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How can Canadians vote for the Communist party of Canada??? (ndp) Has our IQ level fallen nationally?
Tell me the Canadian people are smarter than this
- Thread starter Stephen1151
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Although there is not a chance I would vote for the NDP again in my lifetime (did it in my silly youth in Ontario in 1990), I would suggest another measure you should consider is your own compassion or empathy quotient.
The people who vote for the NDP are not necessarily stupid, they are voting for the party that they feel will best serve their needs. They are voting for the party that sells them a vision to their own personal Belize.
Right or Wrong, they do not have to have a low IQ. Just a different world view. (That happens to differ from mine).
But I suppose it is easier to call them stupid communists and sit and watch Fox News.
Mike
The people who vote for the NDP are not necessarily stupid, they are voting for the party that they feel will best serve their needs. They are voting for the party that sells them a vision to their own personal Belize.
Right or Wrong, they do not have to have a low IQ. Just a different world view. (That happens to differ from mine).
But I suppose it is easier to call them stupid communists and sit and watch Fox News.
Mike
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[quote user=MikeMcC874]Although there is not a chance I would vote for the NDP again in my lifetime (did it in my silly youth in Ontario in 1990), I would suggest another measure you should consider is your own compassion or empathy quotient.
The people who vote for the NDP are not necessarily stupid, they are voting for the party that they feel will best serve their needs. They are voting for the party that sells them a vision to their own personal Belize.
Right or Wrong, they do not have to have a low IQ. Just a different world view. (That happens to differ from mine).
But I suppose it is easier to call them stupid communists and sit and watch Fox News.
Mike
Nicely said, Mike.
Have a good one!
JohnS
The people who vote for the NDP are not necessarily stupid, they are voting for the party that they feel will best serve their needs. They are voting for the party that sells them a vision to their own personal Belize.
Right or Wrong, they do not have to have a low IQ. Just a different world view. (That happens to differ from mine).
But I suppose it is easier to call them stupid communists and sit and watch Fox News.
Mike
Nicely said, Mike.
Have a good one!
JohnS
It's not that it's easier, it's that it happens to be accurate. Just like you did silly or stupid things like vote NDP they are doing the same thing. Money does not fall from the NDP or the LIBERAL sky.
Canadians for the most part, are well taken care of and overly taxed by our governments. It's long overdue that our governments need to stop spending and our money. It's time they only work with the taxes they are currently collecting.
Government is a huge leaky bucket, with too much corruption and many lining their pockets. We all need to realize this and stop thinking they can somehow spend our money better than we can. They have a big enough percentage of our income to govern and provide the proper services. They need to plug the leaks in their buckets and stop asking and spending more than they take in. They need to stop stealing from their mother's purse.
I know supervisors at revenue Canada that are on the take lining thei pockets for god's sake.
Those that ignore this surely have a low IQ.
Canadians for the most part, are well taken care of and overly taxed by our governments. It's long overdue that our governments need to stop spending and our money. It's time they only work with the taxes they are currently collecting.
Government is a huge leaky bucket, with too much corruption and many lining their pockets. We all need to realize this and stop thinking they can somehow spend our money better than we can. They have a big enough percentage of our income to govern and provide the proper services. They need to plug the leaks in their buckets and stop asking and spending more than they take in. They need to stop stealing from their mother's purse.
I know supervisors at revenue Canada that are on the take lining thei pockets for god's sake.
Those that ignore this surely have a low IQ.
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Sadly, I think people forget the follies of past Political parties. Or they are swayed by the current leader saying he is a different person and that could never happen now. However, if you do your Due Diligence and research the roots of these parties and the foundational thinking you would draw the same conclusions. That they are going to do exactly what their parties dictate.
I use to live in manitoba and moved out because the NDP in power refused to work towards job growth in the private sector, and refused to get a handle on social programs and spending. I hear people in the calgary area grumble about how Alberta should have a NDP government and then their union would have more strength and they would see more of the wealth. Um, no. the NDP here would bankrupt Alberta.
I am eager to have the new Atlas Shrugged movie shown in canada. See the integrations of socialism all over the place in Canada. I think John Galt sums things up nicely, "I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
I use to live in manitoba and moved out because the NDP in power refused to work towards job growth in the private sector, and refused to get a handle on social programs and spending. I hear people in the calgary area grumble about how Alberta should have a NDP government and then their union would have more strength and they would see more of the wealth. Um, no. the NDP here would bankrupt Alberta.
