Water Bill Doubled Following Neighbor’s Work on His Property

[Nir]

Hi Everyone,

I have 2 issues to resolve and would appreciate any advice from other investors:

1. My water bill has doubled based on a new annual reading done by the city. This happened after a neighbor who owns the home beside my 3-Plex, did some work on his basement. He worked on my lot – the area between our properties with my verbal permission I guess. He rents his basement and uses main floor to give sports lessons I think.

I don`t want to be too suspicious but is there even a chance this guy connected his rented basement`s water system to mine!?

Has anyone ever had to investigate something like that? How do you start?

Basically, what he did is dug with a bobcat last summer while I was not there. He started working there after mentioning something about it to me when he once saw me there a few weeks earlier.

I guess he thought I said OK, in reality I wasn`t sure what exactly he was going to do (and still not sure what exactly he did there). However, he did clearly explain it is related to a basement leakage he has had, so he needed access to his external wall – the one facing my property. Also, when done he laid his hose opening on my property, again on the area between our properties where the hose came out from the ground, close to my backyard. I guess that`s ok (is it?) because yes, that space happened to belong to me but really it is the area between our buildings.

2. While working there with his bobcat he apparently damaged my external wall a little bit. One of the blocks is going inwards now. Not sure how significant the damage is just by looking at it and how to address this with him(?). I guess ideally, I fix, he pays(?) but unfortunately he might not admit he did it.

I have not contacted him yet about any of the above and would appreciate any advice before I do.

Thanks,
Neil

 

[invst4profit]

As far as the water bill is concerned I would call the municipality, mention the work your neiborough did, and ask them to investigate. The rest is up to how you want to deal with the neiborough.

 

[willy]

Water meters are located inside the premises, so it`s unlikely that he`s stealing water from you. More probably a dripping tap or slow leak somewhere.

 

[Goodstuff]

If possible, turn off your water for a few days and see if he complains to the city about not having water.

There may be a way to turn off the water to that one line and still have water in your place.

I had this problem with a condo a few years ago. I suspected that someone was using the outside water tap to water their plants, as my bill went up in the summer even though nothing at my condo ever changed.

Lo and behold, once I turned off the water the person in the next condo came over and started asking about the tap and who it belonged to, etc. I told her it was mine and that I had turned it off. She then confessed that she had been using it to water her plants and "had no idea it was yours!"
Then she asked if I would be so kind as to turn it back on. I refused, then she gave me a sob story about how she was a lone widower and this was her only source of enjoyment, etc. but never offered to pay any of the increase in water fees, even after I explained it all to her and showed her the bills. Needless to say, she discovered that it was possible to use a water spout/bucket whatever those things are called. Problem solved.

 

[housedoc]

Regarding the water.
Your bill is a reflection of how much water goes through your meter, and the water/sewage rate. Even if he tapped into your line, it would be before your meter. Likely usage and rate has increased. Check for obvious waste (taps, toilets, gardens, leaks, teenagers showering)

As for the possible wall damage, a year(?) later, it`s unlikely he`ll assume responsibility unless the damage is obviously from the bobcat. If he does, you`re entitled to fix, he pays. According to Judge Judy, even if he`s a contractor and wants to fix it himself you have a right to your choice of who repairs it.

 

[BrianPersaud]

Are you saying it was possible he was connecting the hose to your house?

You could speak to him and `sell` him on paying the difference.

The city will ask you to pay the bill as you are financially responsible - you have no recourse with them.

You could take him to small claims court...i`d get a consultation..probably wouldn`t be worth it because you don`t have enough proof and the judge would recommend that you do nothing and you are out the filing fees.

For your damage, take detailed records as if you were going to sue him for fixing it, get quotes and you might want to consider choosing the contractor yourself to fix it. Call your home insurance company as well.

 

[Nir]

Thank You Everyone for the great advice!

I will contact the city first.

I do not have proof he connected his system to mine (is there a way to find out for sure for less than say $500? hopefully the city can...) nor that he damaged my wall. However, it looks like the wall damage was 99% done by him but the water connection - I am still not sure about/how to find out for sure(?)

I will keep you guys updated on how the investigation goes..

Cheers,
Neil

 

[housingrental]

Neil - Good luck. I have no idea re theft but the you should first check to see if any toilets are leaking into themselves. This can run up huge bills and be hard to notice. Get a plumber in- for the $65 he can probably check every toilet etc..

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Jul 1 2009, 10:44 AM) Neil - Good luck. I have no idea re theft but the you should first check to see if any toilets are leaking into themselves. This can run up huge bills and be hard to notice. Get a plumber in- for the $65 he can probably check every toilet etc..

