Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Has Canmore Turned The Corner?

wgraham

0
REIN Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
617
For a couple of years now the Canmore housing market has been in a marked correction. How much of a correction can be argued depending on what subset of the market you are actually talking about: Condos, recration, single family homes, land, etc.


Certainly the condo and vacation rental market have been the hardest hit and may still have some room to move down. Condos are down 10% and vacation rentals are down 18% from 2009. That is very significant but it also means that the much need affordability that many first time home buyers are looking for is more attainable.


The high end second home also had a significant pull back and although we still see solid pricing the volume of high end homes trading hands has diminished significantly from the peak in 2007 however we did see volumes trend higher in 2010.


But interestingly the average home seems to be trending upward and selling relatively quickly. Did you know that single family home prices are actually up 12% from 2009! Let me say that again 12%! This sub segment of the market has recovered. Now that is something that we dared not even whisper not so long ago.


For realtors and others who benefit from actual transactions (lawyers, appraisers, mortgage brokers etc) the number of sales where up slightly from 2009 as well from 300 sales to 324 but still down significantly from a peak 509 in 2006. It should be noted that inventories are still high as is days on market. This is just the new normal. We don't sell our house for top dollar in two weeks anymore. Sellers need to adjust to this reality!


But all of this is really looking in the review mirror and as well all know that is always 20/20 so what does 2011 look like for the Canmore housing market?

Let's face it, Canmore's economy is very much tied to the provincial, national and global economy. So has the global economy turned the corner. Oil is up to $90US and with new events in thelim.world.unrest/index.html?hpt=T1" target="_blank" style="color: #cc9933; text-decoration: none;"> Middle East this isn't going down anytime soon. We have more jobs in Canada then before the recession. The US Dollar is still in the tank (and will continue to be so). GDP growth in Canada is back into healthy territory. Calgary home prices are up from 2009 and the commercial office space market is on a upward trend (unbeknownst to most). Banks are financing people again but with some recent rule changes by CMHC and the Conservative Government this is making it a little harder for some. In my humble opinion the changes to amortization periods and re-financing where a positive thing for the long term viability of Canada.

Outside of a very weak USD, this bodes well for the Canmore economy and the housing market all in all. We will see very modest price increases in the single family house. Those around the median price range will move relatively quickly. Condos will continue to suffer until we get the glut of product off of the market and that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately. If you have a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom condo you had better be outstanding at marketing and very motivated to move it.


There seems to be a certain buzz in the air that spring is around the corner from real estate point of view anyway
 

Thomas Beyer

0
REIN Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
13,881
[quote user=wgraham]Sellers need to adjust to this reality!


Great & insightful post, Wade !



Let me add 3 points:



1) We sold our house in summer 2010, in 2 weeks, because it was priced well .. probably about 20% below its 2007 peak. Many similar homes in Eagle Terrace where we used to live (or elsewhere) still sit "for sale" 15 months later as the prices are in la-la land !



2) I also think that Canmore single family homes will move up a bit in 2011 as there is little new construction and very few lots for sale, now that Three Sisters is still in bankruptcy proceedings and no new lots on the horizon any time soon.



3) Canmore has way too many condos, especially vacation rental condos .. therefore it may be a great time to buy for personal use, but not to get income while you are not there. Assume a very high vacancy for those vacation rentals !



What is the latest, in your humble opinion, Wade, with regard to



a) the bankruptcy in Three Sisters,



b) vacant lot & new single family home construction in general,



c) SilverTip construction / further development ??
 

wgraham

0
REIN Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
617
Agreed Thomas! Many people are still asking peak numbers and they just sit on the market.



As per Three Sisters, the longer that thing sits in receivership the better for the market. Personally I don't care if it ever comes out! The word on the street is that things are being worked on but nobody is coming in for a purchase so I don't think it will get resolved in the next year. Maybe two more but we will see. Lots of questions between the Province, the town, and the environmentalists.



There are not a tone of lots for sale right now but the few that are on the market are not moving quickly. People are still sitting back and new construction is going to be fairly stagnant for a while longer. We may see some infill development but at a very muted pace. The biggest market seems to be renovations.



Silvertip isn't going anywhere either! The market is saturated and the developer knows it! They however have the backing to sit on this one and when the time comes will move fairly quickly.



All in all, there are opportunities if you have a long term view or can get in and out of the market quickly.
 

housingrental

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
4,733
No it has not

Blood will follow blood

Markets can be very sticky on the downside

Lots of time still to go...
 

Thomas Beyer

0
REIN Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
13,881
[quote user=housingrental]Blood will follow blood
boohoo ..



AB rocks again .. [note: oil over $100] and last time I checked Canmore is in AB .. and only 1h from Calgary .. and the last stop to buy real estate in AB going west .. until you hit either Invermere or Golden .. both 2h more hours !



Canmore, as both a suburb to Calgary and an international resort destination with 4 season recreational activities, sandwiched between mountains, regional, provincial and federal parks will always have higher values than Calgary for a similar property .. by around 25-50% depending on location !



Canmore is like an island .. 100 km from a major city and airport .. always more expensive than the actual city !
 

wgraham

0
REIN Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
617
ok Adam, just because it looks like you went on a "let's see how many posts can I respond to with as few words as possible" spree I am going to hold your feet to the fire.



