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Renovations and Property Managment

GrahamWhite

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THIS POST INCLUDES LINKS TO EXCITING PICTURES AT THE BOTTOM!!!Unless you have multiple units in the same area I HIGHLY recommend you DO NOT use a property management company!I have 32 units amoung Fort MacMurray, Edmonton, Red Deer, Innisfail and Calgary and have had nothing but headaches with every single property management company I have ever tried.They will simply never look after your properties the way you want unless you own an appartment building that makes it worth their time to look after multiple units all in one place.

I have spent more money going back and repairing the things they have had their contractors look after than it would have cost me to do it myself. I was charged $400 to change a set of taps in Fort MacMurray - it would have cost me less to fly up, rent a car and do it myself!

I am the furthest thing from a Handyman and I find that I will do a better job than most people who claim that it is their trade. You need to find someone you can trust who does a quality job. This is tough, because handman work is a pain compared to building new and most of the really good tradespeople stay away from repairs because they never know whose mess they`re going to run into.

Rule of thumb - it takes three times as long and will cost you three times as much to repair something as it would to install it new. This is because you ALWAYS run into unexpected things that are a real pain to figure out.

If you`re in this business, I believe you need to manage and reno your own properties or have people you can rely on to do it for you because property management companies will cost you a FORTUNE! If you`re not ready to run this part of the business, then give your money to someone else and be the money partner and let them deal with the headache.

After having spent over $100,000 renovating outdated units and repairing units damaged by tenants I have a very good system for knowing what to repair, what to replace and how to get in tenants that look after the place like it is their own.



I`ve started keeping a photo diary of some of the more involved reno-upgrade projects. Here are the links to them below:

Are Renos Worth the Investment? Here are Before`s-&-After`s with Costs: http://tinyurl.com/69bz2w


Linoleum Flooring: http://tinyurl.com/6rxzj8


Laminate Flooring: http://tinyurl.com/5lvhkg


Hardwood Flooring: http://tinyurl.com/5rya5u


Kitchen renos: http://tinyurl.com/6rxzj8

Replacing cabinets: http://tinyurl.com/6antrf



I`ll have to remember to bring my camera for these ones next time:


Replacing a tub surround:

Replacing tub and shower hardware:

Replacing a toilet:

Stippling a ceiling:

Painting an old Stipple Ceiling:

Rehabing damage from Cigarette Smoke:

Replacing rotten wooden stairs and decks:

Installing new windows:

Installing Exterior Doors:

Fixing holes in walls, big and small:

Closet Doors/New Lights/Painting Walls/Painting Doors:
 

invst4profit

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I agree 100%.
I personally do not believe in property management companies which is one of the reasons I only buy locally. Unless you are too large to do it yourself you are throwing money away. I also believe every landlord starting out should get there hands dirty learning all they can so that when they are in a position to have to hire managers or contractors they know what they are paying for. When I get too big to manage myself I`LL be big enough to quit my day job and continue to manage myself.
That`s just me, but my personal Belize does not involve being rich or sitting on my duff sipping margaritas.
 

Sherilynn

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Graham, you sound exactly like my husband! (Thankfully we have found a good general contractor, but my handy husband still does minor plumbing and electrical repairs.)

As for a property manager, I wholeheartedly agree that no company will care as much as you do about your properties. Because we are still improving our properties, we need to stay hands-on. Also, we like to get above-average rent and I feel that I can sell the property pretty well.

That being said, I eagerly await the day that I can pass management off to a trusted professional. I know that my time would be better spent seeking joint venture partners and cashflow opportunities. If I find a couple of properties to put thousands of dollars in my pockets, I will care a little less that a property manager eats half of that cash.

Regards

Sherilynn
 

ChrisDavies

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I guess a property management guy should speak up. I absolutely think that you should self manage your first few companies. Yes, you`ll pay more attention to your own properties, and you`ll learn a lot about it.

However, after 5-10 properties, you`ll start to find your time becomes more valuable, unless you`re a naturally talented manager. When it comes to having a real estate investment model that scalable, you`re going to need a manager, and a good one.

The renovation analysis looks awesome though!
 

TommyK

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I am in the process of getting a couple investment properties. I agree that me, as a starter, needs to manage my own properties. I want to know the ins and outs of how to be an effective landlord!
 

Nir

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Thanks Graham, EXCELLENT POSTING!

You raised, in my opinion, one of the most interesting and relevant questions for many real estate investors including myself.

Such a difficult dilemma for me (however, like Greg my situation is a little unique - i do not need more than 5-10 properties :) ), that I still have not decided whether to continue purchasing long distance (like Sudbury) or not, hire a property manager or not (just a "superintendent"/maintenance guy instead?) in the areas I invest(?)

Graham, as you highly recommend NOT to use a property management company, I wonder what you think about Greg`s interesting statement about buying locally ONLY "I personally do not believe in property management companies which is one of the reasons I only buy locally"(?)

Regards,
Neil
 

housingrental

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I think buying locally is the best way to go - it`s hard to become an expert in an area that you`re 1000km away from - same re overseeing your management company if far away.
Most managment companies provide poor service. Generally you need a large portfolio to get quality management at an affordable rate.
 

