Tenant is dealing with drugs....

[NorthernAlex]

... haa, would it be too easy if everything would work without hassle?

I just finished one topic in my rental place and found another one. The last couple weeks I was noticing, while cutting the lawn, a huge 3 minutes visitor traffic at one of my tenants. Yesterday, while collecting rent I noticed that he had roughly one inch of cash in his wallet (all, 10, 20 and 50$ notes). He is on ODSP. I mentioned to him, that he has a lot of money in his wallet and that he better be careful with the amount of visitors he has.
Whiling collecting rent from the other apartments I asked one tenant if he is noticing a higher volume of guests in the house and if they bother him noisewise.

He answered, that he noticed the higher volume of guests and that he is very sure that this is because of "illegal activities of the other apartment". He actually bought once there weeds "for a friend".

I was shocked, to be honest, about this info (him buying there, but also having proof), that I told him, that I don`t agree to any drugs and don`t allow them in my building. He repeated, that he just bought it for a friend. ... YEAH, right!

Now, the dealer apartment is in the basement floor with another apartment (great tenant, engineer, but is moving this month because of this situation, I assume, found another tenant already, great tenant, too), where I installed 6 weeks ago a light motion detector in the hall way, which was destroyed in the last 5 days (noticed it yesterday).

A 3rd tenant, a nurse, is working shift hours and wrote me, that she caught persons lingering on the property (and also relieved themselfs). Asking them to leave, they said, they are guests of this dealer tenant.

So far he was paying on time (of course, in cash).

I went to the police and mentioned them the situation and the above mentioned infos, but they only told me, that I would have to see them do an illegal act and call them in this very second that they could arrest in the act. Yeeeeaaahhh!!

From my point of view is this tenant a danger for my other tenants. What do you suggest? N6 (possession of an illegal drug for the purposes of trafficking) or N5 (reasonable enjoyment) or ... without paper, go to them and tell them that I know about his illegal activities and that I want them to leave or I will start legal steps?

One more of my inherited tenants....

 

[invst4profit]

You could find out what time of day he has the most customers visiting and set yourself up to take there pictures and pictures of there license plates. If they or the tenant ask what you are doing tell them you are building a case for the police to arrest and charge the tenant.
Once the tenant was aware of what you are doing ask him if he is interested in moving.

This is not necessarily what I would do but it may work as drug users do not generally like getting there pictures taken.
You may want to have a large companion with you when you try this.
Otherwise you can try to evict for possession of illegal drugs but it is difficult to prove.

 

[NorthernAlex]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Aug 2 2009, 07:18 PM) ......This is not necessarily what I would do but it may work as drug users do not generally like getting there pictures taken.
You may want to have a large companion with you when you try this......

Would you mind, Greg, to contact me with a short email what you would do? [email protected]


I thought of using the N5 with

Reason 2 - Interfered with Reasonable Enjoyment of the Premises if, within seven days of receiving this notice, the tenant stops the activity that you have described in Part B, the notice will be void and the tenant will not have to move out.

because, he will not be able to discontinue within 7 days.

My description would be, that the amount and kind of visitors who are visiting them during all night and day times are disturbing and frightening other tenants. Other tenants are moving away and am not feeling save.

Would N5 work here? I never used a N5 so far.

 

[invst4profit]

Serve him with the N5 and N6 at the same time. You will only have to pay one fee if you apply to the board with both at the same time...Be very careful on the timing so as not to have them dismissed on a technicality.

Since you have to ask how I would deal with this you are obviously not the type to resolve this problem as I would. No insult intended but you have already stated that you feel unsafe so what I would suggest would go well beyond your comfort zone.
My advice is for you to go through the proper channels.

I can`t e mail you I am off work on vacation and do not have e mail at home. Sorry.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Thank you, Greg and Enjoy your holiday! I definitly don`t feel insulted and am grateful for all the input I get.
Only 6 months hands on experience here. There is certainly a lot what I have to learn. I see this all as an experience and learning curve. So far I never had to deal with "these" kind of people (or I didn`t know).

I will collect tomorrow some signed statements from other tenants to have them on file. A friend of mine works for the OPP, maybe he can check if the dealer is on probation as he knew dealers girl friend (she is on probation). If so I will ask the dealer to leave by the end of month quietly, otherwise I will start legal action and the eviction process and go after him with every legal aspect I can cover.

You mentioned timing: Wouldn`t "the faster, the better" be the right approach?

 

[Greatful]

Doesn`t sound like he is a danger to your other tenants.
Still, the high amount of traffic is unfair to other neighbors.

