Question to a N4 in Ontario

[NorthernAlex]

Hi.

I need some help and would like to hear your opinion.

Infos out of the nutshell:

- Just purchased a 5plex. Closing 3rd February.
- Old landlord does not have written rental agreement with the tenant
- Wrote introduction letter to tenant (5th) that I will pick up rent on 15th at 7 p.m. and that I would like to enter apartment.
- Tenant gave wrong notice to old landlord. Wrong means: Rent due 15th, but gave notice on 1st, that he will leave by the end of the month. I agreed, want him to leave ASAP.
- Went there to pick up rent on 15th. Tenant can`t pay. Will try to have the money ready on the 17th. Says, that he didn` t receive my intro letter and my notice that I want to come in. Told him will be back on 17th and want in the apartment.
- Went back with witness (former co worker) on the 16th with a N4. Noone opened, left N4 Original in mailbox. Witness saw me out of the car putting N4 into mailbox.
- Went back on 17th. No one opens. As I told him that I want to go, I went in. No one there but I see my intro letter incl. business cards in the bed room.
- Went back this morning. He opens and I ask for rent. No rent, maybe Tuesday. I asked if he started packing because in 10 days he wants to move to his new apartment. He replied that I didn`t give him a N4. I told him that I did. He didn`t get it and because I didn`t give it in person it is not valid. I replied, that this is <beep>. N4 can be send by mail or delivered in person with witness, which I had.

I doubt now that he will leave by the end of month.

My questions:

1. Should I give him a copy of my N4 copy in PERSON now?
2. How long does the Landlord/Tenant Board need for a Hearing/Order?
3. What do you advise? Something else to do?

Thank you.

 

[Yev]

Hi Alex,

As this is Ontario... Proceed according to the F#$%ed up Ontario LTB rules! You have to have a waiting period past the N4 before you can apply to the board to get an L1 and eventually a hearing, hire a Sheriff, Locksmith etc.

Or, you can offer him 200(or more) in cash after he moves out and his place is clean - but he must leave by the 28th of this month - trust me, this will be the cheapest route to get him out of there...

Hope this helps,

Yevgeni

 

[invst4profit]

If you do decide to buy him off do not give him any money until he is walking out the door for the last time.

Do not bother giving him another N4 he has already shown his colors and can not be trusted. Study the procedure, cross every t and dot every i exactly as the board requires or you will lose the case and have to start over again.

If you believe this guy is going to be trouble find a lawyer (or legal aid) that specializes in representing landlords. You will not regret the expense.

If you can find out who his new landlord is inform this guy you will be notifying his new landlord (all future landlords that ask) he was evicted if he does not leave as agreed.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Hi Yev.

Yes, this is something what is starting to grow on me, but refused it in the first place ethically. I think, I will offer this tonight when I hand over the N4 again IN PERSON. Thank you for your advise.

Greg, thank you too.

This is what I call "learning by doing" the hard way. The first property, the first month, the first rent collect and already BOOOOM! ...btw, the previous owner told me today (i met him in the bank) that he "never had any issues" so far. Yeah, right!

 

[invst4profit]

Where are you?

 

[NorthernAlex]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Feb 19 2009, 05:38 PM) Where are you?
Please write me short email to NorthernAlex at gmx.org. PM do not work anymore.

 

[invst4profit]

Just wanted to know if you were in the St Lawrence area so I could give you the name of a good landlord rep.

NB ON ????

 

[fmonaco]

Hi. Good luck Northern Alex.
I have been advised on numerous occassions that you offer the person $500 if you need to, to get them the heck out of your place since this is by far the cheapest and least aggravating option. But in advance of handing over the cash, ensure that the place has been vacated, left in an orderly state, witness that their truck is packed with their stuff and then and only then hand over the cash. As soon as their gone, have a new lock in your hand and get the lock changed.

 

[NorthernAlex]

NB is North Bay.

... but I still would like to have your email address!

