Canada`s New It Province

[Jack]

-Hood has left the hustle and bustle of life in Toronto, enticed to the West with her husband and four children after meeting a delegation from Saskatchewan at a recent job fair. "I was just really overwhelmed with how excited everybody was about Saskatchewan and how nice they were. There was actually a distinguishable difference in the room. It just gave you a really great sense that it was a good place to be," says Hood. "The job itself was more exciting than anything I was seeing in Toronto and once I started researching the city, I thought it would be a great lifestyle change as well." -People from every part of the country are flocking to the plain vanilla, square-cornered province. -Employment is strong and a booming economy has made Saskatchewan a rags-to-riches story. While economic storm clouds are raining bad news down upon the rest of the country, experts are confident that Saskatchewan will be a relative bright spot in 2009. -"We still think it`s going to be the strongest province in the country over the next year," says Robert Kavcic, an economic analyst with BMO Capital Markets. "That doesn`t mean it`s not going to slow and we`re expecting it to slow actually quite sharply, but it still should be the strongest province in Canada."

-Statistics Canada figures show that Saskatchewan`s population growth in 2007-08 was the strongest since the early 1970s. For the first time, the province led the pack when it came to interprovincial migration.

-It also had the lowest unemployment rate in all of Canada in November, with 14,800 more people working than in November 2007.

-Sales of Crown petroleum and natural gas rights helped swell provincial coffers by a record $1.12 billion during the past year. Both the National Energy Board and the Saskatchewan Ministry of Energy and Resources say the province has more than enough conventional gas to keep that industry active for many years.

-The Conference Board of Canada forecasts that Saskatchewan will lead the country in economic growth in 2009. In its autumn 2008 outlook, it said "Saskatchewan is in a league of its own; booming conditions are anticipated to persist well into 2009."

-The icing on the cake is the $2.3-billion provincial budget surplus. That extra cash gave Wall`s government room to make a significant income tax cut in the past year and reduce the provincial debt by about 40 per cent - to $4.2 billion. Wall says his next budget, to be delivered in March, will be the "best chance to peer into the future" to see when the government might be able to eliminate its debt.

-The resort village of Katepwa, which is nestled in the Qu`Appelle Valley just northeast of Regina, is so small it doesn`t even have a postal code. It`s a scenic spot with beaches and a lake. The boom has brought in so much money that some of the village`s 200 full-time residents feel they could be forced out. Waterfront property that went for $16,000 about 25 years ago now draws a cool $600,000.

-Saskatchewan`s growing economy is being credited with helping to reduce the number of people getting social assistance.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081228/..._sask_success_1

 

[joe123]

So are you invested in Sask? by one of your posts, your logic was the faster they go up, the harder they fall, right? Sask went up by a greater percentage than Alberta (look at the averages, ereb vs srar and do the math, instead of heresay), so it should fall harder, right?

Or is everything just perception? Sask goes from never getting much attention, to getting some, so everybody jumps on board. Good O` Alberta which is always pushing hard gets ignored.
Sort of like two brothers, one who always gets A`s in School and his dumber brother who gets all D`s, one day comes home with B`s, OMG the parents make a huge deal, because it is good for him, so he even feels smart, the entire family gets on board and excited, however the brother who still got all A`s is ignored because, well it was expected of him... and what if the "smarter" brother got a B on his report card? The parents would make a big negative deal about it because he always gets all A`s, it is not expected of him, something must be wrong, making you think he was getting dumb or on a downward slope, what a huge deal he got a B, when in reality he is still getting better grades overall than his "dumber" brother.

Really look at Sask vs, Alberta for jobs, income, amenities, lifestyle, take home pay, and unemployment..... Does it justify being more expensive? Or is everybody focused on the other brother? maybe thier nitwit cousin because he was able to tie his shoes? Warped perceptions, and replacing fear with reason is happening too much lately...