 

[NorthernAlex]

Greatful: Maybe he is not dangerous and maybe a nice guy, but there is also his girl friend. She is a real trouble maker. Complaining, shouting, swearing aso. ... I just don`t want to drop the quality of living for the other parties.

I also had some damage (motion detector for the light was destroyed from him or his guests) and the nurse, who is leaving at 5 a.m. to her shift, had a stoned person sitting in her door way.

Since I want to handle my rentals as a business, I can`t count in a "nice guy"-bonus (upon my expenses). I already lost the girl next door because of the dealer.

 

[Savard]

I had a drug dealer across the street from a house of mine. My tenants complained to me. I called the police everytime I noticed a buyer and they blew me off. I called the local businesses, the school principal to see if they could help and I sent a letter to the landlord. That did not seem to help either.

What did work was to send a letter to the Seargent and the Inspector at the local discrict and follow up with phone calls. The squeaky wheel got grease and the police raided the house soon after.
I think this is a last resort as the landlord did not handle the situation.

You should hire a Sheriff/Baliff to enforce your lease and get the tenant out. Do not undertake removing a tenant if you feel threatened.

 

[Greatful]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Aug 3 2009, 08:58 AM) Greatful: Maybe he is not dangerous and maybe a nice guy, but there is also his girl friend. She is a real trouble maker. Complaining, shouting, swearing aso. ... I just don`t want to drop the quality of living for the other parties.

I also had some damage (motion detector for the light was destroyed from him or his guests) and the nurse, who is leaving at 5 a.m. to her shift, had a stoned person sitting in her door way.

Since I want to handle my rentals as a business, I can`t count in a "nice guy"-bonus (upon my expenses). I already lost the girl next door because of the dealer.

Alex, nuff said.
Waaaay to much crap to deal with.
It seems as though you have a good repore with people/your tenants.
I would talk to the dealer and let him know there have been complaints and threats by your neighbors(not your tenants in the same building) that they are going to report the activities that are going on to the local police.
If he denies it just say "look, even I can tell when I drive by to check on the property it is obvious what is going on with the people coming in and out of here and the constant odour coming from your residence. Not everyone is stupid."
"Look, you haven`t been a problem to myself and I respect that but we have to take into consideration the other people that live around here to.
You can either completely stop what you are doing as of yesterday or I will have to tell the neighbors that you are unwilling to co-operate and allow them to call the police and have the residence marked as a drug house and surveilanced.
If you had a problem with any of the other tenants in the building I would deal with it...it is just as fair for me to deal with you if these actions don`t stop...fair enough?
This is your final warning, and because you have been good paying rent on time out of respect for your co-operation I will give you $200 plus deposit to help you move into another residence of your choosing if you are unable to quit your illegal actions."

Something like that anyway...just bouncing some ideas off of you.

Good luck!

 

[EdRenkema]

QUOTE (Greatful @ Aug 3 2009, 05:13 PM) Alex, nuff said.
Waaaay to much crap to deal with.
It seems as though you have a good repore with people/your tenants.
I would talk to the dealer and let him know there have been complaints and threats by your neighbors(not your tenants in the same building) that they are going to report the activities that are going on to the local police.
If he denies it just say "look, even I can tell when I drive by to check on the property it is obvious what is going on with the people coming in and out of here and the constant odour coming from your residence. Not everyone is stupid."
"Look, you haven`t been a problem to myself and I respect that but we have to take into consideration the other people that live around here to.
You can either completely stop what you are doing as of yesterday or I will have to tell the neighbors that you are unwilling to co-operate and allow them to call the police and have the residence marked as a drug house and surveilanced.
If you had a problem with any of the other tenants in the building I would deal with it...it is just as fair for me to deal with you if these actions don`t stop...fair enough?
This is your final warning, and because you have been good paying rent on time out of respect for your co-operation I will give you $200 plus deposit to help you move into another residence of your choosing if you are unable to quit your illegal actions."

Something like that anyway...just bouncing some ideas off of you.

Good luck!


Huh?
Why give lowlifes the benfit of the doubt.
Use all available legal means to evict, if anything it is your responsibility as a good landlord and the cost of doing business.
Otherwise don`t get into this business.
Rebecca Bryan has written lots of posts on this forum on how to get it done.

 

[invst4profit]

Never pay a bad tenant to leave. It attracts more of the same looking to make a quick buck off of a LL.

Word travels fast in the unsavory world of undesirable tenants.

 

[TerryKruse]

You may have already done this, but if not, I would give a 24 hour notice to enter to make sure they are not "cooking" drugs in the home.

I had a similar situation last year and I left the eviction form and a letter stating my reasons for the eviction, taped to the front door of the home.

