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Heating equipment

Mike56

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I am looking at a multi-unit property that is currently heated with 30 year old baseboard heaters. As the heating is paid by the landlord I am thinking that there would be an opportunity to reduce the electric bill by replacing these units. I am looking for input by anyone who has experienced this type of upgrade, equipment you may recommend and would be interested in the savings produced.

Thanks,
Mike
 

realfortin

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QUOTE (Mike56 @ Feb 21 2009, 05:43 AM) I am looking at a multi-unit property that is currently heated with 30 year old baseboard heaters. As the heating is paid by the landlord I am thinking that there would be an opportunity to reduce the electric bill by replacing these units. I am looking for input by anyone who has experienced this type of upgrade, equipment you may recommend and would be interested in the savings produced.

Thanks,
Mike
Electric baseboard heaters are generally close to 100% energy efficient... unless it is faulty, the only thing you need to do to is take the cover off and clean them to ensure a good airflow.
What you may save a lot if you change the thermostats to programmable ones and the tenants allow you to take the temperature down to 18 degrees at night. If they don`t want programmable ones, at least get electronic ones. The old ones are never accurate and tenants have a habit of shoving them on to full, then regretting it, opening windows etc. Old ones are also a single switch, they put 100% of power to the heater or none at all. Electronic ones, when they are close to the right temperature reduce the power to the heater so it brings the last degree of heat up slowly, and when the temperature goes down, it applies smaller amounts of power to keep the tempearture up. This results in a smaller fluctuation of temperature. With old ones, by the time it gets to the desired temperature the heater is really hot and will continue to heat above the temperature you want before it shuts off. Once it shuts off, it waits until the room cools too much before it then turns on, and then it`s at 100% again, resulting ina less stable heat where the tenants are likely to incresed the thermostat to well above 21 degrees.
Imagine driving your car where you can only have full throttle or no throttle, not very efficient or comfortable.

Real
 

jeffjas

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QUOTE (realfortin @ Feb 21 2009, 03:32 PM) Electric baseboard heaters are generally close to 100% energy efficient... unless it is faulty, the only thing you need to do to is take the cover off and clean them to ensure a good airflow.
What you may save a lot if you change the thermostats to programmable ones and the tenants allow you to take the temperature down to 18 degrees at night. If they don`t want programmable ones, at least get electronic ones. The old ones are never accurate and tenants have a habit of shoving them on to full, then regretting it, opening windows etc. Old ones are also a single switch, they put 100% of power to the heater or none at all. Electronic ones, when they are close to the right temperature reduce the power to the heater so it brings the last degree of heat up slowly, and when the temperature goes down, it applies smaller amounts of power to keep the tempearture up. This results in a smaller fluctuation of temperature. With old ones, by the time it gets to the desired temperature the heater is really hot and will continue to heat above the temperature you want before it shuts off. Once it shuts off, it waits until the room cools too much before it then turns on, and then it`s at 100% again, resulting ina less stable heat where the tenants are likely to incresed the thermostat to well above 21 degrees.
Imagine driving your car where you can only have full throttle or no throttle, not very efficient or comfortable.

Real


I assume the units are metered seperately for electricity, so why don`t you just proceed with a withdrawal of service letter informing the tenants that electricity will no longer be included in the rent and that the rent will be reduced by $XX amount to compensate. Now you`re off the hook for heat and you may end up increasing monthly cash flow.

I`m a big fan of having all expenses placed on a monthly budget including utilities, insurance, taxes, etc.

I just wish you could do water on a monthly plan in my city.
 

bigbabba

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stay away from electrical heat, they are poor for providing heat..especially baseboards since they arent forced..I would do a conversion to NG forced furnace..I know people paying $400-500/monthly just to heat their own residence in the winter..never mind about multi unit.
 

housedoc

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QUOTE (jessandy @ Feb 21 2009, 07:05 PM) http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/intern...ard_heaters.pdf

Gee.....a hydro company telling you that "Electric baseboard heaters are generally close to 100% energy efficient"...??????
That may be true if you`re standing on the coil.
But how `efficient/effective` are they at converting $$ into a warm living space?
The clear payoff would probably be the relative ease of installing new electric and programable or electronic thermostats over the cost of installation of anything else.
 

Mike56

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Thank you for all the useful information you have supplied. Just to give you some additional information these units are under contract with a government social housing program for the next 8 years. One of the conditions of the contract is that all utilities are covered by the landlord and included in the rent that is subsidized by the program. This precludes me from having the tenants pay the electrical bills. Believe me the cash flow is large of this property. Based on the information that has been supplied I wouldl have the 30 year old base board units inspected and determine if they should be replaced but I would have all thermostates changed. Again thank you to all for you input.

Thanks,
Mike
 

bigbabba

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thermostats are going to do didly, the bottom line is that electric BB heaters take alot longer to heat up an area then a gas forced furnace, so therefore they consume alot of hydro. Take it from a guy who works in the trade.
 

NorthernAlex

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QUOTE (jeffjas @ Feb 21 2009, 08:18 PM) I assume the units are metered seperately for electricity, so why don`t you just proceed with a withdrawal of service letter informing the tenants that electricity will no longer be included in the rent and that the rent will be reduced by $XX amount to compensate. Now you`re off the hook for heat and you may end up increasing monthly cash flow. .....

Jeffjas,
are you sure that the Residential Tenancies Act in Ontario supports that?

I thought it could not be changed, because the Rental Agreement was made with tenant which included hydro. Changing it would need the confirmation of the tenants.

Anyhow, heating season will end soon, so it wouldn`t make sense now to change it until fall 09.
 
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