Beating wife? Quick help requested.

[NorthernAlex]

Wow, what a day.
I was called a minute ago from a tenant to inform me that she was beaten last night by her husband. Police came and asked him to leave for 24h`s.

She asked me if I could come and change the locks because she does not want him to come back.

I bought the building and inherited them as tenants without any rent agreement, but just a confirmed statement (signed by tenant) showing them BOTH as tenants. On the other hand she says that she has a rental agreement showing her as the only tenant- without her husband.

How should I proceed? Letting her change the lock? I certainly am not interested in getting involved in any internal action. The other tenants did already complain about him and I would be really happy to have him out of there (troublemaker).

Your opinion is highly appreciated!

 

[Thomas Beyer]

Four options really:

a) doing nothing is an option !

b) changing the locks and giving her the keys only is an option too .. with the risk that he becomes even more angry and trashes the door or windows .. and may take you to court aledging he is still a tenant (albeit unlikely)

c) getting rid of BOTH of them is an option too .. although legally it is tough

d) signing a new lease agreement with JUST HER is an option too .. in combination with option 2 perhaps !

a) or d) are probably the best options here for this very messy situation !

 

[thejules]

There is a form on the LTB website for criminal activity as well as the N5 for nuisance. But the Tenant that was assaulted really has to provide the police with a statement & he has to be charged. This is the frustrating part. If the Tenant is not reporting the assault then the Police are really not empowered to remove the guy from the property. I hope that helps...

 

[NorthernAlex]

Thomas & Jules, thank you very much for your feed back. Regarding the provided information I did this:

- The locks were changed now for 24h`s for her safety and will be changed permanently if she can provide a police report /statement about the incident

- I requested to see the mentioned original rental agreement with her and previous owner (after the 24h she couldnt find it so fast)

I don`t trust her statement that she want to get divorced from him- she is not trustworthy and might change her opinion- FMPOV.

 

[Merriora]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Mar 28 2009, 05:56 PM) Thomas & Jules, thank you very much for your feed back. Regarding the provided information I did this:

- The locks were changed now for 24h`s for her safety and will be changed permanently if she can provide a police report /statement about the incident

- I requested to see the mentioned original rental agreement with her and previous owner (after the 24h she couldnt find it so fast)

I don`t trust her statement that she want to get divorced from him- she is not trustworthy and might change her opinion- FMPOV.

If she was assaulted by her husband and told the truth to police, then he should have been charged for Domestic Assault. As a result, he would have recieved conditions of No Contact (female) and No Go to the residence which makes your decision to change the locks easy. However, if she didn`t tell the truth to Police (which often happens) and there was no visible marks, then he would not have been charged. In the end, there is obviously a domestic situation which requires one of them not to be in the house. If you change the locks and the husband returns to continue the fight, then at least others will know (banging on the door) and can re-call police so that they can re-attend and help mediate the situation.

 

[NorthernAlex]

I was excepting something like this: Dropped by there this morning to ask for the original rental agreement.
Guess, who opened the door. The husband. She came to the door too and I mentioned if they sorted out their difficulties. They didn`t, but they will go to counseling.

She didnt find the agreement and he said that she would not give him the keys to the new lock.

 

[invst4profit]

Odds are they will not fix there problem and this will be the beginning of a long process for you.

Who signed there rent checks husband or wife. That is the person you will ultimately end up working with. If it is the husband (likely if not joint) you may have a problem.
If they continue having problems and the wife stays in the unit I would strongly suggest for her own safety that she move.
Otherwise you may run into problems getting the rent if the husband cuts her off.

 

[JoefromTO]

I had a similar situation last summer with a new tenant. The best thing for you to do is:

#1- document everything! I`m not sure what province your in, but the tenant protection act in Ontario leans more in favour of the tenants. The thing to understand is that the Tribunal (now called the Board), they always try to mediate problems FIRST. So they like it when you, as the landlord, try to resolve problems first as opposed to evicting, which is why its very important to issue notices the 1st time and take alot of notes.

#2- If there was an illegal act on the premisses AND someone was charged AND you can prove it by getting the cooperation of the tenants, what do you want to do next. If you plan on mediating, thats your choice, but I believe that if there is an illegal act you have grounds for a more immediate course of action. If you ask me, you will continue to have problems with these tenants. You should call the Tribunal and find out what YOUR rights are, not only for your own happiness, but for the "reasonable enjoyment" of your other tenants as well.