When I did speak to the tenant, he left within the 14 days, without any problems (use the N5 and N6 forms, as previously mentioned). This doesn`t mean that yours will leave this way, but if you feel uncomfortable bring a friend or family member with you to speak to him, hire a bailiff or phone him after leaving the forms.

I would also speak to the police again, so they give a better presence in the neighbourhood. This should make it more uncomfortable for him and his clients.

I would do whatever I could to get rid of the tenant.

Be strong.
Terry

 

[NorthernAlex]

I spent yesterday 3h to count who and how many people were coming. I counted 18 (!) visitors, mostly in the age between 15 and 35 years.

After the 3rd hour I waited until a minor came back out and met him in the hall way. I asked him quite rough how much he paid for the gram as I want to buy now too.

He asked (scared) what I meant, but I just replied not to ask so stupid questions. He answered that he paid 50$ and even showed his purchase to me!

I also got a written statement from one tenant that she knows that they are dealing (their bed room is above dealers living room) as she can hear very often the conversation at night and also a 2nd statement of a second tenant, that she is scared of the amount and kind of people coming and leaving at night.

The tenant above their living room even offered that, if I give a recorder, she would try to tape it. I won`t go for that.

I will confront them as Greatful mentioned, but am not sure if I want to offer some incentive.

 

[Savard]

I’d hire a professional. Unless, you feel completely comfortable with removing this tenant.

BTW: I had a relative that was shot and killed trying to remove squatters from his land. So, we just don’t enter into any situation that we don’t feel comfortable with.

 

[Anonymous]

I have had 3 tenant dealing drugs and one grow op. The drug dealers were in nice homes in nice communities and passed all of our checks. What gave it away was visitors, really nice cars for the type of work they did and the neighbours complaining about the drive bys, security systems, bars on the basement windows and a big dog that wasn`t being treated as the family pet. We give the neighbours of our homes our phone number to call us if there are any issues.

Here is how we dealt with the drug dealers. I gave them a 24 hour notice I was giving an inspection and that I needed them to be there for safety reaseons as 2 of them had big dogs. I took in another person with me and we did a very thorough inspection that took a long time. We chatted and were friendly and told them how nice the homes looked etc. At the very end of the inpsection, I looked them right in the face and said "are you dealing drugs out of this home". They all denied it of course. I would then tell them that I am getting complaints from the neighbours and for that I will be by everyday watching the activities to ensure nothing is going on. In all 3 cases they gave immediate notice the next day.

They didn`t want me in their business and I didn`t want them in my homes and I made that very clear. If you feel that you are in danger, make a police report by going down to the police station. See if the neighbours are willing to do the same.

The key is to stay in their face because they don`t want that. No one has the right to effect my business with illegal activities and I go at it from that angle.

I hope this helps some.
Thanks Carol Garrett

 

[ShannonMurree]

QUOTE (NorthernAlex @ Aug 4 2009, 03:34 PM) I spent yesterday 3h to count who and how many people were coming. I counted 18 (!) visitors, mostly in the age between 15 and 35 years.

After the 3rd hour I waited until a minor came back out and met him in the hall way. I asked him quite rough how much he paid for the gram as I want to buy now too.

He asked (scared) what I meant, but I just replied not to ask so stupid questions. He answered that he paid 50$ and even showed his purchase to me!

I also got a written statement from one tenant that she knows that they are dealing (their bed room is above dealers living room) as she can hear very often the conversation at night and also a 2nd statement of a second tenant, that she is scared of the amount and kind of people coming and leaving at night.

The tenant above their living room even offered that, if I give a recorder, she would try to tape it. I won`t go for that.

I will confront them as Greatful mentioned, but am not sure if I want to offer some incentive.

You`re in Ontario so some of the suggestions won`t work (i.e. can`t post notices on doors). DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. NOW you have sufficient evidence and can make a statement and make a report to the police. I agree that they don`t want you to know their business but you cannot guarantee the safety of yourself and tenants.

Go to a lawyer or notary and make a Notarized Statement, Oath or Affidavit to that effect. Go to the police, make a report and then serve any and all Notices to Terminate. GET THEM OUT. No playing nice and it`s a business for them. They will do whatever they can to protect that. Don`t ruin losing good tenants. Charge higher rents going forward and change your tenant profile. You don`t want it known as the "crack house" or "drug house" and have that stigma.

This is not to be taken lightly. If they`re growing, also other serious issues (insurance reason, fire reasons if it blows up) then you`ll never be able to re-sell that place because of mold, again, stigma, etc. Protect your investment.