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Rent to own the good and bad....

JordanRich

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I have been reading about the rent to own investing technique and i am looking for some more insight about it.

It seems to be a no loose situation, you get great cash flow, post dated cheques, a pre-determined exit strategy, a saftey deposit and you own the property if anything goes wrong.

Why isn`t everyone doing this? Am i missing something?
 

tmacdonald

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I agree, can`t wait to see the replies on this thread...I`ve been considering doing the same thing starting with my current residence.
Troy
 

markl

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I think RTO are great as well obviously it is all I am doing right now. To me this is a great and easy way of wealth accumulation. 2 draw backs to RTO are it is active income taxed at the highest marginal tax rate and the turn over. Where as a big multi unit you buy and hold forever RTO you have to keep replenishing your stock.

Regards,
 

billf

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Hi,

Quick question about this interesting proposition. Now that it is generally accepted that prices are going to be flat/down for the next while are the clients still willing to pay for anticpated price growth/appreciation.

Thanks,

Bill F
 

GregGillespie

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QUOTE (billf @ Jan 6 2009, 03:32 PM) Hi,

Quick question about this interesting proposition. Now that it is generally accepted that prices are going to be flat/down for the next while are the clients still willing to pay for anticpated price growth/appreciation.

Thanks,

Bill F

Excellent point...Mark, have you made any adjustments to calculating your future selling price?

Thanks,

Greg
 

AndyLuchies

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QUOTE (JordanRich @ Jan 6 2009, 04:12 PM) I have been reading about the rent to own investing technique and i am looking for some more insight about it.

It seems to be a no loose situation, you get great cash flow, post dated cheques, a pre-determined exit strategy, a saftey deposit and you own the property if anything goes wrong.

Why isn`t everyone doing this? Am i missing something?

2 things I can think of:
1. You are only gaining RE if your tenant doesn`t exercise the option. Conceivably, you could do everything right and never keep your properties.

2. Also, I`m fairly sure (in Ontario anyways) that it can be hard to kick out a tenant legally who`s claiming to have a stake in the house (because they`re paying into it) regardless of what your contract says. But there could be ways around this, for example if in the contract they`re not paying down the house, they are just paying "additional option consideration." Courts can sometimes play against the "big, bad landowner."

(my two cents)
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (JordanRich @ Jan 6 2009, 02:12 PM) Why isn`t everyone doing this? Am i missing something?

yes, a person who trashes your house, doesn`t pay the lease after a month or 2, and is hard to evict due to a bad contract !

Hence: ensure you have a LARGE down payment to allow for 3-4 month vacancy while you renovate and find new tenant, plus potential damages, AND TWO legal agreements: one for the lease-to-own portion and one for the LEASE portion alone.

The lease would be used to enforce eviction if he doesn`t pay rent.

The key issue is: someone who has the down payment but not the credit (otherwise they would buy and not do a lease-to-own). This is usually an immigrant or a person who had credit problems in the past ! Hence: screening is key .. a 2nd or 3rd language helps (or shall I say: is the recommended strategy) so you can specialize in a certain immigrant group to help them get into Canada and into a house until they have the credit to get their own mortgage !
 

NorthernAlex

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QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Jan 21 2009, 11:01 PM) ......The key issue is: someone who has the down payment but not the credit (otherwise they would buy and not do a lease-to-own). This is usually an immigrant or a person who had credit problems in the past ! Hence: screening is key .. a 2nd or 3rd language helps (or shall I say: is the recommended strategy) so you can specialize in a certain immigrant group to help them get into Canada and into a house until they have the credit to get their own mortgage !

Very interesting post. We arrived 8 months ago in Canada and the "Credit History" issue is really make you cry some times. "We dont know you"....."But I had in Germany my Visa the last 15 years, too with xxxx limit." .... "Yeah, but that was Visa Germany."......


Anyhow, I think RTO would work very well in Manitoba and Alberta.