The thing is, will you have support from the wife, considering the fact that she let her husband back in. So you may have to take matters into your own hands, and try to remove BOTH tenants by going through the channels. The sad part is, you already when through the expense of changing the locks...what good did it do?

There is always another concern though...will they trash the place on the way out... This obviously has an influence on how you will chose to handle the situation.

Iv`e had my share of problem tenants in the past but I quickly learned that taking proper action and going through the right channels definitely helps smoothen things out. You just want to make sure that they realize that YOUR not the enemy here. Your just trying to contain a domestic problem that they created and the problem needs to be resolved.

You might even want to consider hiring a paralegal that specializes in residential apartments, to help you know which forms to use and how to fill them in.

Welcome to the "horror stories". You`ll get through this.

 

[NorthernAlex]

I agree that there will be always trouble with them. I really am thinking of cashing them out for the safety and calm sake of the other tenant. One complaint about the week end incident.

The rent was paid cash so far.

 

[terri]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Mar 30 2009, 06:51 PM) I agree that there will be always trouble with them. I really am thinking of cashing them out for the safety and calm sake of the other tenant. One complaint about the week end incident.

The rent was paid cash so far.


Wondering if you can charge them for the cost of changing the lock? There doesn`t seem to be any reason on your part to change the lock, it was a request from the tenant. Perhaps that would at least prevent her from calling you to change the locks every time they get in a fight. I know this sounds like a callous thing to say but if there really is domestic violence then she needs to file charges, have him arrested and get him out fo her life for good. Throwing him out and taking him back will not resolve anything if there really is an abuse problem.

 

[JoefromTO]

QUOTE (terri @ Mar 30 2009, 10:42 PM) Wondering if you can charge them for the cost of changing the lock? There doesn`t seem to be any reason on your part to change the lock, it was a request from the tenant. Perhaps that would at least prevent her from calling you to change the locks every time they get in a fight. I know this sounds like a callous thing to say but if there really is domestic violence then she needs to file charges, have him arrested and get him out fo her life for good. Throwing him out and taking him back will not resolve anything if there really is an abuse problem.


I thought about your situation again last night and I was wondering if YOU can actually file the complaint about domestic violence and use the "complain" as your support/witness. The thing that is important is getting a copy of the police report. Due to the privacy laws, there are some restictions as to who can actually obtain these records. The person who called the police is eligible(correct me if I` wrong), the accused and the victim and I think that`s it.

When I had my issues, I dealt with a paralegal who went into detail as to what I needed to do, what I could do, etc...this saved me alot of time and frustration.

The thing is, you need to send a clear message...YOU DO NOT TOLERATE THIS AND CANNOT LET THIS REOCCURE, FOR EVERYONE`S SAKE INCLUDING NEIGHBOURS. In fact, and correct me if I`m wrong here, but if you have other tenants who complain to you about the issue and you DON`T act accordingly, apparently they can sue you!

Trust me, call a few paralegals until you find someone you can talk to and you believe is competent in this area.

 

[invst4profit]

If other tenants are complaining you could issue a N5 and evict under the "reasonable enjoyment" clause.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Greg, this is awesome! I have an email from one tenant, the second told it on the phone but would give it in written manner too.

Are two tenant emails enough?

 

[JoefromTO]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Mar 31 2009, 02:27 PM) Greg, this is awesome! I have an email from one tenant, the second told it on the phone but would give it in written manner too.

Are two tenant emails enough?

Possibly, have you tried contacting a paralegal yet? It really comes down to where the apartment is and the laws that pertain to residential tenancy in that area. Keep in mind that different forms have time lines in terms of how long the tenants have to vacate AND some allow them to correct behaviour within a given amount of time. An illegal act has a much shorter timeline. So...if your intention is to actually remove the tenants, then you want to use the right form(s) and have sufficient information to support it.

The other reason I was suggesting using a paralegal is because the Tribunal is very picky on how they expect the forms to be filled out. An error on your part can cause much longer delays.

When I hired my paralegal, it cost me about $150.00 to have her fill out 2 forms, but the best part was that I had someone who listened to the scenario and advise me accordingly.

In the end, I never did evict my tenant, but all the bad behaviour stoped completely. To be honest, my problematic tenant has become an ideal tenant...rent is always on time, no noise, gets along with other tenants, keeps place clean...she became very cooperative AFTER I submitted the forms.

Remember, the Tribunal does NOT like to evict tenants, at least thats the way it is in Ontario. You have to have a very good reason to evict tenants AND you have to have more than enough information with people to support it.