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Investing in NB

mrembecki

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Hello,

I`ve had my eye on Saint John, NB. but have never invested out of province before. Is the best thing to contact an agent who specializes in that area first and utilize his/her expertise, referrals, etc. How about a property manager? Would they be the ones to contact first to gain a better understanding of rental info, ease of tenancy, etc. Or would a mortgage broker/agent be the key contact in order to find out exactly how much money is available, down payments, etc.

Second, what is the regular ease of borrowing towards triplexes, fourplexes? What is a typical down payment requirement?

Thanks Kindly,

Martin.
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (mrembecki @ Jan 26 2009, 11:52 AM)
I've had my eye on Saint John, NB. but have never invested out of province before. Is the best thing to contact an agent who specializes in that area first and utilize his/her expertise, referrals, etc. How about a property manager? Would they be the ones to contact first to gain a better understanding of rental info, ease of tenancy, etc. Or would a mortgage broker/agent be the key contact in order to find out exactly how much money is available, down payments, etc.



Second, what is the regular ease of borrowing towards triplexes, fourplexes? What is a typical down payment requirement?


any market needs in-depth research and a team on the ground: lawyer (licensed in NB), property manager (licensed in NB), realtor or 5 (licensed in NB), mortgage broker that know NB ..



5% down is theoretically possible if your networth & credit is strong and the income of the asset supports it !



related posts on how to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html



More difficult lending environment: http://myreinspace.com/public_forums1/Real_Estate_Discussion/62-6908-More_difficult_lending_environment_.html
 

kay

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I have recently met a few investors that purchased in St. John, NB.
They both used the same agent and were very happy with his service.
Let me know if you`d be interested in getting this contact and i can email it to you.
 

mrembecki

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QUOTE (kay @ Jan 26 2009, 08:39 PM) I have recently met a few investors that purchased in St. John, NB.
They both used the same agent and were very happy with his service.
Let me know if you`d be interested in getting this contact and i can email it to you.


Hey Kay,

That would be great, thanks!

you can email it to me if you wish: [email protected]

Thanks again
 

Sukhi

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QUOTE (kay @ Jan 26 2009, 05:39 PM) I have recently met a few investors that purchased in St. John, NB.
They both used the same agent and were very happy with his service.
Let me know if you`d be interested in getting this contact and i can email it to you.

Hi Kay I would also like to get the name of the realtor.I have been doing my research for the past few months and plan to head there later in the year.My email address is [email protected]
Thank you
 

adamturner

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QUOTE (kay @ Jan 26 2009, 06:39 PM) I have recently met a few investors that purchased in St. John, NB.
They both used the same agent and were very happy with his service.
Let me know if you`d be interested in getting this contact and i can email it to you.
Kay could you please send me the info on the realtor in NB as well.

Cheers Adam
 

Phantomtib

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I started researching fundamentals for Saint John, NB in December 2007. Heres what I gathered back then...

Why Saint John, NB.
lots of jobs, HUGE oil refinery, proposed 2nd refinery, US is hungry for more energy and prefers Canada over most other nations, and lastly very cheap housing.

Property Analysis. (this was done in 2007 dec... the property has sold now)
I just went to MLS.ca and found a random listing for a duplex in Saint John:
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.a...pertyID=5921967
Interest rates are between 3.5-6.25% (in my opinion are pretty low and makes the properties there pretty affordable.)
Ref: http://www.canequity.com/mortgage_services.stm
-(I’m not sure how accurate the site is nor how up to date it is)
Anyways, according to the mls listing... lets just round the price of the home to 100k. Assuming you don`t want to deal with CMHC, you put 25% down... which is a 25K investment.
You get a mortgage for 75k at let`s say 6.25% (highest rate found on the referenced site) your monthly payments turns out to be: $494.75 on a 25yr amoritization.
The upper floor rents for 500 and the lower floor for 800... that means you net $1350/month
Minus property taxes and maintenance fee`s (I`m just guessing a number around $300/month) you walk away with over $550 per month... that`s a $6600/yr if it`s rented out year round. (26.4% ROI!)
Being less optimistic and let`s say you only get 8/12 months occupied you still end up with 4400/year +/- (cashflow) that alone is a 17.6% ROI… (and that`s not even including possible appreaciation of the property or the principle you pay off your mortgage) which is huge- compared to mutual funds.
Unemployment rate as of Oct 07 is 5.1% which is still less than the national average at 6.1%... which means that there are jobs that are pulling more people into the area...
Ref: http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/citytrend.pdf
(calgary is at 3.2 or 3.1)
I’m not familiar with the economics there, so I wouldn’t know how much you would expect to gain/lose with respect to appreciation.
But by just looking at the possible cashflow alone your making 18% ROI… in that sense I think it’s definitely a good investment… unless you’re expecting Real estate in the area to drop by 7% anytime soon. But like you said you are expecting more oil refineries… so appreciation should be above inflation rate.

