Our Tenant Is Leaving Virgins

[REGirl]

"Our Tenant Is Leaving" Virgins



Hello Everyone.



We`re looking to our Reinspace experts for guidance and suggestions.



My husband and I took the plunge into the rental jungle about two years ago by purchasing a new, smaller, single family home in a family neighborhood. As with all newbies, we`ve had lots of questions at each stage of the rental process. We`re now experiencing another first – our first tenant is leaving and we`re interviewing prospective replacement tenants. And of course there are the questions:



1. Normal wear and tear are expected of course, but what types of deductions from the security deposit are common and acceptable, and what are typical holdbacks for those deductions?



2. A common situation is a tenant leaving on the last day of the month, and the new tenant wanting to move in on the first. Somewhere between those two dates you need to spend a few days cleaning. How do you best handle the transition without losing significant rental income during each rental cycle?



3. In our dealing with prospective tenants, we do some due diligence – application form requesting basic references and background information, credit check, and a first impression check. However, it is not difficult for a person to cook the application form. What steps would be sensible to take to confirm the supplied information?



4. Groups can be a pain to manage at the best of times. We have some thoughts on how best to manage the process, but we`re coming from the angle of the inexperienced. What suggestions do you have for dealing with groups of adult tenants?





Thank you for your help!

REGirl

 

[invst4profit]

1) Normal ware and tear is basically just that. Damage is deductible. You have to determine if excessive ware to a carpet is in fact damage. If for example a carpet is full of cigarette burns that is damage. If a wall has paint ware that is different than a hole in the drywall. Repair work is damage where as painting and sprucing up is not.

2) It is difficult to prep a unit between tenants so you really need to get in and view the place well in advance of move out. Assuming the present tenant is staying to the last day you may be in a position to have to lose a months rent. Preparing a unit between tenants can take a considerable amount of time so check it out and determine how much work is required.

3) Assuming you have a detailed application form most information can be cross checked. The credit check will confirm there social insurance number (do every person intending to reside not just the one that is paying the rent), Call there employer and confirm it is a legitimate business. When calling be creative, do not ask to speak to the managers name on the applicants form simply ask to speak to a manager without identifying your self. Make sure they have worked there at least 2 years. Drive buy there present residence and stop in with some excuse saying you were in the neighbourhood. When calling landlords always say you are inquiring about an apartment for rent to confirm you are not just talking to one of there friends posing as a landlord.
Reject any applicant that you find has lied or been evasive in answering any questions on the application form.
If they say they are living at home or give there mother as a landlord pass on them as they may have moved home after a eviction. Do not take a tenant that is recently separated, new to there job or from outside the city or provence.
Always get SI#, drivers licenses, credit check and complete background on every person intending to live in the unit.

4) What do you mean by "groups of adult tenants"

 

[Jessome]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 17 2009, 06:59 AM)
Do not take a tenant that is recently separated, new to there job or from outside the city or provence.




Why not? Wouldn't these people be the most likely to be renting?

 

[invst4profit]

Too high risk. Potential professional tenants.
Recently separated leads to two possible situations, violent X doing damage to apartment or tenant leaving apartment to go back to spouse (very common).

 

[HeatherShadlock]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 17 2009, 08:18 AM)
Too high risk. Potential professional tenants.

Recently separated leads to two possible situations, violent X doing damage to apartment or tenant leaving apartment to go back to spouse (very common).




Totally disagree with this. Two of our current tenants are both in the "recently seperated" catagory, and they are two of the best tenants we have had. The one has been with us for 6 years and now lived in 3 of our properties. I think if you are qualifying your tenants properly, you will make sure that you are not selecting the ones that are waivering on their decision. As well, not every break up has to be a potential volatile situation.....contrary to media and popular belief. I think just by asking the right questions, you can figure this one out rather quickly.

Personally...we like to take seperated woman. They are going through a change in their life and typically want a "constant". They are wanting to get their feet firmly planted and not have to pick up and move for quite some time, especially if there are kids in the situation. As well, it could be that they don't have the men around to do the heavy lifting, haha! Our experience any!



