First and Last

[Bottlejack]

Can i require tenats to pay First and last months rent now if the first month is a few months away?

eg.. tenants want place for sept 1,

i know i can ask for anything, but legally is it allowed. i live in ontario.

i know that in ontario you can only ask for one month deposit, which must be aplied to the last months rent. but does that stop me from requiring them to pay the first months now.

this is a student house and one of the parents is pressing the issue. Should i just rent to another group? i have another group that wants the place. could this parent be trouble?

thanks eric

 

[trev]

QUOTE (Bottlejack @ Apr 1 2009, 08:21 PM) Can i require tenats to pay First and last months rent now if the first month is a few months away?
eg.. tenants want place for sept 1,

i know i can ask for anything, but legally is it allowed. i live in ontario.

i know that in ontario you can only ask for one month deposit, which must be aplied to the last months rent. but does that stop me from requiring them to pay the first months now.

this is a student house and one of the parents is pressing the issue. Should i just rent to another group? i have another group that wants the place. could this parent be trouble?

thanks eric

Once I find a suitable tenant, I tell them I need one months rent to secure the unit for anyone. I require the 2nd months rent before I give them the keys. I figure that even if they back out or disappear (which I`ve seen happen ) I have rent paid for the month and a month to find a new tenant.
But you say yours is a student residence which means if they don`t show come Sept 1 your chance of finding a new student isn`t very good.
In this case I would require both months rent. Harder to walk away from 2 months rent than 1 or none.
Is it legal?
Who cares?
As I understand it, it is illegal to reject a tenant based on income (or lack of -ie welfare) or credit.

Just remember (CYA)

"I regret to inform you that I have found another tenant" (and answer NO questions)

The other issue is, if they are giving you a hard time now, or god forbid start telling you their rights before their in your house......

RUN

 

[invst4profit]

The only thing I would add is that you never hand over the keys until you have cash in hand. A check for any amount owing on move in day is not sufficient at that time - cash only if they leave it that late. Remember it tales a week or more for a check to clear.
I would also recommend that if they are only paying 1 month to secure the unit do not collect the full 1 month. Take 1 month less a dollar. That way the tenant can not argue before the LTB that there last month rent deposit was actually there first months rent.
Before move in they will owe you 1 months rent plus 1 dollar and if they do not pay the full amount legally you can deny them access.

Also a landlord is entitled to decline a applicant due to income. However a landlord should only tell a unsuccessful applicant that they have selected someone else.

 

[vandriani]

You may want to take the deposit now and tell them that they need to provide the first month`s rent on Aug 1st (cash). Therefore, if they do not show, you have the month of Aug to find new renters and you are covered for one mnoth. But, if you do find a new tenant for September, you should give back the deposit

 

[invst4profit]

Why give back the deposit if the tenant has signed a lease. What you do is tell them you will agree to let them out of the lease early, at the end of August, if you rent it for September.
Don`t forget to have them sign the paper work agreeing to vacate the unit, even if they never live there, or they could argue in the future it is still there apartment even if they have not paid all money owing.
Always cover your bases. Don`t forget this is Ontario we are talking about.

 

[trev]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Apr 2 2009, 11:02 AM) The only thing I would add is that you never hand over the keys until you have cash in hand. A check for any amount owing on move in day is not sufficient at that time - cash only if they leave it that late. Remember it tales a week or more for a check to clear.
I would also recommend that if they are only paying 1 month to secure the unit do not collect the full 1 month. Take 1 month less a dollar. That way the tenant can not argue before the LTB that there last month rent deposit was actually there first months rent.
Before move in they will owe you 1 months rent plus 1 dollar and if they do not pay the full amount legally you can deny them access.

Also a landlord is entitled to decline a applicant due to income. However a landlord should only tell a unsuccessful applicant that they have selected someone else.


YES! All money before they get access must be cash.

Your advice on 1 months rent less a dollar has me intrigued

Is this based on some precedence?

I`ve never heard of this concept.

Please reply.

 

[invst4profit]

With a signed lease and having paid one months rent (last month) tenants have successfully argued before the LTB that they have in fact paid there first months rent. This has been in cases where the new tenants have gained access to the unit by deceptive means (lied to landlord) and the LTB has upheld there right to remain in the apartment without having to pay the additional months rent. In essence the landlord does not have the last months rent and the LTB will not force the tenant pay it once they are in the apartment.
First/last months rent is a grey area in which I would not trust the LTB to support the Landlord. If the deposit is less than a months rent with the agreement that the remainder plus another months rent be paid prior to move in the tenant can never argue they paid a months rent and can not under any circumstances have legal access to the apartment until they pay the entire amount owing.
In Ontario landlords must be extremely careful in protecting themselves from unscrupulous tenants.

