Help I think I have a drug house?

[cassj]

So we tried to help a young couple that was 19 and expecting a baby right away. They had been sent to us through the subsidized rent program. They were desperate to find them a good home and we wanted to help. Checked all references and past landlords with no red flags. Only concern was girl was pregnant and guy was unemployed on disability. They have been there 3 months now and my suspiscions have been getting stronger that they are trafficing, growing, or both. They lost their baby on the third day that they moved in. We felt awful for them and made arrangements with housing authourity for them to keep their funding. We figured that they had lost enough. They seem so genuine! After the REIN meeting where we were made aware of what to watch out for with a drug house, my suspicsions started to rise. All the windows, even the one in the door are heavily covered. The electricity billed has doubled, and they NEVER leave the house unattended. When they know that I am coming to collect rent or whatever they meet me at the front gate. I have tried to surprise visit and if they are not home they always have a friend watching the house so they say. The basement tenants have left and have now informed me that they were smoking pot every night and that they were offered various drugs when they went to the door to complain about something.

So I am wondering what I should do now? They have had an excuse every month so far as far as rent goes. Do I wait until the first and hope that they are late with rent so that I can serve a 14 day eviction notice? I have contacted the "Drug Unit" and they advised me based on who the tenants are to get them out. They said that they are going to park a marked police car out front to do his paperwork daily and that should help to detour some clients as well as them. He said that there really were not a lot of options available to the police to deal with these situations. The police officer confirmed that he personally knew the tenants and had no doubt that they were dealing but didn`t think they were smart enough to have a grow op. Nice!

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[dobiso]

Hi Cass,



I feel for you and I wish this would never happen to any of us. There was a REIN member Rebecca that this happened recently and she dealt with it quite strongly. I followed that post entitled "Error Screening Tenant". Here's the link to that post:



http://myreinspace.com/rein_members_only/Legal/85-4746-Error_Screening_Tenant.html



Let us know how it goes.

Good luck!

 

[cassj]

Thanks Dexter,
I did read that post and I am still hoping that someone has a suggestion for me. I am also a rookie REIN member and I am just looking for the best and quickest way to get rid of them. (I`m sure this is always what everyone wants). Thanks for your post. Appreciate it.
Cass

 

[klm]

QUOTE (cassj @ May 27 2008, 09:29 PM) Thanks Dexter,
I did read that post and I am still hoping that someone has a suggestion for me. I am also a rookie REIN member and I am just looking for the best and quickest way to get rid of them. (I`m sure this is always what everyone wants). Thanks for your post. Appreciate it.
Cass


hi there,

we had a similar type of thing with one of our properties in gp. we got a tip from our tenants coworker whom we knew that he had just recently started a small grow op. we simply watched the house in the am until the male tenant left the premises, only the girlfriend there. then went to the door stating we received a call from a neighbor re a gas smell near the house and we needed to investigate and wouldn`t take no for an answer. simply barged past her. she said you can`t do this you need to give notice . 2 minutes later she was told the only notice she was getting was an eviction notice and if she had an issue with my no notice entry to call the police.

they were gone in less than a week. i`m not suggesting that you do this as all circumstances are different but i`d rather take the slap on the fingers for no notice than see my property trashed.

best of luck

 

[Merriora]

I wouldn`t wait to see if I were you...If they are making good money from conducting business in your home, they will be smart enough to pay you on time every month while quickly destroying your home.

What city is this home in? The reason I ask is because many larger police dept would be happy to conduct buy and bust operations on your home if it is active. If they offered to sell drugs to your downstairs tenants, then it sounds like they will sell to anyone which makes police projects that much easier. You stated that you got a hold of the drug unit, but then later stated that the officer will do his paperwork outside your house? Either this person is not in the drug unit or you live in a small town I presume.

If you live in a larger city, then I would begin to record how many people come and go from the house and at what hours. Once you have this information, you can present it to the proper people in the police force to setup a project during the peak times. If you are lucky, they will get enough information for a search warrant and enter the premise. Perhaps talk with your neighbours and see if any of them would be willing to help out in getting rid of the bad neighbours. Officers often need a good `eye` (neighbours window) to watch the action and record deals as they occur.