Thanks Adam. Another Great advice before suspecting our great neighbors on Canada Day

 

[jwilbrin]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Jul 1 2009, 11:44 AM) Neil - Good luck. I have no idea re theft but the you should first check to see if any toilets are leaking into themselves. This can run up huge bills and be hard to notice. Get a plumber in- for the $65 he can probably check every toilet etc..

You can save yourself the cost of the plumber by doing this quick and easy do it yourself test:

Put several drops of food coloring into the tank. DO NOT flush the toilet.

Wait 15 minutes then check the water in the toilet bowl. If it has changed color your toilet is leaking.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (jwilbrin @ Jul 1 2009, 03:26 PM) You can save yourself the cost of the plumber by doing this quick and easy do it yourself test:

Put several drops of food coloring into the tank. DO NOT flush the toilet.

Wait 15 minutes then check the water in the toilet bowl. If it has changed color your toilet is leaking.

Nice one! Thanks.

 

[terri]

QUOTE (investmart @ Jun 30 2009, 05:20 PM) Hi Everyone,

I have 2 issues to resolve and would appreciate any advice from other investors:

1. My water bill has doubled based on a new annual reading done by the city. This happened after a neighbor who owns the home beside my 3-Plex, did some work on his basement. He worked on my lot – the area between our properties with my verbal permission I guess. He rents his basement and uses main floor to give sports lessons I think.

I don`t want to be too suspicious but is there even a chance this guy connected his rented basement`s water system to mine!?

Has anyone ever had to investigate something like that? How do you start?

Basically, what he did is dug with a bobcat last summer while I was not there. He started working there after mentioning something about it to me when he once saw me there a few weeks earlier.

I guess he thought I said OK, in reality I wasn`t sure what exactly he was going to do (and still not sure what exactly he did there). However, he did clearly explain it is related to a basement leakage he has had, so he needed access to his external wall – the one facing my property. Also, when done he laid his hose opening on my property, again on the area between our properties where the hose came out from the ground, close to my backyard. I guess that`s ok (is it?) because yes, that space happened to belong to me but really it is the area between our buildings.

2. While working there with his bobcat he apparently damaged my external wall a little bit. One of the blocks is going inwards now. Not sure how significant the damage is just by looking at it and how to address this with him(?). I guess ideally, I fix, he pays(?) but unfortunately he might not admit he did it.>
I have not contacted him yet about any of the above and would appreciate any advice before I do.

Thanks,
Neil


Neil,
how old is the house in question?

this may be very different from your situation, but with older houses sometimes the water line for one is on another property.

For instance, in my personal residence, circa 1885, I had a wet spot in the basement concrete, when we dug down we found that there was an underground water pipe that had a small hole in it. We tried to shut the water off @ the house but it didn`t stop. We then called the city out to shut of the water main so that we could repair it and it turned out that it wasn`t even my water line at all it was my neighbours water line. His water line went under the middle of my house, about 1/2 way through, before entering his property.

I`m sure that your property is not as old as mine and therefore doesn`t have these "unusual" issues, but I thought I would throw it out there.

T.

 

[Goodstuff]

I wonder if it would be possible to somehow add food colouring to your water at the source.

This would be an excellent and simple way of knowing if any of your water is ending up at the neighbour`s place.

 

[housedoc]

QUOTE (terri @ Jul 1 2009, 09:17 PM) Neil, how old is the house in question?

this may be very different from your situation, but with older houses sometimes the water line for one is on another property.

For instance, in my personal residence, circa 1885, I had a wet spot in the basement concrete, when we dug down we found that there was an underground water pipe that had a small hole in it. We tried to shut the water off @ the house but it didn`t stop. We then called the city out to shut of the water main so that we could repair it and it turned out that it wasn`t even my water line at all it was my neighbours water line. His water line went under the middle of my house, about 1/2 way through, before entering his property.

I`m sure that your property is not as old as mine and therefore doesn`t have these "unusual" issues, but I thought I would throw it out there.

T.

Terri,
That sounds exactly like MY old basement!

Neil,
To check your system, make sure that all water can be turned off in the building. Then check your water meter. Is it running? Check back after a couple of minutes to see if the reading has changed.

 

[Nir]

Terry, Bingo! the property will become a supercentenarian (110 yrs old) next year. it`s the oldest property I have. it`s in Orillia by the way.

Housedoc and Goodstuff, your names make more sense now such creative ideas! thanks.

I feel I have enough great ideas and will update you guys after I visit the property and the city.. might take a few weeks as i see it as important but not urgent..

Regards,
Neil