I am eager to have the new Atlas Shrugged movie shown in canada. See the integrations of socialism all over the place in Canada. I think John Galt sums things up nicely, "I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
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There is one plus in the rise of NDP support. In riding's with a close race between Liberal and Conservatives a vote for the NDP translates into a vote taken away from the Liberals therefor a likely win for Conservative.
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[quote user=Lucy] It's not that it's easier, it's that it happens to be accurate. .... Money does not fall from the NDP or the LIBERAL sky.
Those that ignore this surely have a low IQ.
I've got to ask....how do you make your opinion about the parties jive with historic facts? I mean, it was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who brought us back to balanced budgets. It was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who spent less than they took in, which to me is the foundation of establishing a good reserve fund, same as with investing in RE.
And, of course, it was the Conservatives, not the Liberals, who increased spending by billions and billions before the recession hit. And it was the Conservatives, not the Liberals, who pretty much wiped out the surplus before the recession hit.
So, of course the Liberals have also done some things poorly, just like the Tories haven't messed up everything they've touched, but how does someone with an IQ as high as yours mesh your opinions with divergent facts?
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
Those that ignore this surely have a low IQ.
I've got to ask....how do you make your opinion about the parties jive with historic facts? I mean, it was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who brought us back to balanced budgets. It was the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who spent less than they took in, which to me is the foundation of establishing a good reserve fund, same as with investing in RE.
And, of course, it was the Conservatives, not the Liberals, who increased spending by billions and billions before the recession hit. And it was the Conservatives, not the Liberals, who pretty much wiped out the surplus before the recession hit.
So, of course the Liberals have also done some things poorly, just like the Tories haven't messed up everything they've touched, but how does someone with an IQ as high as yours mesh your opinions with divergent facts?
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
Liberal MP Glen Pearson admits that his party has no plan to get Canada out of deficit and balance its budget. Again the liberal show their true colors as tax and spenders who rather transfer money from your pocket to the government coffers.
http://www.toryredux.org/2011/04/glen-pearson-admits-that-liberals-wont.html?m=1
Do you really believe fiberals know how to balance a budget.
http://www.toryredux.org/2011/04/glen-pearson-admits-that-liberals-wont.html?m=1
Do you really believe fiberals know how to balance a budget.
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[quote user=Rickson9]In general, we consider people smart when they share the same views as ourselves.
Which isn't very "smart." I know a number of extremely intelligent people who are politcally somewhere left of Castro, which is way the heck away from how I feel about governance.
They believe in equality of outcomes, whereas I'm in favour of equality of opportunity, my theory being that people will respond to incentives. Being intelligent isn't necessarily correlated with being [strike]right [/strike]correct.
Regards,
Michael
Which isn't very "smart." I know a number of extremely intelligent people who are politcally somewhere left of Castro, which is way the heck away from how I feel about governance.
They believe in equality of outcomes, whereas I'm in favour of equality of opportunity, my theory being that people will respond to incentives. Being intelligent isn't necessarily correlated with being [strike]right [/strike]correct.
Regards,
Michael
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[quote user=Lucy]Liberal MP Glen Pearson admits that his party has no plan to get Canada out of deficit and balance its budget. Again the liberal show their true colors as tax and spenders who rather transfer money from your pocket to the government coffers. http://www.toryredux.org/2011/04/glen-pearson-admits-that-liberals-wont.html?m=1 Do you really believe fiberals know how to balance a budget.
That actually isn't what he said, but anyways....
I believe in their ability, as they've done it before (which you conveniently ignored when I directly asked you, I noted), more than I believe in people that resort to playing silly insulting games with opponents' names.
And seeing as how Harper either directly lied about, or didn't know about, the oncoming recession until very, very late in the game (meaning, way after other parties acknowledged its imminence, and economists had been warning of it for months, too), I tend not to trust him, either. I mean, I don't trust liars, and I don't trust incompetents, but he showed he was either one or the other back then - take your pick!
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
That actually isn't what he said, but anyways....
I believe in their ability, as they've done it before (which you conveniently ignored when I directly asked you, I noted), more than I believe in people that resort to playing silly insulting games with opponents' names.
And seeing as how Harper either directly lied about, or didn't know about, the oncoming recession until very, very late in the game (meaning, way after other parties acknowledged its imminence, and economists had been warning of it for months, too), I tend not to trust him, either. I mean, I don't trust liars, and I don't trust incompetents, but he showed he was either one or the other back then - take your pick!
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
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[quote user=bizaro86]They believe in equality of outcomes, whereas I'm in favour of equality of opportunity, my theory being that people will respond to incentives. Being intelligent isn't necessarily correlated with being [strike]right [/strike]correct.