DianeLeahy

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Hi Graham,

As Don would day things happen for a reason. I am quickly trying to get in some reading time on the forum just to see what is up and I found your post. My partime handyman... (full time) husband/ fulltime paramedic is in FortMcmurray this week trying to get some small jobs done on our first investment property. Finding a PM up north has been a challenge...I was in YMM last week myself to cut the grass and meet with an new PM. I tried to keep an open mind about the feedback that this young man was blurting out...you should do this , you should do that.... and I can refer you to someone to do the work...$10,000.00 later for paint and furnishing a one bedroom suite. This home is in great condition in Thickwood , 5 bedrooms, 3 full bathrooms , double garage and a large backyard...a great family home. I may be stuck in my paradyme however this young man was piecing up this house for every rooms or square feet that he could add rent plus wanting US to pay for the utilities.I had to take 2 days to figure out what I wanted to do. How I was going to approach his intentions that did not match ours. I agree, it needs to be marketed differently however the rest was not fitting our goal. I finally sent him an email explaining who we are and why we invest in Fort Mcmurray. That I am a REIN member, if he had heard of it. The basement suite is not legal as MOST are not in YMM however I need the #`s to work and his way was not working for us. The email came back with a very positive understanding. Was it the REIN name ? the fact that I told him the plan and why and how this will work for all of us? I have someone that wants to get into the game as he said.He has REIN members as clients. He knows the books but has not read them YET! He is trying to build equity from his home out EAST. I just wanted to say that some of us would like to run the entire show however it takes so much time, with the book keeping, advertising , upkeep ect....you name it ,I have no time to keep buying....I need a team! I can manage the PM and probably pass on some handyman work to my husband if it`s practical . By the way we live in Toronto, I work for an airline and we have 2 small boys, 7 and 10. I guess my response to your post is to justify to myself that I do need a team and that I am too interested in learning different things about real estate then to let others have all the "fun". I can stop running for the deals in 10 years....as I guide someone along on their ride. Let me know when you plan a trip in Fort Mcmurray, I could fly up and bring you a coffee or tea ? we can chat? Ok, you can put me to work and we can chat!

a secret admire and Real Estate Investor!
 

GrahamWhite

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First thing I should say here is that I am not anti-management. Good property management companies do what they do well.

They come across as more professional than an owner/manager which is better if you`re looking to do credit checks and criminal background checks. People will tend to give this information to a big company more redily than to Joe Owner.

The downside is, people are more willing to screw-over a company than an individual they have a good personal relationship with. I have had tenants trash places when given a notice by a Management Company, never when I`ve done it myself.

The relationship is more professional, less personal. This has advantages and disadvantages for each. Here`s what a breakdown of what a good property management company (PMC) will do vs. what a good owner/manager will do:


PMC - List your property for rent and show the suite for you. They will use the same method of advertising that they have always used and you will have no priority over the 20 - 200 other suites that they are advertising for rent that same month.

YOU - Will research the best places in your market to advertise, discuss with other REIN members the ads that they have used with the best types of copy, take brilliantly staged photos that shows your property in it`s best light (possible even videos - see http://www.youtube.com/user/realestateab for what I did for one property).

If you look at these videos, particularly the one of the front yard you will notice that the hedges are trimmed and all of the neighbours have cut lawns. I trimmed that hedge and mowed three neighbours lawns (took me about an hour) because I want people coming to look at my unit to feel they are coming to a good community. Obviously a PMC will not go to this level of detail.


LISTING PROPERTIES FOR RENT

PMC - Will run a credit check on the tenant and contact their references.

YOU - Will meet them in person, get a good feel for they type of person they are, ask all kinds of questions to find out if they are the perfect tenant for your unit and phone all their references. If you`re VERY WISE, you will sign the lease at their current residence (let them think you`re going to sign at your place and then give them 30 minutes notice that you`re coming to THEIR place) so you can see how they look after their place.


LEASING YOUR PROPERTY AND COLLECTING RENT

PMC - Will do the move-in inspection, collect the Security Deposit and Rent each month. They will hold the SD until the end of the tenancy and hold the rent a little more than one month. This means you need to have two months worth of mortgage, taxes, utilities etc. available from your own pocket. (Multiply all your rents x 2 and that`s how much extra cash you`re going to need to start with a PMC, OR how much you can put back in your pocket if you take over from your PMC).

You will often not know if rent has not been paid by a tenant or that there is a problem until two months after the issue arises.

YOU - Will work on getting set up to do automatic withdrawals and accept Credit Card payments when other forms of payment are declined. You will get the money and be able to apply it against expenses on the first of the month. (You`re still going to need one months worth of float because even the best of tenants will occasionally be a day or two late or something will happen at the bank). The good news is, you have 1 months rent equivalent in the form of their SD and that should be able to float you for those few days.