Heather Shadlock

 

[invst4profit]

I am a landlord not a social worker therefore I do not waste my time with high risk applicants.

Having good luck with two tenants in a high risk category does not reduce the risk associated with this type of tenant.
Being a proactive landlord requires that you eliminate certain applicants in favour of the best possible.
This is particularly important in this case where the landlord appeared to have only one unit.
Several months lost rental income fighting to evict is not worth the risk.

 

[HeatherShadlock]

Personally this is one that WE like to rent to...we do not consider them high risk, and although we only have two "currently" in this situation, we have had many in the past. We have never had to be a social worker or deal with any other problems relating to their own "personal" issues.
I think that the point is to determine what category of people that you wish to rent to.

There was mention of "groups of adults", this is a category that WE do not like to rent to because WE feel that they are more transiant, usually young groups, college kids and we feel they could potentially do more damage. We always like to have one person mainly responsible for the property, although everyone that resides in it is checked. Although we are VERY accepting of applications from people that are new to the area and out of province. Provided that they show a great desire and reasoning to be in the area. As Don says at every meeting, most people when they move to a new place tend to rent for 3 years before purchasing a new home, going back home, or continue renting. As well, Don also mentions that he thinks that renting to the young college groups are great, and usually very good tenants. His category is upper lower to lower middle class income people. Find yours and stick with it.

Find something that works for YOU. The last tenant stayed for 2 years. You are very blessed that you made a good selection the first time, being a "virgin" and all. Not everyone is that lucky. We certainly weren`t. And maybe it was luck or maybe you had a good intuition about the person. My recommendation is to find the type of tenant that you "know" how to deal with, that you feel comfortable qualifying and can trust your own good judgement on, and stick with it.

As for the moving in and out...we try to realize that the moving in and out process can be very stressful for both sides, and making arrangements to have them in and out with ease is very important. Sometimes we will forego the cleaning of the property and give them a slight cash back. For instance, if the property would take a good 2 hours to clean and prep @ $20/hr, we would give them $40 back. But on their inspection sheet, it will indicate that the premises are to be in a clean on moving out, as if it were clean when they were moving in. At times we have allowed tenants to move in a couple days early, because the other tenants moved out early. We very easily could have taken this time and prepared the property, but instead we allowed the new tenant the freedom to move in early, but did not collect additional rent. We will say that they are responsible for having carpets cleaned and the property cleaned. And we go to inspect that it has happened. Of course it is a matter of understanding what you new tenant needs more. Some really need the extra time, and are willing to put in the time to do the cleaning themselves if they can get in there that much sooner.
Have a very open discussion with the new tenant to see where their priorities lie.

As for deductions, there is one that I would like to mention because it may not be a very common one. In instances where we have had tenants move out earlier then expected (Say on the 20th, even though rent is paid til the 31st), check with the utilities to see when they were cancelled. Most companies will not actually shut off the power, gas and water, they will just wait for the new occupant to phone in and change over the account. If the new tenant moves in on the 1st, then someone has to pay for the time between the 20th and the 31st. In our rental agreement, it states that the tenant is responsible for keeping these accounts open until the final day of their contract. So we will contact the companies to verify that there is no time lapse between old tenant and new tenant. If there is, then the amount is held from their deposit in order to cover these expenses. But you will need to verify what your tenancy agreement states, this is a good clause to have in there. Of course now we try to be open with our tenants and if we know that they are really intending on being out ont the 20th, we would try to make it available to the new tenant on the 21st and do something like above, but they would need to switch utilities as of the date they moved in.

Remember whether the tenant is moving out or moving in these are your clients, they are the ones that put the money in your bank, treat them right and with respect and you will get the same in return. For the most part!

 

[invst4profit]

Your selection process also needs to be geared to the province your rentals are in.
REGirl where are you.

 

[housingrental]

I`d like to post my support for invst4profit`s post re:

I am a landlord not a social worker therefore I do not waste my time with high risk applicants.

Having good luck with two tenants in a high risk category does not reduce the risk associated with this type of tenant.
Being a proactive landlord requires that you eliminate certain applicants in favour of the best possible.
This is particularly important in this case where the landlord appeared to have only one unit.
Several months lost rental income fighting to evict is not worth the risk.

