Unique Dilemma re Rent Receipt

[Nir]

Hi All,

I have the following situation in one of my apartments:

- Joe is the only person on the lease.
- 6 months ago his girl friend moved in to live with him.
- A month ago Joe was sent to jail for a year. His girl-friend still lives there and wants to stay.
- I plan to end his tenancy. I`m working on that. no problem here.
- his girl friend wants to continue paying me. I have no problem with her staying there.
However, obviously I can not sign a new Lease with her before ending the lease with Joe.

I planned to mention on the rent receipt I give her that she paid ON BEHLF OF JOE (because as mentioned he is the only person on the lease)
However, she insists I do NOT mention she paid on behalf of Joe, just her name. She said "otherwise, government will NOT pay me for rent!"

Should I just agree to her request and not mention Joe on the rent receipt?

THANKS.

 

[vandriani]

Wow, every time I try to type a response to this, I get thrown into a loop with other issues (IE personal possession if you evict him). Ultimately, you would like to get him off the lease and qualify her (if you want to continue renting to her). Maybe you can amend the lease to add her in. Joe would have to sign the amendment of which she could be responsible. If you do not want to continue to rent to her then maybe you could refuse payment and evict them both, not sure if this is legal. I don`t know if any of these are actually legal where you own the property. Maybe a call to the RTO without names mentioned help.

 

[invst4profit]

You make the receipt out to the person who paid you the money or in the case of a couple to the person whose name they want on the receipt. The actual name on the lease is not relevant the person making the claim is responsible for proving they live there and they paid. They work out any problems with revenue Canada.
If revenue Canada investigates you tell them who lived there who paid and why the receipt is in the name it is.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 26 2010, 03:49 PM) You make the receipt out to the person who paid you the money or in the case of a couple to the person whose name they want on the receipt. The actual name on the lease is not relevant the person making the claim is responsible for proving they live there and they paid. They work out any problems with revenue Canada.If revenue Canada investigates you tell them who lived there who paid and why the receipt is in the name it is.

Thanks Greg! will do..

I like your advice since I am ok with her staying. otherwise it would be a bit more risky to suddenly mention her name (a new name) on the receipt while in the process of trying to evict them.

one more question related to this situation: is it a good idea, out of courtesy, to send the notice to terminate a tenancy to Joe to jail in addition to leaving it in the apartment where his girl friend can and perhaps should see it as well?
by the way, they are no longer friends as apparently he is in jail because he assaulted her. therefore her receiving the notice does not mean he will be notified

Regards,
Neil

 

[invst4profit]

I would only send it to the apartment but you could call the LTB 3 or 4 times and get a consensus on there policy regarding this matter.
I tend to not overly stress myself regarding the LTB and generally do what is logical.
I your case I doubt Joe will be expecting you to hold the apartment for his return.

It is probably a bad idea to have his girl friend still living in your property when his taxpayer financed vacation terminates.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 27 2010, 07:57 AM) It is probably a bad idea to have his girl friend still living in your property.

why? she has no intention to live with him ever again and he can not get close to her without police.
so why, if I evict him as mentioned, is it a bad idea to let his girl friend stay there? Thanks.

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (investmart @ Mar 27 2010, 10:35 AM) why? she has no intention to live with him ever again and he can not get close to her without police.
so why, if I evict him as mentioned, is it a bad idea to let his girl friend stay there? Thanks.




Neil,

A few reasons... One is that when he is out of jail, he may come looking for her either to get even or to reconcile. Two is if she is a victim mentality type of person she will tend to attract the same kind of men as Joe, if not reconcile with Joe himself. I had a very similar situation in one of my apartments long time ago. Is there a restraining order against him?

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Mar 27 2010, 11:23 AM) Neil,

A few reasons... One is that when he is out of jail, he may come looking for her either to get even or to reconcile. Two is if she is a victim mentality type of person she will tend to attract the same kind of men as Joe, if not reconcile with Joe himself. I had a very similar situation in one of my apartments long time ago. Is there a restraining order against him?

Thanks Oleg. YES, exactly there is a restraining order against him. I am tempted to let her stay. hope it`s not a big mistake(?)

 

[MichelSelim]

Off course, it depends on the province where you are, but I am wondering:
If you allow her to stay and her name is not on the lease, what would be the situation when it comes to renewing the lease? Would she be considered at that point as month-to-month tenant since her name is not on the lease? If so, evicting her would be harder in case anything goes wrong down the road.