Best regards,

Alex.
 

markl

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Hi Greg et al,

We do have provisions to deal with negative growth or smaller than calculated growth. The goal here is to create a win/win for everyone and if that means being flexible at the end then that is what is needed.

As for tenant issues. We have had a couple of cases of evictions and have never had to return their initial deposit.

As I stated before this is not buy and hold Real estate if your looking for that Multi-Plexes are the way to go in MHO this is inventory and hence why CRA taxes this as active income. This is a tool to use for wealth generation that delivers extremely good cash flow and for the most part extremely loyal and dedicated tenants.

Regards,
 

rforgiel

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Can Rent To Own be used as a strategy for accumulating properties such as finding someone wanting to buy, back who can not get approved for a mortgage and investing in a property for them or should Rent To Own only be considered a selling strategy for a property you have owned for a number of years.
 

markl

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Yes and yes. They can be used as an exit strategy for existing properties. As well RTO can be used to purchase new properties.
 

AndyLuchies

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Anyone here done a sandwich lease option?

For those that don`t know, a sandwich lease is me "renting to own" from a buyer for (for example) a $5000 deposit, $1500 / month, option to buy in/before 5 years at 250,000

then leasing it out to another buyer for a $6000 deposit from them, $1700/ month, option to buy in/before 5 years at 280,000.

(Kind of a win-win for me with little risk, either way I make money as the middle man, especially if i find my tenant before I remove conditions on my lease contract with the seller).

Perhaps there is something legal here that I am missing?
 

seanverret

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Mark,

Could you explain more about the taxes please.

Thanks
Sean

QUOTE (markl @ Jan 6 2009, 02:46 PM) I think RTO are great as well obviously it is all I am doing right now. To me this is a great and easy way of wealth accumulation. 2 draw backs to RTO are it is active income taxed at the highest marginal tax rate and the turn over. Where as a big multi unit you buy and hold forever RTO you have to keep replenishing your stock.

Regards,
 

markl

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Hi Sean,

Now remember I am not an accountant so you should speak with and verify or confirm this with an accountant. Rent To Owns are deemed by the CRA to be active income in the same way flipping a house would be because your original intention is to sell the property. They count it as inventory. George Dube has done a presentation on this and would be a good resource to ask this to.

So the long and the short of it is whatever your marginal tax rate is. That will be what you will pay on income gained.

Regards,
 

seanverret

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QUOTE (markl @ Jan 29 2009, 07:21 AM) Rent To Owns are deemed by the CRA to be active income in the same way flipping a house would be because your original intention is to sell the property. They count it as inventory.

Thanks Mark.

First, if I owned a house for a while (2 years) and I was just about to get tenants into it who want to take advantage of the rent to own - how should I get myself prepared to make that happen?

Second, what income are you making during the rent to own process? If they`re paying the bills and supplementing the bills with an amount to make a future down payment which you are holding for them - where`s the income? Or does CRA simply view the sale as active income and thus I`m taxed fully at my current tax rate when the sale actually occurs on the sale price minus appraised price (e.g. today`s price) instead of it being a capital gain?

I hope I made that clear - perhaps I`ll call you to sort any other issues out...

Thanks
 

Cargren

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QUOTE (seanverret @ Jan 29 2009, 07:53 AM) Thanks Mark.

First, if I owned a house for a while (2 years) and I was just about to get tenants into it who want to take advantage of the rent to own - how should I get myself prepared to make that happen?

Second, what income are you making during the rent to own process? If they`re paying the bills and supplementing the bills with an amount to make a future down payment which you are holding for them - where`s the income? Or does CRA simply view the sale as active income and thus I`m taxed fully at my current tax rate when the sale actually occurs on the sale price minus appraised price (e.g. today`s price) instead of it being a capital gain?

I hope I made that clear - perhaps I`ll call you to sort any other issues out...

Thanks

Just thought I`d jump in and try to answer. Mark, you can always correct me if I`m wrong.