Officer presence works when an officer is there, but I doubt he will stick around there 24/7. As soon as he stops hanging out in the area, the house will become active again.

Best of luck, I know this can be frustrating.

 

[RebeccaBryan]

Cassj,

They are breaking the law. They don`t like attention. My method worked beautifully and I didn`t even end up paying them one dime of their deposit back because they had no right to it as they were breaking the law. I would have gladly given it back if they had done exactly as I had asked. To bad criminals are so stupid.

You need to make a decision. As soon as they know that you are forthright in your decision to get them out they will be making plans to leave.

Your first step should be to give them a 24 hour notice and take a camera with you to take pictures. Take a couple of large people with you if you can as well that look mean. That helps.

It`s your property and they don`t have a right to use it for illegal purposes.

You said you read the above post, what is stopping you from taking action?

 

[ChrisDavies]

QUOTE (RebeccaBryan @ May 28 2008, 04:17 AM) Cassj,
Your first step should be to give them a 24 hour notice and take a camera with you to take pictures. Take a couple of large people with you.

I second the motion. Evidence is #1 in getting this taken care of. Then, if you`re in the Edmonton area, go directly to file with RTDRS.

 

[RebeccaBryan]

One more thing, if you`re wishy washy about eviction, and don`t know your rights you should be hiring an expert. An expert will cost you a lot less in the long run, especially if you are procrastinating.

The drug dealers I evicted through persistence and determination were only in my property for 20 days. The pungent smell that I had to get rid of took me about 30 days. After cleaning the carpets, and realizing the "odd odor" was not just going to disappear, I used some of those odor cakes you can buy in Rona and they worked well.

My point here is, just because they are paying you the rent, there is damage being done to your property without a doubt, even if it is just odor.

I think the tenants I had used this pungent perfume smell to cover up drug odors. It was there from the first day they moved in which I thought was odd.

Anyway, I hope you are taking action.

 

[SamEfford]

Hi Cassi,

Hire a professional and get them out. This is not something that an investor can normally handle, albeit there are several exceptions to this rule. If you are feeling over your head, have someone get them out, and then get the home rent-ready and learn from this experience.

REIN teaches us to give back, and I hope that you are not deterred from that due to one unfortunate mishap.

Good luck!

 

[cassj]

Good Morning everyone.
Thank you for all your input. It is reassuring to know that there is help out there. This house is situated in Lethbridge, AB. We do have a large drug enforcement unit, but they pretty much told me to get them out and not worry about trying to "bust" them. So without solid evidence or proof of drug activity can I evict them based on this activity. They have also neglected the yard and the basement tenant left now because of them. They didn`t tell me anything until they were gone because they said that they were threatened and that both their vehicle tires were slashed after telling them to quiet down. I understand that these are also grounds for eviction. But are they strong enough? Do I let them know that I am aware of their activities? I thought my best course of action would be to try and collect rent on the 1st and then give them a 14 day eviction letter on the 2nd. I drafted a letter last night that basically said that I was having the house monitored, recording licence plates and persons entering and leaving the building and that the police would be increasing their presence as well. I stated the above three reasons for eviction since I don`t have evidence of the drug activity. If I give them the eviction notice today I am sure that I won`t get rent for sure! Is it better to just get it rolling or at least get my rent in case it takes a little more time. Or should I post a 24 hour notice of inspection and get in the property? What can I really look at in the inspection? Can I open closets and doors? Wouldn`t it be easy to hide drugs out of my sight if they are not growing? Should I look in registers or other spots? Is notice of an inspection the better route or just showing up unannounced for a "gas leak" as KLM above did? I know I need them out but I am hazy on the best couse of action. Thank you, thank you for all your support.

By the way, I don`t live in Lethbridge myself. I live about 45 mins South so I can`t be there driving by and taking notes all the time.