I hope veteran Rein members will correct me if I am wrong about my assumptions.
Thanks,

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (MichelSelim @ Mar 27 2010, 01:27 PM) Off course, it depends on the province where you are, but I am wondering:
If you allow her to stay and her name is not on the lease, what would be the situation when it comes to renewing the lease? Would she be considered at that point as month-to-month tenant since her name is not on the lease? If so, evicting her would be harder in case anything goes wrong down the road.

I hope veteran Rein members will correct me if I am wrong about my assumptions.
Thanks,

Hi, I`m in Ontario. well if she stays then the plan is simply to sign a new lease with her. However, legally this can (and will) only be done after ending his existing lease. obviously you can’t have two leases for the same apt at the same time.

 

[invst4profit]

If she has been living in the apartment for more than 30 days with your knowledge she is a legal tenant with all the rights as Joe to continue living there. In Ontario it is irrelevant if the tenants name actually appears on a lease agreement or not.
You should definitely go through the process of officially removing Joe as a tenant via the LTB. This does not however terminate the existing lease agreement. Placing her name on a lease is wise however it is voluntary on her part to sign. In the event she refuses to sigh, a new or the existing lease, you are stuck with her as a tenant without a signed lease as she is assumed to be a existing tenant under Joe`s old lease.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 27 2010, 05:12 PM) If she has been living in the apartment for more than 30 days with your knowledge she is a legal tenant with all the rights as Joe to continue living there. In Ontario it is irrelevant if the tenants name actually appears on a lease agreement or not.
You should definitely go through the process of officially removing Joe as a tenant via the LTB. This does not however terminate the existing lease agreement. Placing her name on a lease is wise however it is voluntary on her part to sign. In the event she refuses to sigh, a new or the existing lease, you are stuck with her as a tenant without a signed lease as she is assumed to be a existing tenant under Joe`s old lease.


Actually the feedback I got is different: since she is not on the lease and IS just a co-tenant of Joe, she is AUTOMATICALLY evicted if he is evicted. so if I decide to involve the sheriff for example then anyone in the apartment, related to Joe, will be evicted including her especially since she can not show any other lease to the police. this is the feedback from LTB AND landlord selfhelp. Are you saying this is incorrect/not the case!?

 

[invst4profit]

The advice they have given you is in fact incorrect.

If you should decide to evict and she is represented by duty council you will find out exactly how wrong there advice is.
As far as the police are concerned they could care less whether she has a lease or not and will tell you it is a LL/tenant issue and none of there business.

The reality is when you are renting to a number of tenants it is necessary to include the name of every tenant on the eviction form whether they are on the lease or not. If you miss a name the board will not uphold the eviction. If you can not justify the eviction of each individual tenant the board will not uphold the eviction of all tenants.

What will be your justification before the board for evicting the woman. In the event she can convince the board that she has lived there for more than 30 days as a tenant, with your knowledge, is able and prepared to pay the rent and has personally done nothing to justify an eviction what are your grounds.

Regardless of how many tenants share a unit and regardless of the conditions of the lease each tenant has a individual right to occupy that unit. She has become a legal tenant and therefore has a right to remain regardless of the reasoning for evicting Joe.

Assuming she is without fault and is prepared to uphold the requirements of the RTA and the LTB and the existing lease agreement that she has lived under up to this point in time.

 

[JohnS]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 27 2010, 09:19 PM) The advice they have given you is in fact incorrect.

If you should decide to evict and she is represented by duty council you will find out exactly how wrong there advice is.
As far as the police are concerned they could care less whether she has a lease or not and will tell you it is a LL/tenant issue and none of there business.

The reality is when you are renting to a number of tenants it is necessary to include the name of every tenant on the eviction form whether they are on the lease or not. If you miss a name the board will not uphold the eviction. If you can not justify the eviction of each individual tenant the board will not uphold the eviction of all tenants.

What will be your justification before the board for evicting the woman. In the event she can convince the board that she has lived there for more than 30 days as a tenant, with your knowledge, is able and prepared to pay the rent and has personally done nothing to justify an eviction what are your grounds.

