I own a semi which is a rental property. My 25 yr old neighbour who has a six yr old son, abandoned by her partner and ready to deliver a baby in 3 wks, a power of sale notice in her hand (her partners house), her heat had just been cut off and crying, asked if she could rent my place. She had applied for Ontario Works and I said yes. She signed a lease, moved some of her belongings to my place and I gave her a key. I do not want this woman to move in. She has told me several times that was going to give me last months rent, she has not and has avoided me. The things she has moved to my house are filthy. What recourse do I have for not allowing her to move in and to remove her possessions immediately.
Change the door lock today for around $30. I`m assuming based on your lease she does not have the right to enter your property without paying last month rent. period.
The fact that you made a mistake and gave her the key too early does NOT mean she legally became a tenant. she didn`t even stay there one night.
you made a mistake and for security reasons fixed it by changing the lock! she will become a tenant IF she pays and you will honor the lease by giving her the new key then.
Good luck and please learn from this cheap mistake.
The fact that you made a mistake and gave her the key too early does NOT mean she legally became a tenant. she didn`t even stay there one night.
you made a mistake and for security reasons fixed it by changing the lock! she will become a tenant IF she pays and you will honor the lease by giving her the new key then.
Good luck and please learn from this cheap mistake.
QUOTE (barb @ Dec 30 2009, 04:28 PM) .. What recourse do I have for not allowing her to move in and to remove her possessions immediately.
non-payment of rent .. BUT: you have to follow the landlord tenant rules for eviction .. and that may take a few days to a few weeks depending on province !
The EASIEST for you is hand her some CASH and pre-pay for 2 month in aother place .. if she leaves right now .. and help her find a new place elsewhere .. this maybe $2500 total .. but a problem solved for you and her !
non-payment of rent .. BUT: you have to follow the landlord tenant rules for eviction .. and that may take a few days to a few weeks depending on province !
The EASIEST for you is hand her some CASH and pre-pay for 2 month in aother place .. if she leaves right now .. and help her find a new place elsewhere .. this maybe $2500 total .. but a problem solved for you and her !
QUOTE (investmart @ Dec 30 2009, 05:35 PM) The fact that you made a mistake and gave her the key too early does NOT mean she legally became a tenant. she didn`t even stay there one night...
I beg to differ .. both parties signed a lease .. you gave her a key AND she moved in .. thus: a VALID ENFORCABLE CONTRACT / lease exists !!
Of course you made a mistake .. and likely the changing of lock will do the trick .. BUT you then are in violation of the landlord-tenant act. If she acts upon that violation though is of course another question !
I beg to differ .. both parties signed a lease .. you gave her a key AND she moved in .. thus: a VALID ENFORCABLE CONTRACT / lease exists !!
Of course you made a mistake .. and likely the changing of lock will do the trick .. BUT you then are in violation of the landlord-tenant act. If she acts upon that violation though is of course another question !
QUOTE (ThomasBeyer @ Dec 30 2009, 06:48 PM) I beg to differ .. both parties signed a lease .. you gave her a key AND she moved in .. thus: a VALID ENFORCABLE CONTRACT / lease exists !!
Of course you made a mistake .. and likely the changing of lock will do the trick .. BUT you then are in violation of the landlord-tenant act. If she acts upon that violation though is of course another question !
she didn`t stay there even one night AND did not pay as she should have based on the lease! Therefore, I can not imagine any reasonable person
taking this to court as a tenant, and can not imagine any judge taking such a complaint seriously. Yes, he made a mistake giving the key but the judge is not stupid, and will not punish an owner for something (giving the key too early) that caused damage to himself ONLY - the need to replace his door lock.
Of course you made a mistake .. and likely the changing of lock will do the trick .. BUT you then are in violation of the landlord-tenant act. If she acts upon that violation though is of course another question !
she didn`t stay there even one night AND did not pay as she should have based on the lease! Therefore, I can not imagine any reasonable person
taking this to court as a tenant, and can not imagine any judge taking such a complaint seriously. Yes, he made a mistake giving the key but the judge is not stupid, and will not punish an owner for something (giving the key too early) that caused damage to himself ONLY - the need to replace his door lock.
You said she has promised to give you last months rent. Did she already give you first months rent?