I know for a fact my now $420k home in SW Edmonton sells for $540k in Saskatoon (stonebridge), if you can even compare those neighborhoods, more like NE Edmonton to Stonebridge so 380k to 540k more like it, $490k in Regina... but the average price is lower, yeah, look what it gets you, look how many more dumps and crap shacks those cities have that bring their "average" down significantly, and how many more newer homes there are in Edmonton and Calgary that drive the average up, plus the amenities etc... Go ahead move to sask, make less, pay more for the same house, or downgrade to a lesser home because they have them a plenty... friends of mine did, and boy they regret it. No room for advancement in his job due to the small city, Edmonton is the main branch, payed more for a similiar house over Edmonton, after he moved there expecting lower prices due to the "average", then found out his taxes where way more. It may be alright for somebody starting out who can live in a crap shack? Nevermind trying to shop, or social life differences.... Is Sask tropical? have a huge lake? Any reason why it should cost more than Alberta? No. Yeah it has a future, but to justify higher prices, no, or am I missing something? Is Alberta undervalued or Sask Overvalued? which is it?

 

[seeu22]

QUOTE (joe123 @ Jan 3 2009, 02:50 PM) So are you invested in Sask? by one of your posts, your logic was the faster they go up, the harder they fall, right? Sask went up by a greater percentage than Alberta (look at the averages, ereb vs srar and do the math, instead of heresay), so it should fall harder, right?

Or is everything just perception? Sask goes from never getting much attention, to getting some, so everybody jumps on board. Good O` Alberta which is always pushing hard gets ignored.
Sort of like two brothers, one who always gets A`s in School and his dumber brother who gets all D`s, one day comes home with B`s, OMG the parents make a huge deal, because it is good for him, so he even feels smart, the entire family gets on board and excited, however the brother who still got all A`s is ignored because, well it was expected of him... and what if the "smarter" brother got a B on his report card? The parents would make a big negative deal about it because he always gets all A`s, it is not expected of him, something must be wrong, making you think he was getting dumb or on a downward slope, what a huge deal he got a B, when in reality he is still getting better grades overall than his "dumber" brother.

Really look at Sask vs, Alberta for jobs, income, amenities, lifestyle, take home pay, and unemployment..... Does it justify being more expensive? Or is everybody focused on the other brother? maybe thier nitwit cousin because he was able to tie his shoes? Warped perceptions, and replacing fear with reason is happening too much lately...

I know for a fact my now $420k home in SW Edmonton sells for $540k in Saskatoon (stonebridge), if you can even compare those neighborhoods, more like NE Edmonton to Stonebridge so 380k to 540k more like it, $490k in Regina... but the average price is lower, yeah, look what it gets you, look how many more dumps and crap shacks those cities have that bring their "average" down significantly, and how many more newer homes there are in Edmonton and Calgary that drive the average up, plus the amenities etc... Go ahead move to sask, make less, pay more for the same house, or downgrade to a lesser home because they have them a plenty... friends of mine did, and boy they regret it. No room for advancement in his job due to the small city, Edmonton is the main branch, payed more for a similiar house over Edmonton, after he moved there expecting lower prices due to the "average", then found out his taxes where way more. It may be alright for somebody starting out who can live in a crap shack? Nevermind trying to shop, or social life differences.... Is Sask tropical? have a huge lake? Any reason why it should cost more than Alberta? No. Yeah it has a future, but to justify higher prices, no, or am I missing something? Is Alberta undervalued or Sask Overvalued? which is it?

Dude, you need to have a beer and relax. Your post is more offensive than it is inquisitive.

Neil

 

[Jack]

QUOTE So are you invested in Sask? by one of your posts, your logic was the faster they go up, the harder they fall, right? Sask went up by a greater percentage than Alberta (look at the averages, ereb vs srar and do the math, instead of heresay), so it should fall harder, right?

I am not invested in Saskatchewan.

And you`re wrong on your last sentence. Calgary & Edmonton have experienced a bigger run-up in price over the last 10 years than any other cities in Canada. When I analyze, I don`t use the results of just one year (as in Regina`s `08 boom), I look over longer-term averages.