Regardless of how many tenants share a unit and regardless of the conditions of the lease each tenant has a individual right to occupy that unit. She has become a legal tenant and therefore has a right to remain regardless of the reasoning for evicting Joe.

Assuming she is without fault and is prepared to uphold the requirements of the RTA and the LTB and the existing lease agreement that she has lived under up to this point in time.

Even assuming that all this is correct, will she know it? And wouldn`t it make it easier all around if she signs another lease - it`ll make the paperwork and such flow better, won`t it? Couldn`t this be a way to get her to sign a lease, if she`s hesitant about it in the first place?

Have a good one, all!

JohnS

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (JohnS @ Mar 27 2010, 06:59 PM) Even assuming that all this is correct, will she know it? And wouldn`t it make it easier all around if she signs another lease - it`ll make the paperwork and such flow better, won`t it? Couldn`t this be a way to get her to sign a lease, if she`s hesitant about it in the first place?

Have a good one, all!

JohnS

I would elect to go with this approach, i.e. try to get her to sign a new lease. Also, if you did not do any due diligence/qualification process on her when she moved in, now would be a good time to ensure she has good tenantcy history.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Mar 27 2010, 06:19 PM) The advice they have given you is in fact incorrect.

If you should decide to evict and she is represented by duty council you will find out exactly how wrong there advice is.
As far as the police are concerned they could care less whether she has a lease or not and will tell you it is a LL/tenant issue and none of there business.

The reality is when you are renting to a number of tenants it is necessary to include the name of every tenant on the eviction form whether they are on the lease or not. If you miss a name the board will not uphold the eviction. If you can not justify the eviction of each individual tenant the board will not uphold the eviction of all tenants.

What will be your justification before the board for evicting the woman. In the event she can convince the board that she has lived there for more than 30 days as a tenant, with your knowledge, is able and prepared to pay the rent and has personally done nothing to justify an eviction what are your grounds.

Regardless of how many tenants share a unit and regardless of the conditions of the lease each tenant has a individual right to occupy that unit. She has become a legal tenant and therefore has a right to remain regardless of the reasoning for evicting Joe.

Assuming she is without fault and is prepared to uphold the requirements of the RTA and the LTB and the existing lease agreement that she has lived under up to this point in time.

this is different than input from LTB. bottom line, LTB will end his tenancy and provide me with an eviction order. then the police WILL EVICT EVERYONE in the apartment (if I involved them) - I was told once presented with an eviction order from LTB, the police does not care who lives there. a standard eviction is an eviction by apt not person!
luckily I have not had to go through that process yet but that is the feedback LTB. maybe will contact them again to clarify and update later.. thanks.
ps. in a way you can`t say LTB is wrong because they make the decision. it`s like saying a judge is wrong when he tells you tomorrow he will send someone to jail. he makes the decision not us

 

[JohnS]

QUOTE (investmart @ Mar 28 2010, 10:57 AM) ps. in a way you can`t say LTB is wrong because they make the decision. it`s like saying a judge is wrong when he tells you tomorrow he will send someone to jail. he makes the decision not us

I haven`t had to deal with them, but this isn`t quite right. The guy on the phone isn`t the one making the decision, but rather he`s just telling you what he thinks the decision will be. So, it`s more akin to the judge`s bailiff saying what he thinks the judge will do tomorrow, based on watching the judge make decisions in the past, and then the judge doing something else.

Have a good one!

JohnS

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (JohnS @ Mar 28 2010, 06:13 PM) I haven`t had to deal with them, but this isn`t quite right. The guy on the phone isn`t the one making the decision, but rather he`s just telling you what he thinks the decision will be. So, it`s more akin to the judge`s bailiff saying what he thinks the judge will do tomorrow, based on watching the judge make decisions in the past, and then the judge doing something else.

Have a good one!

JohnS

ok. nice one

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Mar 27 2010, 10:23 AM) Neil,

A few reasons... One is that when he is out of jail, he may come looking for her either to get even or to reconcile. Two is if she is a victim mentality type of person she will tend to attract the same kind of men as Joe, if not reconcile with Joe himself. I had a very similar situation in one of my apartments long time ago. Is there a restraining order against him?

Hi Oleg,

you mentioned you had a similar situation. did you keep the partner or evict?

so should I just evict her together with him instead of taking the risk? I didn`t sign any paper for her yet.

having 2nd thoughts re keeping her there.

Thanks again,
Neil