What date is stated in the lease as the start date for occupancy.
If she has paid first month rent, or if the start date of the lease has past giving her the key has completed the legal transaction and you have a legal tenant.
If not then you may be able to stop the transaction by changing the locks. It will depend on her reaction to being denied access and her knowledge of her rights.
Hope and pray she does not get duty council to represent her at the LTB if it gets that far.
Document every detail and always have a witness present during any conversations with the woman.
What date is stated in the lease as the start date for occupancy.
If she has paid first month rent, or if the start date of the lease has past giving her the key has completed the legal transaction and you have a legal tenant.
If not then you may be able to stop the transaction by changing the locks. It will depend on her reaction to being denied access and her knowledge of her rights.
Hope and pray she does not get duty council to represent her at the LTB if it gets that far.
Document every detail and always have a witness present during any conversations with the woman.
Hi Barb
I like Thomas and Greg`s post
Please note that following the advice in Neils post has the potential to end in CRIMINAL CHARGES for you!
I`m not certain what your situation is... but I`d recommend you immediately check through ltb website or phone a paralegal before taking any action... but do this FAST....
I like Thomas and Greg`s post
Please note that following the advice in Neils post has the potential to end in CRIMINAL CHARGES for you!
I`m not certain what your situation is... but I`d recommend you immediately check through ltb website or phone a paralegal before taking any action... but do this FAST....
QUOTE (housingrental @ Dec 31 2009, 05:31 PM) Hi Barb
I like Thomas and Greg`s post
Please note that following the advice in Neils post has the potential to end in CRIMINAL CHARGES for you!
I`m not certain what your situation is... but I`d recommend you immediately check through ltb website or phone a paralegal before taking any action... but do this FAST....
I like Thomas and Greg`s post
Please note that following the advice in Neils post has the potential to end in CRIMINAL CHARGES for you!
I`m not certain what your situation is... but I`d recommend you immediately check through ltb website or phone a paralegal before taking any action... but do this FAST....
I contacted the tribunal and was told that because I had given her a key, she was legally a tenant and to change the locks is illegal on my part. I spoke with her today and thought I had everything sorted out, but then her father called me tonight and accused me of not being understanding. I lost it and told him to get her things out tomorrow. (No money has passed hands btw). He informed me that he would contact "his" lawyer.
Don`t worry about the tribunals answer at this time or the fathers threat to hire a lawyer.
What is the start date on the lease? Answer that question and I can tell you if you have a tenant or not.
Today is Jan 1 2010.
If this is the first day of the lease agreement and she still has the key/access she is your legal tenant. If you changed the lock yesterday and today is the first day of the lease you do not have a tenant.
As far as the tribunal is concerned the answer you get on the phone is wrong as often as it is right so move forward based on the lease agreement not on there opinion.
As far as the father is concerned it is far to early to worry about him and in the end he will likely disappear rather than spend money on a lawyer when it is far easier and cheaper to simply find his daughter another place to live. His biggest fear is she will want to move in with him which he will never want to happen.
What is the start date on the lease? Answer that question and I can tell you if you have a tenant or not.
Today is Jan 1 2010.
If this is the first day of the lease agreement and she still has the key/access she is your legal tenant. If you changed the lock yesterday and today is the first day of the lease you do not have a tenant.
As far as the tribunal is concerned the answer you get on the phone is wrong as often as it is right so move forward based on the lease agreement not on there opinion.
As far as the father is concerned it is far to early to worry about him and in the end he will likely disappear rather than spend money on a lawyer when it is far easier and cheaper to simply find his daughter another place to live. His biggest fear is she will want to move in with him which he will never want to happen.
QUOTE (barb @ Jan 1 2010, 10:37 AM) The lease begins today, but no one has shown up. I can still change the locks, they are ready.
Play a wait and see game. Maybe she`s looking elsewhere realizing that once she moves in there will be nothing but trouble with you. In the meantime I`d prepare the necessary eviction paperwork as though she were moving in.
If you lock her out now I`d say your asking for trouble.
With any luck she`ll be gone by tomorrow!
Play a wait and see game. Maybe she`s looking elsewhere realizing that once she moves in there will be nothing but trouble with you. In the meantime I`d prepare the necessary eviction paperwork as though she were moving in.