QUOTE Really look at Sask vs, Alberta for jobs, income, amenities, lifestyle, take home pay, and unemployment..... Does it justify being more expensive? Or is everybody focused on the other brother? maybe thier nitwit cousin because he was able to tie his shoes? Warped perceptions, and replacing fear with reason is happening too much lately...

Jobs & unemployment? The difference is immaterial. Alberta`s unemployment rate is 3.4, Saskatchewan`s is 3.7. And I`d suggest that the employment outlook for the nearer term is much stronger in Saskatchewan.

Income? Yes, you earn more in AB; but, how much more does it cost to live in AB? Average weekly earnings in AB is $894.46, $764.93 in SK. So, Albertans earn 17% more. But, remember inflation. A basket of goods in AB costs $121.50 compared to SK`s $116.90, which represents a 4% premium on goods used every day in AB. To build a house in Calgary costs 11% more than it does in Saskatoon.

Lifestyle? For Calgary, you can argue that you`re close to an abundance of mountains and outdoorsy stuff, but how does a city like Edmonton have a much better lifestyle to offer than a place like Saskatoon or Regina? I guess they have an NHL team and an oversized shopping mall, but I don`t know much else. Edmonton`s never going to be mistaken for a Shangri-La, that I can assure you.

QUOTE Nevermind trying to shop, or social life differences.... Is Sask tropical? have a huge lake? Any reason why it should cost more than Alberta? No. Yeah it has a future, but to justify higher prices, no, or am I missing something? Is Alberta undervalued or Sask Overvalued? which is it?

Right now, they`re both likely overvalued, as will be materialized through probable price declines throughout the year.

As for why it "should" cost more than Alberta, are you at all aware of Saskatchewan`s underlying resource base? They have everything. Alberta has oil. Saskatchewan has oil, uranium, and potash. If not for their leftist governments choosing not to put in the infrastructure many, many years ago for more advanced mineral extraction, they`d be in even greater shape right now. Brad Wall seems to be quite business-friendly, and it kinda looks like the province is now realizing the kind of opportunity that they have thanks to their vast natural resources. Albertans can largely thank Ralph Klein for the position they`re in right now, who chose to encourage investment in the oil sector. I`m not saying that these resources alone should justify a higher house price, but it`s not crazy to see why Saskatchewan could one day be the key driver of Canada`s economy.

Over and above what you`re saying, I don`t believe that Saskatchewan house prices are higher than Alberta`s. So where exactly did that rant come from?

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (Jack @ Jan 3 2009, 04:30 PM) As for why it "should" cost more than Alberta, are you at all aware of Saskatchewan`s underlying resource base? They have everything. Alberta has oil. Saskatchewan has oil, uranium, and potash.

Unlike SK, AB has:

Alberta has oil, gas, oil sands and coal.

The oilsands make it the world`s 2nd largest deposit of recoverable oil, whose commercial exploitation has barely begun. Yes @ $50/barrrel it`ll be slower to be developed .. but @ $200 it`ll be OK. And $200 is where we will be in 3-4 years, if not earlier.

AB also has water in abundance in Northern Alberta.

AB has mountains, with world class skiing and the Top Canadian tourism destination: Banff National Park.

AB has 2 world class universities.

AB has a huge depth of engineering talent that is sent all over the world. Some companies` asset in Calgary are: brains, computers and networks .. but the physical assets they exploit are in US, S-America, Africa, Asia or Russia. It has a technical depth that would take decades to build elsewhere.

AB has low taxes, sunny skies, a can-do attitude and a consistent pro-business conservative government.

House prices are LOW compared to world standards, and yes, they will drop a hair or 3 more this year (another 5% maybe .. a rounding error really) .. but a condo or house still costs far less than in HongKong, Paris, Munich, Sydney, Dublin, London, New York, San Diego or Seattle.

AB has two international airports where you can fly non-stop to: London, Frankfurt, soon Amsterdam, Seattle, Denver, Mexico City, Salt Lake City, LA, San Fran, Palm Springs, Phoenix, New York .. to name a few .. where can you fly to from Saskatoon: Edmonton, Calgary or Regina .. maybe Winnipeg ..