The owners of NB.
http://www.irvingoil.com/company/erock.asp
Irving is brutal...
They own New Brunswick...

Some bad things.
The whole city is dirty...You have a MASSIVE oil refinery polluting the entire city! Not to mention the pulp mill and the other industrial area polluting the water/air.

Recent News.
2009 summer Irving will start building its 2nd refinery.

Some Advice.
I`ve been out to Saint John, NB and its something i`d advise before buying any properties. The houses and apartments are all very old (100years+). Property inspections are a MUST and do careful due diligence when renting your units (lots of bad tenants). Almost every house I was going through had people with pet cats. Expect a lot of cats. Some of the houses have asbestos so be careful to ask because insurance wont cover your house! Oil heating is used in many of the homes. Its very warm but is dependant on oil prices. Lots of buildings are heritage buildings which makes it very difficult to do any type of renovations (you need approval from a heritage council). Germain st is probably one of the best streets to buy on. Next is probably king st and areas around mcallister mall. Red head rd area is good if you are banking on renting to construction workers for the refinery. Also, rothesay area is for the upper middle class who are probably more financially secure and better tenants.

Hope this helps a bit!
 

richardkp

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Hi Kay,
I am also looking into St John NB and would like the name of the realtor as well.
Thanks
Rich
 

MonteDobson

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I was just speaking to a contact of mine in Eastern Canada who is working on an exclusive investment option with a developer in Saint John, NB.This developer is selling off 40 newly constructed townhome units. Price for the 2 bedroom townhomes is $150,000 and the interesting part is that the developer is offering a 5 yr Net Lease Agreement of $1350/month. Based on a downpayment of 20%, or $30K, these units should cashflow at current interest rates, as it sounds like the developer is responsible for all repair, maintenance and prop. mgt expenses.

Sounds like not a bad deal if you are looking at investing in Saint John, NB...

If you`d like some more information, please send me an email to [email protected] with Saint John Real Estate
in the Subject Line.
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (C2Ventures @ Sep 6 2009, 11:01 AM) I was just speaking to a contact of mine in Eastern Canada who is working on an exclusive investment option with a developer in Saint John, NB.This developer is selling off 40 newly constructed townhome units. Price for the 2 bedroom townhomes is $150,000 and the interesting part is that the developer is offering a 5 yr Net Lease Agreement of $1350/month.
You assume that the developer does not go out of business. A 5 year net lease agreement means NOTHING as the developer, as is often the case with such wild futuristic rent proposals, may chose to go out of business if the economy turns negative.
 

MonteDobson

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QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Sep 6 2009, 11:15 AM) You assume that the developer does not go out of business. A 5 year net lease agreement means NOTHING as the developer, as is often the case with such wild futuristic rent proposals, may chose to go out of business if the economy turns negative.
I suppose...but who would you prefer your lease agreement with, a tenant you just met on the street or a reputable developer who has been in business in St John for over 30 yrs??
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (C2Ventures @ Sep 6 2009, 11:54 AM) I suppose...but who would you prefer your lease agreement with, a tenant you just met on the street or a reputable developer who has been in business in St John for over 30 yrs??
A tenant .. as a developer operates each venture in a new firm .. and the guarantee likely comes from a 3rd firm independent from the developer !

Why give a lease guarantee ? It is just a sales tool !