If you lock her out now I`d say your asking for trouble.
With any luck she`ll be gone by tomorrow!
QUOTE (invst4profit @ Jan 1 2010, 04:38 PM) Change the locks before she sets foot in the property. If she has paid nothing you must prevent her from entering the property or she will automatically become a tenant now that the start date of the lease is here.
Possession is 9/10 of the law.
Thank you so much for your help. The locks have been changed. No one has shown up today, nor have they tried to contact me. What do I do with her possessions that were stored there? Greg is there any chance I could get you to phone me? My # is 519-668-7041 or 519-872-0572. I have so many questions and concerns, I know they are going to show up tomorrow and I would like to be prepared. Thank you.
Possession is 9/10 of the law.
Thank you so much for your help. The locks have been changed. No one has shown up today, nor have they tried to contact me. What do I do with her possessions that were stored there? Greg is there any chance I could get you to phone me? My # is 519-668-7041 or 519-872-0572. I have so many questions and concerns, I know they are going to show up tomorrow and I would like to be prepared. Thank you.
QUOTE (barb @ Jan 1 2010, 03:13 PM) Thank you so much for your help. The locks have been changed. No one has shown up today, nor have they tried to contact me. What do I do with her possessions that were stored there? Greg is there any chance I could get you to phone me? My # is 519-668-7041 or 519-872-0572. I have so many questions and concerns, I know they are going to show up tomorrow and I would like to be prepared. Thank you.
Greg won`t save you.
If the tenant gets FREE legal aid, you are SUNK. Pray they are intimidated and weak, otherwise you are on the line for months of rent and potential criminal charges.
Which, you should be! You invited them in, signed a lease, and are now trying to walk away. You are in the wrong.
Greg won`t save you.
If the tenant gets FREE legal aid, you are SUNK. Pray they are intimidated and weak, otherwise you are on the line for months of rent and potential criminal charges.
Which, you should be! You invited them in, signed a lease, and are now trying to walk away. You are in the wrong.
QUOTE (Richeson @ Jan 2 2010, 12:09 AM) Greg won`t save you.
If the tenant gets FREE legal aid, you are SUNK. Pray they are intimidated and weak, otherwise you are on the line for months of rent and potential criminal charges.
Which, you should be! You invited them in, signed a lease, and are now trying to walk away. You are in the wrong.
Relax Barb. The statements above are wrong and amount to nothing more than fear mongering.
Allowing someone a space to store belongings and signing a rental lease does not constitute a legal binding agreement. To be legal both sides must fulfill the requirements of the lease agreement. Since the potential tenant has not fulfilled there legal obligation (payment) the lease agreement is terminated.
If the tenant gets FREE legal aid, you are SUNK. Pray they are intimidated and weak, otherwise you are on the line for months of rent and potential criminal charges.
Which, you should be! You invited them in, signed a lease, and are now trying to walk away. You are in the wrong.
Relax Barb. The statements above are wrong and amount to nothing more than fear mongering.
Allowing someone a space to store belongings and signing a rental lease does not constitute a legal binding agreement. To be legal both sides must fulfill the requirements of the lease agreement. Since the potential tenant has not fulfilled there legal obligation (payment) the lease agreement is terminated.
Hi Greg
I think some caution is needing in advising Barb
You might be correct but she didn`t provide full info needed to make a determination.
QUOTE (invst4profit @ Jan 2 2010, 03:35 PM) Relax Barb. The statements above are wrong and amount to nothing more than fear mongering.
Allowing someone a space to store belongings and signing a rental lease does not constitute a legal binding agreement. To be legal both sides must fulfill the requirements of the lease agreement. Since the potential tenant has not fulfilled there legal obligation (payment) the lease agreement is terminated.
I think some caution is needing in advising Barb
You might be correct but she didn`t provide full info needed to make a determination.
QUOTE (invst4profit @ Jan 2 2010, 03:35 PM) Relax Barb. The statements above are wrong and amount to nothing more than fear mongering.
Allowing someone a space to store belongings and signing a rental lease does not constitute a legal binding agreement. To be legal both sides must fulfill the requirements of the lease agreement. Since the potential tenant has not fulfilled there legal obligation (payment) the lease agreement is terminated.