SK had a growth advantage 2-3 years ago but this advantage is now basically gone due to price increases .. still decent growth, similar to Alberta but none of the depth ..

We too like to buy in SK, but taxes and utility costs are higher and rents lower for a similar asset, thus the price has to be 20% to 30% or so lower "per door".

Why AB: http://www.prestprop.com/ab.html
Why SK: http://www.prestprop.com/sk.html

Both have their pro`s and con`s .. and both are great places to invest in at the right price point (lower please in SK for the reasons mentioned above)

 

[joe123]

Well put Thomas,
Perhaps I do need a chill pill. Sorry for the rant. Just for the reasons Thomas laid out, Sask is either over priced, or Edm / Calgary are underpriced. House for house comparisons, similiar neighborhood to similair neighborhood I`ve made for Saskatoon vs Edmonton do NOT suggest Saskatoon is cheaper to build a new house in. A used run down piece of crap not near any real amenities, costs less yes, moderate 50`s housing within 10% seems a little too close. Depending on the price level, starter being more close, but inbetween wow, huge difference. Like what I stated, my home costs 30% more in Saskatoon.. Is that justified? Is the same price justified? I think minus 15% is justified. Taking into consideration wages, taxes etc., like what Thomas said....

Perhaps I am a bit negative on Sask since I under-estimated what was going to happen, missed out, and see it now as overpriced for cash flow as Thomas outlined and can`t make heads or tails of what is going on in either market...

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (joe123 @ Jan 3 2009, 06:48 PM) Well put Thomas,
Perhaps I do need a chill pill. Sorry for the rant. Just for the reasons Thomas laid out, Sask is either over priced, or Edm / Calgary are underpriced. House for house comparisons, similiar neighborhood to similair neighborhood I`ve made for Saskatoon vs Edmonton do NOT suggest Saskatoon is cheaper to build a new house in. A used run down piece of crap not near any real amenities, costs less yes, moderate 50`s housing within 10% seems a little too close. Depending on the price level, starter being more close, but inbetween wow, huge difference. Like what I stated, my home costs 30% more in Saskatoon.. Is that justified? Is the same price justified? I think minus 15% is justified. Taking into consideration wages, taxes etc., like what Thomas said....

Perhaps I am a bit negative on Sask since I under-estimated what was going to happen, missed out, and see it now as overpriced for cash flow as Thomas outlined and can`t make heads or tails of what is going on in either market...
both markets have cooled substantially .. but so has: TX, BC, ON, USA, W-Europe, Russia, E-Europe, China, whole of Asia .. where is it so much better in late 2008 / early 2009 than in 2007 .. where in the world ?

house prices in Regina and Saskatoon have retreated since summer .. so both markets are probably "fairly priced" .. whatever that means i.e. with +/- 10% of where they should be ..

focus on SPECIFIC projects as you can influence those .. you cannot influence the big forces in life .. but you can influence what you buy, where you buy, how you upgrade it, how to treat tenants, how to market .. in any business environment some fail and some thrive ..

 

[nepoez]

I`m not so sure if AB is underpriced, at least Edmonton isn`t.


QUOTE (joe123 @ Jan 3 2009, 05:48 PM) Well put Thomas,
Perhaps I do need a chill pill. Sorry for the rant. Just for the reasons Thomas laid out, Sask is either over priced, or Edm / Calgary are underpriced. House for house comparisons, similiar neighborhood to similair neighborhood I`ve made for Saskatoon vs Edmonton do NOT suggest Saskatoon is cheaper to build a new house in. A used run down piece of crap not near any real amenities, costs less yes, moderate 50`s housing within 10% seems a little too close. Depending on the price level, starter being more close, but inbetween wow, huge difference. Like what I stated, my home costs 30% more in Saskatoon.. Is that justified? Is the same price justified? I think minus 15% is justified. Taking into consideration wages, taxes etc., like what Thomas said....

Perhaps I am a bit negative on Sask since I under-estimated what was going to happen, missed out, and see it now as overpriced for cash flow as Thomas outlined and can`t make heads or tails of what is going on in either market...