Please explain what it is you mean and.....what intimate local knowledge do you have of this market and its direction? Please show enlighten us.
 

housingrental

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
4,733
Hi

To clarify I had not logged on to REIN for 2-3 weeks last week when I logged on and try to briefly go through all new posts.... I have responded to you a minute ago in another thread with content that should help provide my perspective if not clear prior...... I do not have intimate knowledge of Canmore but will say the most likely scenario that I see playing out is second home type markets will be hit the hardest over the next ten years as debt levels change.......



[quote user=wgraham] ok Adam, just because it looks like you went on a "let's see how many posts can I respond to with as few words as possible" spree I am going to hold your feet to the fire.



Please explain what it is you mean and.....what intimate local knowledge do you have of this market and its direction? Please show enlighten us.
 

housingrental

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
4,733
Why the hate for a perspective that differs from your viewpoint of the world?

Where's the love Thomas?



[quote user=ThomasBeyer][quote user=housingrental]Blood will follow blood
boohoo ..
 

EdRenkema

0
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
1,230
[quote user=housingrental]I do not have intimate knowledge of Canmore but will say the most likely scenario
You say you don't know - then you say you do...

Should I believe Adam who I'm guessing has never even set foot in Canmore or should I believe two successful investors with extensive experience and residents of Canmore?

hmmm lets see, trickly question...
 

Thomas Beyer

0
REIN Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
13,881
[quote user=housingrental]Where's the love Thomas?


facts man .. facts ..



I used to live in Canmore, AB for almost 10 years .. and I know the market fairly well .. so my opinion on Canmore (or Wade's for that matter) count as he lives there too .. although he invests mainly in the Calgary region as Canmore is quite expensive and too tough to cash-flow ..



I love Canmore .. and this blog and its wide audience and (usually) informed opinions ... among many other things !!



Keep it factual bro' .. love is hard to share on a blog ..
 

housingrental

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
4,733
Yes...

Just like how I had never been to Alberta but still told all of my clients + anyone who talked Alberta real estate with me that I thought it was at high risk of correction prior to it falling..... I might have been wrong... I was not... I might be wrong on this... Only time will tell....

You do not have to live in a community or ever be there to form opinions on valuations..... I might choose to invest or sell shares in a clothing seller in USA and never visit there stores... same idea



[quote user=EdRenkema][quote user=housingrental]I do not have intimate knowledge of Canmore but will say the most likely scenario
You say you don't know - then you say you do...

Should I believe Adam who I'm guessing has never even set foot in Canmore or should I believe two successful investors with extensive experience and residents of Canmore?

hmmm lets see, trickly question...
 

housingrental

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
4,733
Yup and you two likely have far more insights to provide on the rentability and other issues of purchasing X property on X street... But are no more credible a source than an informed real estate investor from Anchorage is on direction of asset prices....





[quote user=ThomasBeyer][quote user=housingrental]Where's the love Thomas?


facts man .. facts ..



I used to live in Canmore, AB for almost 10 years .. and I know the market fairly well .. so my opinion on Canmore (or Wade's for that matter) count as he lives there too .. although he invests mainly in the Calgary region as Canmore is quite expensive and too tough to cash-flow ..



I love Canmore .. and this blog and its wide audience and (usually) informed opinions ... among many other things !!



Keep it factual bro' .. love is hard to share on a blog ..
 

Rickson9

0
Registered
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,210
[quote user=housingrental]But are no more credible a source than an informed real estate investor from Anchorage is on direction of asset prices....






I agree.



The future of asset prices cannot be predicted despite the conviction of opinions by individuals to the contrary.



Best regards.
 

Thomas Beyer

0
REIN Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
13,881
[quote user=Rickson9]The future of asset prices cannot be predicted despite the conviction of opinions by individuals to the contrary.


I would disagree with this statement.



Of course no one can precisely predict the future. But one can estimate direction and pace in that direction.



An informed opinion, based on in-depth research and facts, by a person or group, has some value, after said group/person has studied: in-migration, job growth, income levels & growth, current prices, interest rates, inflation, oil prices etc. .. one can come up with an estimate or at least direction of value growth or decline !
 

EdRenkema

0
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
1,230
[quote user=ThomasBeyer]An informed opinion,


I had to go back to the OP to check what we were actually discussing, this thread actually went on a tangent (no harm done) discussing property values in general and how/when/where/why to predict them. Wade simply wished to discuss the direction of Canmore property values in the near future. Those who know Canmore can accurately say it is sort of an island due to its proximity to Calgary, boundaried by Banff, and a well known climbing & ourdoorsy mecca.

Those who live in Canmore and have experience analyzing economic variables can predict the direction of values based on supply & demand. Definitely the traction of the oil industry in Ab. will add to the momentum of Canmore's market.

Simply put: look at the economy of Alberta and talk to an experienced, well informed local about Canmore to get an accurate picture.
 

bizaro86

0
Registered
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
1,025
[quote user=Rickson9]The future of asset prices cannot be predicted despite the conviction of opinions by individuals to the contrary.



Best regards.



I think assets of any kind when bought with a large margin of safety as compared to their intrinsic value from cashflow (whether real estate/small business/share of stock/carwash/etc) have significant likelihood of appreciating in value as the market as a whole recognizes the value.



Regards,



Michael
 
Top Bottom