Regards,
Michael
I'm a huge believer in equality of opportunity. One of my biggest problems with Harper's crew, though, is that so many of their policies don't support this. They seem to be incapable of recognizing that the deck is incredibly stacked against some people, and as they can't recognize that, they're not able to ensure that opportunities are equal.
I mean, I know that personally, I've been very lucky. I come from a small town (so, no gang problems at all). I come from a stable family that loved and supported me (so I didn't have to look elsewhere for acceptance) so I developed a fair amount of self-confidence. We were upper middle class, with the health benefits that are co-related. We could afford to send me to university for a couple degrees, so I could become a professional. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea - all the cards in the deck are stacked in my favour, so of course I'm going to succeed. And if I didn't, the only person to blame would truly be me. And if that-version-of-me wanted to live off of government support, this-version-of-me would absolutely be adamantly opposed to that.
However, in Harper's world, everyone is basically living a this-version-of-me life, with only minor variances. It doesn't have things for the people that come from the diametrically opposite side of the tracks. It doesn't provide the support needed to help those that come from broken homes, and have no education, and have no career prospects, and whose only sense of community comes from criminals (gangs and such), and etc, etc, etc. It doesn't provide the support necessary to help people break out of that destructive cycle - its primary focus is on punishing them if they mis-step. So Harper insists on using reactive measures (unsuccessfully) to problems where proactive steps are proven to be more successful.
So I ask, why not do more to eliminate this cycle in the first place? That would do much more to ensure "equality of opportunity" than anything else.
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
Regards,
Michael
I'm a huge believer in equality of opportunity. One of my biggest problems with Harper's crew, though, is that so many of their policies don't support this. They seem to be incapable of recognizing that the deck is incredibly stacked against some people, and as they can't recognize that, they're not able to ensure that opportunities are equal.
I mean, I know that personally, I've been very lucky. I come from a small town (so, no gang problems at all). I come from a stable family that loved and supported me (so I didn't have to look elsewhere for acceptance) so I developed a fair amount of self-confidence. We were upper middle class, with the health benefits that are co-related. We could afford to send me to university for a couple degrees, so I could become a professional. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea - all the cards in the deck are stacked in my favour, so of course I'm going to succeed. And if I didn't, the only person to blame would truly be me. And if that-version-of-me wanted to live off of government support, this-version-of-me would absolutely be adamantly opposed to that.
However, in Harper's world, everyone is basically living a this-version-of-me life, with only minor variances. It doesn't have things for the people that come from the diametrically opposite side of the tracks. It doesn't provide the support needed to help those that come from broken homes, and have no education, and have no career prospects, and whose only sense of community comes from criminals (gangs and such), and etc, etc, etc. It doesn't provide the support necessary to help people break out of that destructive cycle - its primary focus is on punishing them if they mis-step. So Harper insists on using reactive measures (unsuccessfully) to problems where proactive steps are proven to be more successful.
So I ask, why not do more to eliminate this cycle in the first place? That would do much more to ensure "equality of opportunity" than anything else.
Have a good one, all!
JohnS
JohnS; if your favorite party can provide all these entitlements and balance the budget while not increasing taxes an preferably lowering taxes I am all for it. They have enough to work with would you not agree? Trim the fat, cut out the corruption and there will be enough to satisfy your heart.
Right now there are too many not buying the cow because the milk is free. This is wrong and infuriatesme and should you as well. Tax and spend has to end now!
Right now there are too many not buying the cow because the milk is free. This is wrong and infuriatesme and should you as well. Tax and spend has to end now!
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Mabey what I said was a little harsh so I will clarify for thoes who were offended.
In an election many people can follow there emotions and stop basing decisions on logical arguements. Obviously everyone has a different world view. Remember many people who have a high IQ have been part of a mob and even influenced by mob mentality. When you have people like JohnS demonizing Stephen Harper as if he is the most horrible thing that has happened to Canada, it makes you wonder if many voters like him are not using there IQ but succumb to there emotional knee jerk reactions. What I should have said was, "has our emotional intelegence fallen nationally?" On the other hand I could be wrong. Some of thoes who are voting NDP may not be emotionally driven but really like governments who drive out business, up there taxes and cause poverty for all (such as we have seen in far left socialist governments).