 

[RebeccaBryan]

My action would be to give them a 24 hour notice, take an extra person with you so they can work the camera. You are going in to check for damages to your property and you have a right to look anywhere you choose. Tell them in your notice exactly what they can expect from you when you visit. Let them know you will be looking in closets, and taking pictures. Then they won`t be surprised and you will not feel uncomfortable doing it.

Remember to treat them with absolute respect as you want your propety back and you want in undamaged. Let them know your concerns. Ask them why all the windows and doors are covered. It`s your right to know. Ask them questions about everything you are wondering about. Ask them to explain why the electricity bill is so high. Tell them that this is one of the reasons that you must inspect the property. Tell them that previous tenants did not use near the amount of electricity that they are and that you need to go in and see what they are using to suck up so much power. This is very reasonable and completely understandable. Just be upfront.

You have a right to take care of your property, and if you are paying the electricity, you need to find out if what they are plugging in is a breach of the tenancy contract.
Just tell them that.

Let them know what you suspect, you`re not making accusations, you`re just telling them what you suspect and the reasons why and you`re asking them to prove to you otherwise so you can have peace of mind.

Your letter needs to be forthright and clear.

Don`t say anything you don`t intend on following through with. Do as you say you are going to do and follow through just as you would parent your child.

Hope that helps. And call me if you want a specific question answered. I`d be glad to help.

 

[adriano]

I`m not sure where you are but can`t you give them notice to move and tell them that you will be moving in yourself?
adriano

 

[Gerhardt]

QUOTE (cassj @ May 28 2008, 12:56 PM) Good Morning everyone.
Thank you for all your input. It is reassuring to know that there is help out there. This house is situated in Lethbridge, AB. We do have a large drug enforcement unit, but they pretty much told me to get them out and not worry about trying to "bust" them. So without solid evidence or proof of drug activity can I evict them based on this activity. They have also neglected the yard and the basement tenant left now because of them. They didn`t tell me anything until they were gone because they said that they were threatened and that both their vehicle tires were slashed after telling them to quiet down. I understand that these are also grounds for eviction. But are they strong enough? Do I let them know that I am aware of their activities? I thought my best course of action would be to try and collect rent on the 1st and then give them a 14 day eviction letter on the 2nd. I drafted a letter last night that basically said that I was having the house monitored, recording licence plates and persons entering and leaving the building and that the police would be increasing their presence as well. I stated the above three reasons for eviction since I don`t have evidence of the drug activity. If I give them the eviction notice today I am sure that I won`t get rent for sure! Is it better to just get it rolling or at least get my rent in case it takes a little more time. Or should I post a 24 hour notice of inspection and get in the property? What can I really look at in the inspection? Can I open closets and doors? Wouldn`t it be easy to hide drugs out of my sight if they are not growing? Should I look in registers or other spots? Is notice of an inspection the better route or just showing up unannounced for a "gas leak" as KLM above did? I know I need them out but I am hazy on the best couse of action. Thank you, thank you for all your support.

By the way, I don`t live in Lethbridge myself. I live about 45 mins South so I can`t be there driving by and taking notes all the time.

You need to deal with this immediately. Every day you wait, damage is being done. Call a bailiff service and get a 24 hour eviction notice. The eviction is simply for threatening the other tenants. That is grounds for a 24 hour breach - get a copy of the landlord/tenant bylaws. The money you pay a bailiff is more than worth it. We had a similar experience, and the only thing I would do diffently is take action sooner! If you have further questions, contact you Lethbridge Landlord and Tenant Board, or there is an Alberta Government Agency here in Edmonton for Landlords and Tenants. I wish you all the best! You will learn a TONNE from this situation.

