Buying rentals in Quebec

realfortin · Dec 9, 2008

I’m likely to move to the Ottawa area in the spring. I would like to buy some more properties there. Ottawa’s prices are somewhat high while the Gatineau side (1km away) are rock bottom low. The ones on the Gatineau cost a third of the prices.

Does anyone have any input or experience as to why I would not want a rental property on the Quebec side? Do they have bad landlord laws? Are there special income requirements?
The language is not an issue as I am a Francophone.

I just think I could get 2 fourplexes on the Gatineau side that cashflow well for the price of a triplex on the Ottawa side that barely cashflows.

Any comments or opinions are appreciated.

RF

Note, I would live on the Ontario side FOR SURE for income tax reasons.

ZanderRobertson · Dec 9, 2008

Hi Real,

I lived in Montreal for three years and I can definitely say the landlord tenant laws are seriously slanted in the tenant`s favour. The landlord has severe restrictions on how much and how often they can raise the rent. I lived there from 2002-2005 and I was paying $450 for a one bedroom.

At that time all rents were depressed relating back to the 1995 sovereignty vote. Example: an apartment rents for $500 in 1994 just before the sovereignty vote. The movement picks up steam and a huge amount of anglos leave Montreal, vacancies skyrocket (i.e., rue St.Catherine storefronts are 50% vacant). Landlords drop their rents drastically to attract renters. The same apartment that rented for $500, now rents for $200 (I`m not exaggerating, it was that bad)The vote passes and people gradually trickle back into Montreal, lowering vacancy rates. Other economic indicators strengthen, and market rents should raise with everything else. Problem: landlords can only raise their rents incrementally. So now the place that used to rent for $500 in 1994 is going up year over year by $25. It takes a long time to reach market levels again. This was common amongst people I knew, EXTREMELY CHEAP RENTS.

Sorry Montrealers if this isn`t a fair assessment, just my view as a student at the time now looking back.

Don`t know anything about Gatineau, but that`s my experience of Montreal.

Good luck!

QUOTE (realfortin @ Dec 9 2008, 08:02 AM) I’m likely to move to the Ottawa area in the spring. I would like to buy some more properties there. Ottawa’s prices are somewhat high while the Gatineau side (1km away) are rock bottom low. The ones on the Gatineau cost a third of the prices.

Does anyone have any input or experience as to why I would not want a rental property on the Quebec side? Do they have bad landlord laws? Are there special income requirements?
The language is not an issue as I am a Francophone.

I just think I could get 2 fourplexes on the Gatineau side that cashflow well for the price of a triplex on the Ottawa side that barely cashflows.

Any comments or opinions are appreciated.

RF

Note, I would live on the Ontario side FOR SURE for income tax reasons.

realfortin · Dec 9, 2008

QUOTE (ZanderRobertson @ Dec 9 2008, 06:20 PM) Hi Real,

I lived in Montreal for three years and I can definitely say the landlord tenant laws are seriously slanted in the tenant`s favour. The landlord has severe restrictions on how much and how often they can raise the rent. I lived there from 2002-2005 and I was paying $450 for a one bedroom.

At that time all rents were depressed relating back to the 1995 sovereignty vote. Example: an apartment rents for $500 in 1994 just before the sovereignty vote. The movement picks up steam and a huge amount of anglos leave Montreal, vacancies skyrocket (i.e., rue St.Catherine storefronts are 50% vacant). Landlords drop their rents drastically to attract renters. The same apartment that rented for $500, now rents for $200 (I`m not exaggerating, it was that bad)The vote passes and people gradually trickle back into Montreal, lowering vacancy rates. Other economic indicators strengthen, and market rents should raise with everything else. Problem: landlords can only raise their rents incrementally. So now the place that used to rent for $500 in 1994 is going up year over year by $25. It takes a long time to reach market levels again. This was common amongst people I knew, EXTREMELY CHEAP RENTS.

Sorry Montrealers if this isn`t a fair assessment, just my view as a student at the time now looking back.

Don`t know anything about Gatineau, but that`s my experience of Montreal.

Good luck!

Good info. If you get a new tenant can you set the rent at market then ?
I will definately have to do more research on rental prices in the area as well as vacancy rates... good due diligence.
Thansk for the info thus far.
RF

ZanderRobertson · Dec 9, 2008

to my recollection, no you can`t raise the rent more than the legal limit even if there is a new tenant. a lot of the cagier landlords really liked to get new tenants from out of town because they would try that. if the tenant wasn`t knowledgeable enough to take it to the landlord/tenant board, then the landlord could potentially get away with it.