 

[billf]

Been there Alex,

Don`t bother with another N4, he will say you were harassing him in LTB. Unless he gave you notice in writng that he was leaving at month`s end, he likely won`t. You can drop off the n4 and you don`t need a witness or to hand it in person. If you issue further N4`s you are only giving the guy more time in your place. After the 14 days, get the L1 filed and take them to court. A hearing usually takes 2-3 weeks to be heard, then they will give the tenant another 2-3 weeks to pay before you can hire a sherriff to evict. All court costs are added to the tenant bill.

If the guy skips out and does not pay the rent, send the info to a collections agency. Give bad references and go to small claims if you think you this person has a real job or assets. I don`t think you should reward non-payment with a bribe, but if you do, get it in writing and write a bad cheque(hahahaha).

Good Luck.

Bill F

 

[housingrental]

One thing no one has mentioned, if I`m reading this correctly, you shouldn`t have entered on the 17th but on the 15th. You can`t tell him in person unless he agrees, you need to provide written notice for a maintenance inspection.... and he can use this against you when you take him to LTB

 

[NorthernAlex]

Adam, good point. I told him on the 15th that I want to come in on the 17th. He agreed to that, that he will be there. I went in because I thought I have the verbal permit and that this would be enough. Thank you for the info. I just checked it. I did not know that a verbal allowance is not enough.

Update to the situation:
I mentioned him that I will give him $350 if he leaves on the 28th with all his stuff and the apartment is empty. He said he will be gone and he negotiated a cheap monthly rent with a local motel. We will see next week.

Tuesday I will be back, as he mentioned that he will have some/the cash.

Thank you all so far for your feedback and very appreciated infos.

 

[CarlaJohnson]

Listen to Yevgeni. He knows this business well.

We went through virtually the same thing. Our first property was a four-plex and within a week we had big troubles that only got worse. It`s an uber-sharp learning curve if it`s your first property. There are many renters who know the system better than new landlords.

Offer cash and don`t be stingy. We issued an N4 in September then 14 days later got a hearing date of early November. We were green and didn`t have our "ducks" in a row, so the board gave them until the end of December to leave. That was 4 months of no rent, property damage and emotional drain.

Remember that the board`s job is to try and find a way to help tenants and landlords work things out. They are run by civilians who each have their own angle. An eviction is not guaranteed.

Good luck!

 

[NorthernAlex]

Carla, thank you.

I received tonight a phone call from the tenant asking if he could have the money upfront to pay the hotel, where he wants move.

I refused and said one more time: "Empty apartment, on time 28th." He just hung up.

 

[CarlaJohnson]

Your "carrot" may be working. I hope so.

Good job holding your line. Just keep reminding him of the 28th and your cash offer. Hopefully he takes it.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Hello all.

Just returned from my first rental property and solved above mentioned issue.

The tenant moved out, but left 10 large bags of garbage in front of the house. I just gave him half of the money and told him he will get the rest when he did the dump run on Monday as "promised". And now guess: He came back and took the bags too and will leave them with his dads garage til Monday.

I changed the locks and look forward to upgrade it with new paint and new toilette and get "high quality tenants" the next time. This time I can screen them and don`t "buy" them with the property.

Thank you very much all for your help!!!

What do you think: Should I take him to small claim court to go after him or should I just let go. I doubt that he will be able to pay, but it is more the ethical thing of "you should not do that otherwise you will have to go to court". I actually "rewarded" him now that he moved out without paying rent. He is 21 years old.

I know, I am old fashioned...

 

[CarlaJohnson]

Congratulations! You efficiently evicted a tenant in Ontario. You may be old-fashioned, but you were also savy. That went very, very well.

You feel like you rewarded him for bad behaviour, but what you really did was eliminate a problem quickly and smoothly. Welcome to the world of tenants. New investors have to get used to this side of the business. Someday when you go through a long, painful eviction process, you will wish it was this smooth. He is gone and out of your "hair." Breathe a sigh of relief, celebrate your accomplishment and get ready to move ahead.

Small claims court is no longer interested in claims under $10K. It will cost you a few hundred just to get there and for what? We have to learn to pick our battles. If you stay in this business, there will be many other "bullets" you just have to bite. Shake the dust of frustration off your feet and think about building YOUR future, not punishing HIS past.

I hope that helps.