 

[Mike Milovick]

Here`s the correct response:

In Ontario, you can ask for first and last month`s rent. If the tenant does not give you both first and last`s month`s rent, there are within their rights. As landlord, you CAN mandate that they provide you with last month`s rent as deposit.

Note though that I NEVER ask for a first and last month`s rent. I ask for a contract deposit. The money gets applied to first and last month`s rent once their lease starts.

My suggestion would be to get a lease from London, Waterloo or possibly the Kingston Property Management Associations. Or contact Joe Hoffer at Highly Cohen Vogel (the firm name may have changed) based out of London. He will point you toward the Association in your area that uses this type of lease.


QUOTE (Bottlejack @ Apr 1 2009, 08:21 PM) Can i require tenats to pay First and last months rent now if the first month is a few months away?

eg.. tenants want place for sept 1,

i know i can ask for anything, but legally is it allowed. i live in ontario.

i know that in ontario you can only ask for one month deposit, which must be aplied to the last months rent. but does that stop me from requiring them to pay the first months now.

this is a student house and one of the parents is pressing the issue. Should i just rent to another group? i have another group that wants the place. could this parent be trouble?

thanks eric

 

[Al Verwey]

QUOTE (MikeMilovick @ Apr 9 2009, 10:11 PM) Here`s the correct response:

In Ontario, you can ask for first and last month`s rent. If the tenant does not give you both first and last`s month`s rent, there are within their rights. As landlord, you CAN mandate that they provide you with last month`s rent as deposit.

Note though that I NEVER ask for a first and last month`s rent. I ask for a contract deposit. The money gets applied to first and last month`s rent once their lease starts.

Mike,

Since application deposits are illegal under the RTA, how can you legally say that your "contract deposit" is something different?

Al Verwey
Penta V Holdings
Newmarket, ON

 

[housingrental]

I`m not a legal expert - however I think the idea is it`s a contract deposit that gets applied to and becomes first month rent once a signed lease is provided by applicant. The applicant is obligating themselves to enter into the contract and forfeiting the funds if they don`t as opposed to a fee to apply and they may ( or maybe not) be the distinction...

Or it`s unenforceable

 

[Mike Milovick]

QUOTE (AlVerwey @ Apr 13 2009, 02:04 AM) Mike,

Since application deposits are illegal under the RTA, how can you legally say that your "contract deposit" is something different?

Al Verwey
Penta V Holdings
Newmarket, ON

Hi Al;

That`s a super question.

Joe Hoffer is the lawyer that drafted our landlord association`s lease. And it was actually changed from a last month`s rent to a contract deposit.

I guess thought (thought) here may be that Residential Tenancy Act doesn`t apply until a lease is signed (???????). Or another thought might be that if the tenant doesn`t move in, the money collected was a deposit on the contract (?????) - not first and last month`s rent...and the tenant did not honour the contract as they did not move in (?????)...

Our lease was specifically adjusted about three years ago with this change...we have been instructed never to call the deposit first and last month`s rent...always a contract deposit...

Mike

 

[NorthernAlex]

As I am in a learning phase please allow me my question:

You guys take money from a potential tenant before both parties have signed papers?

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Apr 13 2009, 07:55 PM) As I am in a learning phase please allow me my question:

You guys take money from a potential tenant before both parties have signed papers?

most important is that you get BOTH the money and a signed lease from the tenant before you give them the key!
whether it is on the same day you give the key or earlier is less critical.
if it is the same day then accept only cash, direct deposit or certified cheque so you are on the safe side.
if you can get the money earlier that is even better but more flexible - then a regular cheque is fine too again as long as you see the money in your account before giving them the key.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Neil,
thank you. I am handling it like this: Both parties sign and I most of the time get some money upfront and the rest 1st/last amount most lately on move in date before handing out the keys. I never ever would give my keys without the cash.

I just wondered because of Mikes statement that he has the money before anything is signed. This was kind of confusing.

 

[housingrental]

To clarify tenant provides signed rental applicationThen might provide lease at a later date


QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Apr 14 2009, 01:02 AM) Neil,

thank you. I am handling it like this: Both parties sign and I most of the time get some money upfront and the rest 1st/last amount most lately on move in date before handing out the keys. I never ever would give my keys without the cash.

I just wondered because of Mikes statement that he has the money before anything is signed. This was kind of confusing.