One friend of mine started paying $700 for his rent; then he heard through another tenant in the same building that the previous tenant paid $450. So, my friend took his case to the landlord/tenant board and won. The landlord had to pay back the previous overcharge and then drop the rent to what was legally allowed. Note: my friend is english canadian from western canada like me, that`s the only reason the landlord had the stones to try that maneuver on him. MOST quebecois that i met were very knowledgeable on their rights as tenants.

60% of montrealers rent their entire life. it`s a very renter friendly society.

QUOTE (realfortin @ Dec 9 2008, 06:38 PM) Good info. If you get a new tenant can you set the rent at market then ?
I will definately have to do more research on rental prices in the area as well as vacancy rates... good due diligence.
Thansk for the info thus far.
RF

realfortin · Dec 10, 2008

QUOTE (ZanderRobertson @ Dec 9 2008, 10:29 PM) to my recollection, no you can`t raise the rent more than the legal limit even if there is a new tenant. a lot of the cagier landlords really liked to get new tenants from out of town because they would try that. if the tenant wasn`t knowledgeable enough to take it to the landlord/tenant board, then the landlord could potentially get away with it.

One friend of mine started paying $700 for his rent; then he heard through another tenant in the same building that the previous tenant paid $450. So, my friend took his case to the landlord/tenant board and won. The landlord had to pay back the previous overcharge and then drop the rent to what was legally aloud. Note: my friend is english canadian from western canada like me, that`s the only reason the landlord had the stones to try that maneuver on him. MOST quebecois that i met were very knowledgeable on their rights as tenants.

60% of montrealers rent their entire life. it`s a very renter friendly society.
Sounds like a tough crowd...I`d be better to just stay in Vanier in Ottawa (rougher neighbourhood) and upgrade

Thansk for the very valuable info. I don`t think REIN will do well in Quebec.

RF

ZanderRobertson · Dec 10, 2008

it`s just my recollection. please do your diligence. there may be great opportunities in gatineau.

QUOTE (realfortin @ Dec 10 2008, 06:58 PM) Sounds like a tough crowd...I`d be better to just stay in Vanier in Ottawa (rougher neighbourhood) and upgrade

Thansk for the very valuable info. I don`t think REIN will do well in Quebec.

RF

Nicola · Dec 13, 2008

From what I`ve been told (by a property manager in Montreal), the law is as follows:

- yes, you can only raise the rent for the current tenant by a set % (small) per year - as in Ontario

- if you do renovations, you can apply for a higher rent increase, but the cost of your improvements is amortized over 25 years (so you can increase your rent only by a very small amount) - I think Ontario is better about this

- you can`t take last month`s rent or a security deposit - in Ontario you can take last month`s rent (no SD)

- you can increase to market rent if it`s a new tenant BUT, if the tenant asks, you are obliged to tell them what the lowest rent was in the previous 12 months. They can then apply to the Regie du Logement to get that lower rent

llee · Dec 26, 2008

I live in Ottawa, and let me give my insights about the Gatineau market. Apart from the tenant/landlord regulations, the properties in Gatineau does not appreciate as much as in Ottawa. The vacancy rate is high because it is affordable to buy your own house (you can get a condo townhouse for $150K).

There`re only a few OC Transpo bus routes that cross the bridge - transportation is not easy unless you have a car, but the bridges are always jam packed with cars in rush hours between Gatineau and Ottawa.

However, if you buy near the university (UQO), you might be able to get short term (8-month) rentals from students. Again, do your due diligence. Please PM me if you need further info.

Lucas

PS. In Vanier (Ottawa), you can get positive cashflow properties easier, but the area is still under development. It`s known to have high tenant turnover (which is good if you want to raise the rent), but also you`re likely to get problematic tenants

realfortin · Feb 9, 2009

QUOTE (llee @ Dec 26 2008, 09:44 AM) I live in Ottawa, and let me give my insights about the Gatineau market. Apart from the tenant/landlord regulations, the properties in Gatineau does not appreciate as much as in Ottawa. The vacancy rate is high because it is affordable to buy your own house (you can get a condo townhouse for $150K).

There`re only a few OC Transpo bus routes that cross the bridge - transportation is not easy unless you have a car, but the bridges are always jam packed with cars in rush hours between Gatineau and Ottawa.

However, if you buy near the university (UQO), you might be able to get short term (8-month) rentals from students. Again, do your due diligence. Please PM me if you need further info.

Lucas

PS. In Vanier (Ottawa), you can get positive cashflow properties easier, but the area is still under development. It`s known to have high tenant turnover (which is good if you want to raise the rent), but also you`re likely to get problematic tenants

Thanks Lucas, I`ll get in touch before I move to the area.