Claiming Legal Fees; Ontario N5 Form

[rforgiel]

I have tenants in a condo townhouse who continually leave toys and things out on the driveway and front lawn as well as repair wrecked cars on the driveway. They are OK tenants and I get their cheque every month from the disability board so I am satisfied with them.



The issue with fixing cars has been resolved with the exception of a few toys being left around which we are working on. The board has issued several notes. It is low end units so it is not all that conspicuous for the area.



The condo board overreacted in my opinion and had a lawyer send a letter with copies of condo board rules and declarations (copied at lawyer rates I suppose - whenever there is an opportunity to gouge) threatening to take legal action to end the tenancy if things are not put away. The letter states I will need to pay the legal fees the board incurs or they will put a lien on my place.



I have issued an N5 to the tenants to fix the problem or state they will need to leave. On the form there is a space for claiming property damage. Can I claim the lawyer fees as damage. The landlord and tenant board helpline considers this a fuzzy area and can not give clear advice. Is there a better way to claim these fees from the tenant.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

owner is responsible for the condo board fees (and this would include legal fees and penalties in my opinion). Tenant is not the owner. You are stuck between a rock (the condo board) and a hard place (the tenant).



==> My suggestion: Get Legal advice here during the eviction process, as tenant might not leave, and you may not get a court order in your favour if tenant tidies up a bit.

 

[stlandlords]

Yes, you now have options. It's new and it's being worked out with the tenant activists pushing hard for it to be used against landlords more than it will be used by landlords against tenants.



Email me at [email protected]

 

[stlandlords]

As of January 2012 you can attempt to recover up to $700 in costs at the LTB:



Guideline #3 Costs



Subsection 204(2) of the RTA gives the Board the discretion to order one party to pay another party`s costs.

27.2 Pursuant to subsection 204(2) of the RTA, the Board may order a party to an application to pay the costs of another party. These costs may include an amount for:



(a) representation/preparation fees; and



(b) other out-of-pocket expenses.



Where the Board orders a party to pay the representation/preparation fees incurred by another party, these fees shall not exceed $100 per hour for the services of a paid agent or legal representative. The total amount ordered for representation/preparation fees shall not exceed $700 in respect of the proceedings as a whole. In addition, the total amount ordered for other out-of-pocket expenses shall not exceed $700 in respect of the proceedings as a whole.



http://ontariolandlord.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6724&sid=fa4fd97ab63486148836bbe5f29bc6fd

 

[rforgiel]

Thank you for the answer. Appreciate your knowledge in this area and you seem to know more then the people and the Tenant Board. They indicated there is no real precedent for this and would be a crap shoot to pursue.

 

[invst4profit]

In my opinion, having had extensive dealings with the LTB, it is very unlikely you will be able to claim any Condo corporation fees related to there dealing with the issue of your tenants.

However you should still go ahead and claim the expense if it is your intent to proceed to the board with a eviction.

If this is not your tenants second N5 in the past 6 months this claim for financial compensation, if not paid to you, will be the only reason you will be able to take your tenant to the board. It will cost you $170 and you will likely lose.

Your best option is to give the N5 notice without the request for compensation which will void the notice if they comply but allow you to proceed to a hearing if a second notice is issued within 6 months.



The change in language concerning fees is directly related to preparation and representation regarding the LTB hearing only.



Any legal fees paid to the Condo Corporation are simply a business expense.

Condominium Corporations do not fall under the Ontario RTA the therefor the LTB is highly unlikely to rule in your favour on the matter.

The reality is that it will be a cold day in July before the LTB will order tenants to pay landlords legal fees except in the most blatant abuse of the system by tenants. Not applicable in your case.



In addition to the fact that the primary mandate of the LTB is to protect and shield tenants.



Note: I am not a lawyer. I am a landlord experienced in dealing with the LTB.