I am not saying that this developer will go out of business, nor that this lease is outrageous .. but as soon as I hear "lease guarantee" yellow or red flags go up !

This may be a great deal .. don`t get me wrong .. but is this lease realistic ?
 

JeffSmith

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The 2nd refinery has been cancelled and will not proceed due to low demand.
 

myme22

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QUOTE (kay @ Jan 26 2009, 05:39 PM) I have recently met a few investors that purchased in St. John, NB.
They both used the same agent and were very happy with his service.
Let me know if you`d be interested in getting this contact and i can email it to you.

Hello Kay

We thought it was really neat to see your post with regards to St John, as we now know you from last REIN meeting in Vancouver... actually, who doesn`t know you after the last meeting!
My wife and I just took a look at that area and contacted the local economic development office, who sent us a great package in return. We also contacted the realtor mentioned in the last RE mag issue, Sasha Peters, who is currently away, but offered to meet us in Vancouver in the beginning of Feb.
All in all, there seems to be a good proactive response from all the people we`ve contacted there.
I would definitely like to get some first-hand feedback from the investors you`ve met, as to what their experience there has been like, and any useful contacts or advice they might have.
So, if they want, they could contact us at the following e-mail:
[email protected]

Congrats to you on your award!
Serge Merckx
 

richardkp

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Hi Serge,
I invest in Saint John and used the realtor recommended by Kay and have nothing but good things to say about him.

If you need any specific advice from an investor in Saint John then you can send me a PM and ask me anything. St John still has great prospects but it is a market to do your analysis on and then do some more on the ground analysis as well.

I also have a great Property Manager who has a proven track record. I have 2 in fact but only 1 that use currently.
With regards to the cancelled refinery it has been put on hold but word on the street is that Irving are trying to get the NB government involved to "assist" with the cost!

Hope I can help.

Rich
 

myme22

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QUOTE (richardkp @ Jan 31 2010, 05:42 PM) Hi Serge,I invest in Saint John and used the realtor recommended by Kay and have nothing but good things to say about him. If you need any specific advice from an investor in Saint John then you can send me a PM and ask me anything. St John still has great prospects but it is a market to do your analysis on and then do some more on the ground analysis as well.

I also have a great Property Manager who has a proven track record. I have 2 in fact but only 1 that use currently.
With regards to the cancelled refinery it has been put on hold but word on the street is that Irving are trying to get the NB government involved to "assist" with the cost!

Hope I can help.

Rich

Hi Rich

I want to thank you for your reply.
I sent you a personal message, but not sure if you received it, so here it is again...

Thanks for the reply!
It is really neat to get a response from someone in NS! We have some very good friends here who are originally from NS, and there seems to be a very unique, warm atmosphere there. We`d love to visit the area one day!

Yes, my wife and I would definitely like your feedback on, let`s see...
Where to start!
Haha!

We seem to be torn between the different areas:
there are the "priority neighbourhoods" that hold the promise of the city`s efforts for improvement - like the Lower West area for example
, and others that hold a wide diversity of properties within a neighbourhood, like the "Uptown" area
(this seems to be our favourite, but we don`t really know if it encompasses the whole of the peninsula, or only a part of it is called Uptown?)... Then, there are the areas like the Millidgeville and North End areas (North End being another priority neighbourhood), that probably cater more to the university and hospital public, and probably offer a good, steady supply of renters...
Any opinions on any particular areas? And prices within those?

Also, as with many places, old construction and ground/foundation issues seem to be predominant. We heard that electrical issues, as well as the clay ground seems to be a real issue that causes problems, so I guess, knowing good inspectors, but especially tradespeople locally, might be a huge advantage.

I also remember reading about NB being a good place with regards to tenancy laws.
Do you know what the main points of interest of landlording are (compared to BC and Ontario for example, where it`s very difficult to raise rents or evict tenants if necessary, etc...)

Thanks in advance for your feedback and also for your response to my earlier post!

We look forward to hearing from you.

Serge Merckx & Brigitte Myaux
Brise Investments Ltd
office: 604-224-3671 (weekends & evenings)
cell : 604-614-2583 (weekdays)
 
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