1) You should have 2 documents/contracts. The 1st would be your normal lease document written up just as you would for any tenant. The second should be an Option to Purchase Agreement that lays out the details for an option to purchase. This should lay out how much of an Option Deposit they are paying up front, how much Non-refundable credit you will give them for each month they pay on time, how long a term, what the buout price will be, and what can cause a default of contract.

2) Income? There are many different ways of approaching this. Do a search on rent to own on this site and you`ll find them. Don`t forget you are still the owner during the term of the rent to own contract. They are not paying the bills (other than utilities, phone, etc); you are paying the mortgage, property tax, insurance, etc just as you would with normal rental property.

The rent amount is generally a little higher than the normal market rent. You need to show the tenant that it is much like a forced savings plan that they are building every month. Again, there are different ways to calculate this amount and I have seen several excellent posts on this site. We tend to find that a factor of the home value works well; somewhere around 0.0075 to 0.0085 of the agreed upon current value. Others have different ways of calculating this.

You also need to agree on what the buyout price will be at the end of the contract. Again different ways of doing this. We appreciate a % every year; some may call it cost of financing.

You report annual income just as you would for normal rental property. The difference that Mark mentioned is when you sell the place, the net income will probably be taxed as pasive or business income and not as capital gains.

Hope this helps,
Rob
 

AndyLuchies

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QUOTE (Cargren @ Jan 29 2009, 12:33 PM) Just thought I`d jump in and try to answer. Mark, you can always correct me if I`m wrong.

1) You should have 2 documents/contracts. The 1st would be your normal lease document written up just as you would for any tenant. The second should be an Option to Purchase Agreement that lays out the details for an option to purchase. This should lay out how much of an Option Deposit they are paying up front, how much Non-refundable credit you will give them for each month they pay on time, how long a term, what the buout price will be, and what can cause a default of contract.

(WARNING: hearsay follows)

I`ve heard that in the contract you can`t say you`re giving the tenant "credit" towards to purchase, otherwise, when/if you try to evict your bad tenant, he can claim to have part ownership in the property and the courts will choose his side. Instead it should be titled something like "additional option consideration" that way the $$$ still goes towards the downpayment if they exercise the option, but doesn`t actually give them any ownership. also, short leases are easier upheld in court than, say, a 5 year lease. Even a 5 year lease with "additional option consideration" can make the courts side against you because of length of time the tenant has been there (even though contract is clear). perhaps better to do 1 yr renewables. NOTE: all this is worst case scenario stuff.

also, note: with RTO you should be making money every month (b/c they`re paying you more than expenses), and at sale. if you`re not making a positive cashflow, it isn`t really worth it...is it?
 

dpsusanthan

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Hi
I am a new immigrant to Canada with just over two months resident hear.I brought money as capital to offer a down payment and rest to be paied by a mortage loan after getting a employment in Canada.Now I have a employment and still not qualified to buy a house as the usual requirment of 12 month credit history from a Canadian bank and further,I hope to enter into residential property business later.But I would like to start early.
Can I hopefully try to get a rent to own(Leter) house at this circumstances? If possible who will be my supporters, such as Mortage brokers, real estate agents or banks? What should be my strategy? I like to share your experinces.
Thank you.
Susantha
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (dpsusanthan @ Jan 30 2009, 07:47 AM) I am a new immigrant to Canada with just over two months resident hear.I brought money as capital to offer a down payment and rest to be paied by a mortage loan after getting a employment in Canada.Now I have a employment and still not qualified to buy a house as the usual requirment of 12 month credit history from a Canadian bank and further,I hope to enter into residential property business later.But I would like to start early.
Can I hopefully try to get a rent to own(Leter) house at this circumstances? If possible who will be my supporters, such as Mortage brokers, real estate agents or banks? What should be my strategy? I like to share your experinces.
you should do a rent to own with a willing seller ! Talk to a realtor ..

or: rent for a year or 2 .. and then buy !
 

markl

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Hi Susantha,

We can help you find that seller and work with you to get you credit in Canada. Send me an email [email protected] or head to the website www.homeownersoon.com and you will find a lot of information and our application form.

Regards,
 
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