 

[housingrental]

Also after reading Heather Shadlock`s post I`d like to strongly disagree with parts of it. I`ve copied selected quotes from her post and my thoughts.


" Find something that works for YOU. The last tenant stayed for 2 years. You are very blessed that you made a good selection the first time, being a "virgin" and all. Not everyone is that lucky. We certainly weren`t. And maybe it was luck or maybe you had a good intuition about the person. My recommendation is to find the type of tenant that you "know" how to deal with, that you feel comfortable qualifying and can trust your own good judgement on, and stick with it." Don`t rely on intuition. don`t rely on your own judgment, thoroughly screen all applicants using same metrics.


"As for the moving in and out...we try to realize that the moving in and out process can be very stressful for both sides, and making arrangements to have them in and out with ease is very important. Sometimes we will forego the cleaning of the property and give them a slight cash back. For instance, if the property would take a good 2 hours to clean and prep @ $20/hr, we would give them $40 back. But on their inspection sheet, it will indicate that the premises are to be in a clean on moving out, as if it were clean when they were moving in. " Don`t do this. Get unit professional cleaned prior to occupancy. Get invoice and ideally pay by cheque so you can prove it if needing to go to LTB


"At times we have allowed tenants to move in a couple days early, because the other tenants moved out early. We very easily could have taken this time and prepared the property, but instead we allowed the new tenant the freedom to move in early, but did not collect additional rent. We will say that they are responsible for having carpets cleaned and the property cleaned. And we go to inspect that it has happened. Of course it is a matter of understanding what you new tenant needs more. Some really need the extra time, and are willing to put in the time to do the cleaning themselves if they can get in there that much sooner.
Have a very open discussion with the new tenant to see where their priorities lie." Providing early occupancy and no cost is fine. The rest of this section of advice from Heather should be ignored and you should do the exact opposite. Don`t ever rely on or trust your tenant to keep an agreement. You will get smoked eventually - sooner rather than later.


"Remember whether the tenant is moving out or moving in these are your clients, they are the ones that put the money in your bank, treat them right and with respect and you will get the same in return. For the most part! " Yes but you really need to take the perspective that your best tenant will screw you over given the chance - and you will never ever be able to know in advance where it`s coming from - Also do everything right and document - re cleaning above or especially if any repairs are needed and they say it`s okay they can take care of it so they can move in early...

 

[billf]

Just an observation...

You can tell the difference between property owners in Ontario(No landlord rights) and Alberta(Balanced Landlord/Tenant laws)....Hmmmm

 

[ChrisMewhort]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Mar 17 2009, 01:42 PM) ...you really need to take the perspective that your best tenant will screw you over given the chance - and you will never ever be able to know in advance where it`s coming from...

I think this was poorly worded as originally I understood you to be saying that it`s always your best tenants who end up screwing you over... when after having thought about it longer I realized you were most likely just trying to say:

QUOTE "Try to anticipate any and all possible scenarios and plan for the worst to protect yourself at all times."

I think the above is quite sound advice, but I don`t recommend blanketing your best tenant as "the one who will screw you over, given the chance" and I`d be willing to bet that the very large majority of "best tenants" end on good terms and with satisfaction from both parties. More often than not I think you`ll do little but leave a sour taste in your best tenants mouth by anticipating when they`re going to "exercise their plan to screw you over."





[sub]
... but plan for it just in case[/sub]

 

[invst4profit]

There is definitely a vast difference between being a landlord in Ontario and any other province however the lessons learned in Ontario can go a long way to protect landlords in all provinces.

The horror stories about bad tenants always lead back to inexperienced landlords not doing proper screening or simply dropping there guard for a moment and trusting a tenant or applicant at there word.

Many landlords in Ontario may seem harsh but it has developed over time and is simply Darwin`s Theory of Evolution. Only the strong will survive.

With careful screening processes in place others may avoid developing our attitudes.

The rules in Ontario are different but people are the same everywhere. Being extra diligent and screening out some higher risk tenants does not have a negative down side for landlords that care about there investment and there own sanity.