In an election many people can follow there emotions and stop basing decisions on logical arguements. Obviously everyone has a different world view. Remember many people who have a high IQ have been part of a mob and even influenced by mob mentality. When you have people like JohnS demonizing Stephen Harper as if he is the most horrible thing that has happened to Canada, it makes you wonder if many voters like him are not using there IQ but succumb to there emotional knee jerk reactions. What I should have said was, "has our emotional intelegence fallen nationally?" On the other hand I could be wrong. Some of thoes who are voting NDP may not be emotionally driven but really like governments who drive out business, up there taxes and cause poverty for all (such as we have seen in far left socialist governments).
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Speaking for myself, I find the following useful to keep in mind.
"In other words, when we think we're reasoning, we may instead be rationalizing. Or to use an analogy offered by University of Virginia psychologist Jonathan Haidt: We may think we're being scientists, but we're actually being lawyers. Our "reasoning" is a means to a predetermined end`winning our "case"`and is shot through with biases. They include "confirmation bias," in which we give greater heed to evidence and arguments that bolster our beliefs, and "disconfirmation bias," in which we expend disproportionate energy trying to debunk or refute views and arguments that we find uncongenial."
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
"In other words, when we think we're reasoning, we may instead be rationalizing. Or to use an analogy offered by University of Virginia psychologist Jonathan Haidt: We may think we're being scientists, but we're actually being lawyers. Our "reasoning" is a means to a predetermined end`winning our "case"`and is shot through with biases. They include "confirmation bias," in which we give greater heed to evidence and arguments that bolster our beliefs, and "disconfirmation bias," in which we expend disproportionate energy trying to debunk or refute views and arguments that we find uncongenial."
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
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[quote user=JohnS]I'm a huge believer in equality of opportunity. One of my biggest problems with Harper's crew, though
My post was intended to express my own thoughts, not advocate for any one political party. I can see rational reasons for voting for either the Conservatives (stronger economic ideology) or the Liberals (stronger economic record from the 1990s).
I can also see rational reasons for voting NDP/Block. If greater redistribution were to benefit an individual voter/region, it's likely that those voters/regions would vote for a party/candidate in favour of that. To do otherwise would be acting against their own interest, even though greater redistribution (especially geographically) is extremely economically inefficient. I personally would never do such, but maybe that's only because economic redistribution is against my interests as a high income person living in a high income city/province.
Regards,
Michael
My post was intended to express my own thoughts, not advocate for any one political party. I can see rational reasons for voting for either the Conservatives (stronger economic ideology) or the Liberals (stronger economic record from the 1990s).
I can also see rational reasons for voting NDP/Block. If greater redistribution were to benefit an individual voter/region, it's likely that those voters/regions would vote for a party/candidate in favour of that. To do otherwise would be acting against their own interest, even though greater redistribution (especially geographically) is extremely economically inefficient. I personally would never do such, but maybe that's only because economic redistribution is against my interests as a high income person living in a high income city/province.
Regards,
Michael
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The major problem I have with this countries political policies is we have moved too far towards and have become in my opinion a nanny state. Obviously we do want a solid social system supported by our taxes but it is frustrating when I/we the working class see more and greater demands from those receiving our hard earned tax dollars and governments intent on catering to those demands under the pressure of advocacy groups..
I prefer any party that places restraints on those expenditures, lowering my taxes as opposed to those that would prefer to increase expenditures on the "less advantaged" at my expense.
Realistically we can not continue to provide the same level of services without having to pay more and therefor I would opt to reduce services, improve those provided and increase the policing of tax give aways.
As a landlord in Ontario I see the ongoing abuse and outright fraud that exists in our social systems and would truly like to see a party that would opt to weed out the abuses as opposed to increase the spending. As far as criminals are concerned I have no sympathy and no faith in "rehabilitation" programs as the cost is not proportionately reflected in the results. Social upbringing be damned.
Obviously the NDP would be my last choice (Greens excluded) and as a official opposition party would be frightening.
I prefer any party that places restraints on those expenditures, lowering my taxes as opposed to those that would prefer to increase expenditures on the "less advantaged" at my expense.
Realistically we can not continue to provide the same level of services without having to pay more and therefor I would opt to reduce services, improve those provided and increase the policing of tax give aways.
As a landlord in Ontario I see the ongoing abuse and outright fraud that exists in our social systems and would truly like to see a party that would opt to weed out the abuses as opposed to increase the spending. As far as criminals are concerned I have no sympathy and no faith in "rehabilitation" programs as the cost is not proportionately reflected in the results. Social upbringing be damned.
Obviously the NDP would be my last choice (Greens excluded) and as a official opposition party would be frightening.
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Another Ayn Rand fan.... YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!