MAINTENANCE:

PMC - Will take the call from the tenant, call their contractor and have the problem fixed without taking up any of your time or causing you stress when it happens. They may add 10% on top of the contractors bill for having to take the time to make the phone call and follow up. If appliances break down, they will replace them with new ones.

YOU - Will be by your properties on a regular basis and know what`s happening. You will notice small problems before they become big ones and either fix them yourself or contract them to professionals you know well or have been recommended by REIN members (and your own due diligence). If appliances break down, you will find cheap, good condition used units at a fraction of new cost with many years of life left.

Your repair/reno costs will be as little as 10% of what the cost would be if a PMC was looking after it because there`s NO WAY you`re going to let someone pad a bill and you know yourself how long it takes to replace a tap set or fix a leaky toilet. You`ve seen the problem and no one can snow you about what was actually required.

***ALSO You will not freak out when you show up and have to rip out and redo the work that was done because the PMC company did not know that the work had been sub-contracted to someone who was not experienced or qualified.


SHOWING OCCUPIED UNITS AND GIVING EVICTIONS

PMC - Will follow the local Landlord Tenant rules when showing a suite that has a tenant or going through an eviction process. If there are damages that exceed the SD, they will put together a full list along with costs and give it to the tenant (haven`t met one that pursues collecting it though).

YOU - Will have a great personal relationship with your tenants. They will be clean and neat because you`ve established that`s how they live by showing up unannounced at their place when signing the lease. Their suite will always be "show-ready" and because you have been such a great landlord, you will be able to give them as little as 1 hour notice to show the suite you know, the amount of time someone needs to call ahead to let you know they`re coming for sure). Your tenant may even show the suite for you!

In the event of an eviction, you will know there is a problem and act on it weeks, even months before a PMC will because you`re actually around your properties on a regular basis. You may even do what some owner/managers do on the day of the eviction and show up with four guys and a moving truck if they haven`t moved out themselves, go in, pack up and ask them where they would like their property moved to, offer to store it for 30 days if they have no place to move it to and then change all the locks and solidly lock all the windows when you leave.

You will bill them for all of this at the market rate and take it out of their SD if there is anything left over in it after missing rent and other damages are subtracted. You will deal with going to court if THEY decide to pursue you for this course of action rather than YOU going to court if they`re still sitting their the day their eviction notice takes effect and then waiting for a court date and the two weeks the judge is going to give them to stay in your place, not pay you rent and possibly damage it further.

***If you have treated a tenant fairly, given them all appropriate notice, dealt with them firmly, but fairly when you move their things out, and handled everything carefully and professionally - what do you think a judge will say if they did file a claim?

Have you ever taken a tenant to court? Have you noticed what a huge pain it is and how everything needs to be done perfectly by the person filing the complaint? Do you really think an irresponsible tenant is going to go through all of this to get ??? what the heck would they even be able to ask for?

IMPORTANT - I don`t actually recommend you do anything other than follow the landlord tenant act to the letter. I`m simply reporting some hypothetical actions that could be taken if you`re prepared to deal with the legal issues. As always, you need to obtain your own counsel about any actions you take that have legal consequences.


LONG-TERM MANAGEMENT

PMC - Will bill you the same amount every month as long as there are renters. You will usually not be billed extra for places that are vacant.

YOU - Will work your butt off for one or two months to get in premium tenants who will be their for two to five years and then mostly spend a few minutes every other month chatting with your wonderful tenants and appreciate that their rent is automatically deposited into your account the first of every month.

**NOTE - A place that isn`t rented costs you 100% of that months rent. A place that isn`t rented only costs the owner of the PMC company at the MOST just 5% of the rent (they don`t pocket that 8 - 12%, they have costs). $1000 in unpaid rent on your unit likely only costs the PMC owner $25 out of their income. Who do you think has more motivation to get the place rented?

ALSO - Who pays the bill for maintenance issues that arise if a bad tenant is put into your unit and they trash the place? YOU PAY 100%! Your PMC will never offer to cover even 10% of the damages that are caused. They have 8-12% of the upside with 0% of the downside. Who is more motivated to put great tenants in?



WHEN TO USE A GREAT PMC:

-If you have a high quality unit in a strong market that is long-distance from where you live.

-If you have a large number of quality units all in one place and can command special attention from your PMC based on large volume.

-If you have relatively high cash-flow and find that your time is worth more than the 20% it will cost you to have someone else manage your properties (I know PMC`s don`t CHARGE you 20%, but as per above, it costs you more in the end to have someone else do it in other ways - probably closer to 25%)

-If you find that you`re not cut out to be an owner/manager and the stress just isn`t worth it. (In this case, I would advise you to sell and become a JV partner with someone who is instead).


WHEN TO HIRE YOUR OWN PROPERTY MANAGER RATHER THAN A USING A PMC COMPANY:

***THIS is my recommendation of what to aim for. I believe it`s what most of the REIN members with 50+ units do for most of their portfolio.

When you`ve done it yourself for 3 - 5 years and know what`s involved and have enough properties to make it worth what you`ll need to pay them to do the job 85% as well as you would (85% because NO ONE will ever pay attention the way you do!)
 
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