 

[DOZAH]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 18 2009, 06:40 AM) There is definitely a vast difference between being a landlord in Ontario and any other province however the lessons learned in Ontario can go a long way to protect landlords in all provinces.

The horror stories about bad tenants always lead back to inexperienced landlords not doing proper screening or simply dropping there guard for a moment and trusting a tenant or applicant at there word.

Many landlords in Ontario may seem harsh but it has developed over time and is simply Darwin`s Theory of Evolution. Only the strong will survive.

With careful screening processes in place others may avoid developing our attitudes.

The rules in Ontario are different but people are the same everywhere. Being extra diligent and screening out some higher risk tenants does not have a negative down side for landlords that care about there investment and there own sanity.



AMEN!

Ontario has made me the evil monster landlord I am today.
bwahahahaha (evil laugh)

 

[housingrental]

I approve of your rewording of my post
My apologies if the original wording lacked clarity
Note you can still be customer service focused while suffering from extreme paranoia


QUOTE (ChrisMewhort @ Mar 18 2009, 03:19 AM)

I think this was poorly worded as originally I understood you to be saying that it`s always your best tenants who end up screwing you over... when after having thought about it longer I realized you were most likely just trying to say:

I think the above is quite sound advice, but I don`t recommend blanketing your best tenant as "the one who will screw you over, given the chance" and I`d be willing to bet that the very large majority of "best tenants" end on good terms and with satisfaction from both parties. More often than not I think you`ll do little but leave a sour taste in your best tenants mouth by anticipating when they`re going to "exercise their plan to screw you over."





[sub]
... but plan for it just in case[/sub]

 

[ShannonMurree]

Wouldn`t it be a "case by case" scenario? To lump all people in the "separating" category and eliminate automatically could also have one miss out on a great tenant. If all other checks and conducting your due diligence on a potential applicant work out, why discriminate and automatically refuse because you feel he/she would be high risk? There are a lot of separations/divorces in this day and age.

Just wondering. I know people, myself included whom have not had an issue of them being high risk and gave them the equal opportunity to apply. Now, on another note before anyone bites my head off, I did refuse one because I did feel she was high risk. I conducted my interview questions accordingly and felt that based on her answers I didn`t feel she would be the right candidate and perhaps reconciliation possible and leave me stuck with vacancy.

Anyway, I get what you`re saying but don`t think it would necessarily apply to everyone automatically. Just my opinion.

 

[ChrisMewhort]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Mar 18 2009, 09:07 PM) I approve of your rewording of my post
My apologies if the original wording lacked clarity
Note you can still be customer service focused while suffering from extreme paranoia

It`s the constant battle between emotion and numbers, truthfully. I was just playing Devil`s Advocate there -- I think it`s excellent that you have that opinion as a Property Manager; and if I think it`s great for a Property Manager to do business like that, then... why wouldn`t I want to do business like that as well

 

[housingrental]

Thank you for the above post and kind thoughts

 

[hamburg113]

Hi,





Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.





Tks again and pls keep posting.



If you want to get more materials that related to this topic, you can visit:
Real estate agent interview questions






Best regards.

 

[invst4profit]

[quote user=Shannon Murree]Wouldn't it be a "case by case" scenario? To lump all people in the "separating" category and eliminate automatically could also have one miss out on a great tenant. If all other checks and conducting your due diligence on a potential applicant work out, why discriminate and automatically refuse because you feel he/she would be high risk? There are a lot of separations/divorces in this day and age.



Anyway, I get what you're saying but don't think it would necessarily apply to everyone automatically. Just my opinion.




By definition we are speaking of high risk as a category not as a individual situation. Recently separated or divorced is a high risk category just as having a low credit score places individuals in a high risk category. Because someone did not experience a negative outcome from renting to someone considered to be in a high risk category does not change the reality that a given group is high risk.

One could look at a individual's personal situation leading to a poor credit score and decide to rent but that is taking a greater risk than selecting someone that does not have a poor credit score.



From my business perspective if a individual falls into a high risk category the label "high risk" does automatically apply. Rather than try to make a high risk applicant work I will chose to pass and allow another landlord to take the added risk.