 

[cassj]

Thank you for all your input. After some very useful information from Rebecca, I served a 24 hr inspection notice today to view the property and establish damage. When I gave it to them they were calm, but not much later I received a very irrate phone call. He had called the police to see if I could do that and they informed him that I could. He said he would let me and only me in and that I was not allowed to take pictures. My partners name was on the notice and he says that he was refusing to let him in since I had never introduced them prior. Later I talked to his girlfriend and she assures me that they have no problem with the inspection and have nothing to hide. Before I gave them the notice he asked me if they could have access to the basement while it was empty this week because he wanted to hook up cable and they told him that they needed access to the electrical box. I told him that I never heard of cable running through an electrical panel and that I would not be giving him access. (am I wrong?) Lasr week he wanted me to rent the basement to his friend. When I reviewed his application, he`s an electritian. NO!! He threatened to report my suited house to the city and sue me for slander. I did stop by and talk to the neighbours and let them know my suspiscions and they confirmed what I thought. They agreed to keep their eyes open and record any funny business and/or licence plates that they could. They said that the traffic there is unreal and that a car would pull up with 4 kids in it and one would get out, go inside and come out a few minutes later. HMMMMM!

So I will do an inspection on Friday afternoon, not that I expect to find anything, but I will gain peace of mind that all is in tack. I am sure that they will get rid of anything they don`t want. When they called me back right after I left the notice they said to come right now and do it. I declined and said that I wanted to follow the laws set out, plus I was busy. So I am fairly confident that I will find nothing, they gave me rent checks tonight, so if rent is paid on time, what else can I do? I can`t evict based on theory and no hard evidence, can I? The basement tenant is not willing to confirm anything to anyone else but me was the impression she left me with today. Do I just have to wait for them to mess up? They deny having any conflict whatsoever with the basement tennant and say that she was bad mouthing me. Isn`t it just hearsay then? I just want them out! I know now that they will not go without a fight and a ruckus.

Without the support of REIN, with this having been my first property, I am sure that I would have been scared, discouraged and ran the other way. No doubt I would have given up and sold. This group and these boards are awesome.Thank you again!

Cass

 

[willy]

QUOTE (cassj @ May 29 2008, 03:37 AM) I told him that I never heard of cable running through an electrical panel and that I would not be giving him access. (am I wrong?)

In a lot of houses, cable and phone junctions are in the same location as the electrical panel. I wouldn`t just give them access to the basement though. Insist on being there yourself or have somebody you trust let the technician in. Don`t give your tennants the key (it`ll be copied) and only let the technician in, not them. Ask for id and record the technician name, company name, employee number, when he went in, when he left. Watch him while he works. Don`t just let him in, then step out for a smoke or fresh air, as so many do.

w

 

[Graham]

You have my sympathy - though I readily acknowledge that it is not really going to help in this situation. Virtually the same initial scenario happened to me as well. I tried to help a couple with two children - and it later turned out that shortly after they moved in, Children`s Aid took the little girls out of the home for foster care and then there were the usual late night visits from suspicious people and the other tenants became afraid. Drug use was their downfall. I also think that the fellow might have borrowed money and he was afraid of the rather large people who collect debts. I had to go through the Ontario Rent Tribunal to secure an eviction for non-payment. Once they were evicted with the assistance of the local sheriff and I cleaned up the apartment, I certainly changed my attitude with respect to screening prospects - they qualify or they don`t. (I wish that I had listened to the emotionless approach.)
I now have excellent tenants and, once this exercise is finished, I am certain that you will too.
Good luck and best wishes.

Graham A.

 

[invst4profit]

Cass

You have recieved some very good advice and lots of emotional support on this forum to this point.
Now some harsh reality.
You have all the evidance you need to confirm your tenants are drug dealers. Everything you have been told confirms that including the police.
WHAT more do you need?
Harsh reality #1 you are failing landlording 101.
You went into this business not knowing the rules and now that you have a problem you are looking for easy solutions.
The advice you have recieved should have motivated you to evict days ago and all you have done is give notice to inspect. What are you waiting for?
Your investment, and life, is being controted by low life scum bags and you need to get it back or get out of the rental business now.
You are knowingly renting to drug dealers. The rent you recieve is from drug money. Doesn`t that make you an accomplice. No but how do you feel about that.
You said "without REIN I would have been scared, discouraged and ran the other way". I say that is exactly what you are doing.
Evict them yesterday and stop making excuses by asking if you are allowed.
You are dealing with criminals.

