2009, 10:22 AM) There is undoubtedly a lot of enthusiasm out there right now regarding Legrand style deals. I think that it was great of the REIN team to bring him in and show REIN members how to be creative with Real Estate. I am using a few of the skills taught and have seen the light of a few deals that I didn`t know how to do before.

Here is my concern.....the skills taught by Ron are advanced skills. Not used correctly you could find yourself holding the exact problem that you thought you were solving very very quickly.

I saw the dollar signs flashing in peoples eyes (this is always a warning sign for me) and you have to admire Ron`s skill when it comes to sales but when doing these sorts of deals you HAD BETTER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If you haven`t done a single deal yet and think that you can pull off a much more complicated deal I would step back and ask some very very hard questions. This could be a very short life for you in the RE Investment world. There are some big sharks swimming in this pool and if you are a small fish......

So I don`t mean to throw water on the fire out there but I do want to ask REIN members to think long and hard about the "deals" they are finding. Yes, people do strange things and every once in a while people will just give you $200k but usually there is a lot more behind the scenes and you should have your eyes wide open and make sure you are not blinded by the $$$!

Remember to assess the worst case scenario and make sure you can swallow it before you proceed.

Good luck out there and happy investing,
Wade