Sorry for all that but I get tired of all the warm support and good advice everyone is giving when you still come across as being reluctant to act on that advice in anyway close to what is required. If you can`t do what is necessary hire someone who can.

Warm and fuzzy I am not. Landlording is a tough business even in the burbs. Get in or get out.

Reality bites.

 

[RebeccaBryan]

I completely agree with Greg.

You`re so worried about getting your rent for June that you`re willing to take drug money? That`s not OK.

And the cheques you received, once they figure out you are onto them, will bounce. And two weeks from now you will find that out if you don`t CERTIFY THEM!!!! So DO CERTIFY THEM!! If they haven`t paid you before by cheque, then they will bounce for certain. I guarantee it. 100% sure. This is based on the fact that they paid you late the very first month they moved in and then paid you VERY late the second month. Now it`s the third month............this is the month you won`t get paid at all. If you think I`m wrong, I`d like to place a bet.

Quit feeling sorry for these people. They lost their baby because of drugs for sure. Feel sorry for the baby, not for them. They don`t deserve your sympathy. They are playing on your heart strings and you are playing right into their hands. How long is it going to take you to get mad and evict? Have compassion for people that deserve compassion and donate to the cause of your choice. You`re making this your choice by not taking action. I would have a hard time looking in the mirror if I were housing a drug dealer that I quite obviously knew was one.

Right now you are donating to drug dealers and you are allowing them to live in a community that doesn`t welcome that kind of behaviour. Would you want your next door neighbor to be a drug dealer. Do the next door neighbors of your property have your contact number? Do they know who to complain to?

On the phone with you yesterday, I was wondering how you ever thought you could landlord and manage properties yourself if this is the way you were going to conduct yourself? Just admit this isn`t for you, and find someone else to manage for you!!!! You keep making excuses for not taking action and that`s just frustrating for all the people that are giving you sound advice.

You need to focus on what you are good at, which is buying properties, and leave the things you aren`t good at to someone else.

When I evicted my drug dealers. Look in the posts in my profile, I spent every hour and every day for 1 week and at the end of the week, I got exactly the result that I intended to get. I didn`t have kids and parental responsibilites to distract me. My youngest child is now 14. I couldn`t have done this when all 6 of my kids were under 12, and neither can you, with 3 kids. It`s just not possible. HIRE SOMEONE!!!!!

 

[cassj]

Morning,

I think you all misunderstand that I am not taking action and I am! I am however slightly hazy on the process. I talked with you Rebecca and you said to give them an inspection notice. I did that yesterday. My question was whether or not I can evict based on theory. I have no actual hard evidence or proof. Can I get an ordered eviction? How? Definetely I will hire someone to take care of this situation. Looking into that today. The tenant said that his bills are up to date and that I can`t do anything about it. I`m not looking for warm and fuzzy advice, but a more definitive answer of the "next step". What is the purpose of these boards if you can`t admit that you need help? I hope that my post helps someone else in the future. We can`t all be seasoned veterans at this.

 

[invst4profit]

Rebecca you clearly have more info than me.
Personally I feel I am a good landlord and bend over backwards for my tenants
but only when we develope a trusting relationship and only after midnight on
the first of the month if there rent is paid.
In this case, considering the loss of the baby, I would have given the tenant a eviction notice
the first month explaining it was standard practice not to worry and that they had 14 days to pay.
In Ontario 3 eviction notices for late payment is grounds to evict.
With new tenants on there first late they normally apologize and give some lame excuse.
I tell them they do not need to apologize and that no excuse or reason for paying late is necessary.
I further explain that if they need to make a choice between paying bills, buying food, burying a
relative or paying for a roof over there head and that there rent isn`t there first choice I do not want them as tenants. Beg, borrow or steal the money but pay your rent on time.
I am up front and inform them 2 more eviction notices for late payments and I automaticly evict.

One of my newest tenants I inherited from the previous landlord was late on her first rent and I highly suspect she is dealing drugs. She was reported to the police last year for growing pot in her back yard. She is a tough old hag that should prove interesting.
I gave her notice and suspect I will probably be involved in her eviction by year end.