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Financing Options / Hard Money Lender

nubiwan

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I have a line on a home that is in rough shape. Similar aged homes and size (in better shape) would fetch $150-175 K in this very marketable small seaside town.

Owner has moved out of province. They had the home listed 12 months ago for $99K. Bit scary for most people at that price. Told me on the phone he`d take $71K. I would have offered more if he hadn`t said that. Lesson #1 -First to mention a dollar amount leaves money on the table.

Anyway, I figure the house would neeed $25-30K of upgrading to make it sparkle. I estimate an honest resell value for a pretty 1500 square foot home in that location is $150K, so there is decent upside, even if my estimate is inflated.

I personally have around $55K on a HLOC that I plan to use for the renos, down payment closing costs etc.

Would like to know how I might structure a hold back with the vendor. They might hold cash but I have not asked them. I`d prefer to get some financing from a hard money lender of broker, and be willing to pay for that service, rather than keep the owner tangled up in the deal. Perhaps owner financing is easier than I think.

My situation is that I am unemployed at present, but have income coming from 4 rental units in the $36K per annum region. I`ve renovated all of my 4 units with my own money and resources (namely a $140 HLOC off my principal residence). I am comfortable in the trades and like to think my houses are different than your normal rental units.

I bought one of my houses outright on my HLOC. I could sell it (for $120-140K or a 50-70K profit) to fund this deal, but it is providing me a decent cashflow, so I`d like to keep it. I thought an alternative might be to use the same house as collateral to bridge the 3-6 months financing required to fix up this new opportunity and flip it. Can I do that if I bought it on a HLOC? Or is that considered a lien on the property?

Anyone got any ideas on financing options either A) with the vendor C) with a 3rd party ?

Anyone interested in helping me finance with the deal?

Should point out that I am considering asking a friend (with deep pockets) or family member (with properties) to cosign a short term or open mortgage for the $70K.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Any questions fire away. Not sure I am able to PM or recieve PM`s at this point in time on the forum.

Tks
Tony
 
QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 10:42 AM) ... Told me on the phone he`d take $71K. ...
Anyway, I figure the house would neeed $25-30K of upgrading to make it sparkle. ..

I personally have around $55K on a HLOC that I plan to use for the renos, down payment closing costs etc...
Talk to Peter Kinch or a hard money lender or any MIC .. perfect for a MIC @ 14% plus 3% commitment fee @ 75% LTV or about 50K ..

so 21K by yourself .. 50K from hard money lender !

or: offer seller 30K cash now .. and 50k in 6 months .. secured by a 1st VTB mortgage !

Get your ducks in a row before you write offers ! i.e. have access to money and relations before you look for deals !!

You need (access to) money to buy real estate !!!!!

Also read this here:

5 ways to make money http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-3347-5_ways_to_make_money.html

How to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html
 
QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Oct 9 2009, 03:32 PM) Talk to Peter Kinch or a hard money lender or any MIC .. perfect for a MIC @ 14% plus 3% commitment fee @ 75% LTV or about 50K ..

so 21K by yourself .. 50K from hard money lender !

or: offer seller 30K cash now .. and 50k in 6 months .. secured by a 1st VTB mortgage !

Get your ducks in a row before you write offers ! i.e. have access to money and relations before you look for deals !!

You need (access to) money to buy real estate !!!!!

Also read this here:

5 ways to make money http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-3347-5_ways_to_make_money.html

How to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html


Sorry Thomas, what is a MIC? Not familiar with the term. If my buy price is $70K, tax assessed price is $80K, 3rd party appraisal around $95K, and future FMV is around $150K, then does this change the numbers for the MIC financing you gave me above?

How do I structure the deal with the owner financing? I take ownership, give him $30K down and a promissory note to pay $50K in 6 months. Who takes care of writing up the terms of the VTB morgage? Is there a standard form / note I can use? What wording needs to be included? Do sellers ever take the VTB without a monthly payment? Or, is that dreaming? Sorry, just never asked for VTB. Not yet!


Thanks again

Tony
 
QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) Sorry Thomas, what is a MIC?
a MIC is a Mortgage Investment Corporation, a corporation that by law must invest 90% or more of its money in mortgages. Many do these kind of deals.

Talk to 2 or 3 of them. One is run by Peter Kinch. Start with him. Two large ones in W-Canada are CareVest (our of Calgary) and Fisgard (our of Vancouver/Victoria). Most charge a 10 - 22% interest rate per year depending on risk and loan-to-value (LTV) plus a 2-6% upfront fee independent of length. Plus you pay for all their legal fees and their inspection costs, like a trip or 2 to the property, appraisals, engineering reports ..

QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) If my buy price is $70K, tax assessed price is $80K, 3rd party appraisal around $95K, and future FMV is around $150K, then does this change the numbers for the MIC financing you gave me above?
Yes as they can lend you as much as they feel comfortable, although most will not go over 75% to 80% of purchase price unless add`l security can be obtained. This is called cross-colaterization.

They may advance more money as the property gets improved and re-appraised later !

QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) How do I structure the deal with the owner financing? I take ownership, give him $30K down and a promissory note to pay $50K in 6 months.
yes, but the promissory note would be secured by a mortgage usually.
QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) Who takes care of writing up the terms of the VTB morgage?

You, if you know what you are doing. Or a lawyer.

QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) Is there a standard form / note I can use? What wording needs to be included?

yes, standard purchase agreement with appendix for mortgage terms like: open, payable in 12 months, no monthly payments, interest is accrued and paid as a balloon on discharge ..

QUOTE (nubiwan @ Oct 9 2009, 03:16 PM) Do sellers ever take the VTB without a monthly payment?

yes they do. Ask. Will you take $50,000 at 12% paid monthly or will you take $60,000 paid no later than 9 months after closing, then 12% annually paid monthly? [I`d take the 2nd option as a seller if I am confident that you can delievr in 6 month or so ..]

Whatever you can agree on. Could be 0% for a year, then 4%, then 18% in year 3 .. whatever the buyer and seller agree on and the human mind can create is OK !

We just bought a large building in Abbotsford, BC with a 5 year 4% mortgage behind a 72% first CMHC insured mortgage. We usually ask any seller to take a VTB. Not all will give you one .. but manyo do .. ASK !
 
[quote name=`thomasbeyer2000` date=`Oct 9 2009, 04:40 PM` post=`67740`]
a MIC is a Mortgage Investment Corporation, a corporation that by law must invest 90% or more of its money in mortgages. Many do these kind of deals.

Aside from Peter Kinch group, is/are there MIC`s in Toronto/Ontario?
 
If the seller is just a regular joe, not a sophisticated investor, and has sat on this place for a year this is probably a far easier sale than it is being made out to be.
Talk to the guy one on one and find out if he is open to a VTB. If so ask him to tell you the conditions he may consider fair.
I would probably offer him 20% down with the remainder due in 12 months 5-7% interest payable at the end.
Have a lawyer draw up the mortgage agreement.

If this is just a regular homeowner he will jump at a 7% return in today`s economy and will be relieved to be out from under this place that is costing him money every month.

Keep it simple.
 
QUOTE (invst4profit @ Oct 10 2009, 11:37 AM) If the seller is just a regular joe, not a sophisticated investor, and has sat on this place for a year this is probably a far easier sale than it is being made out to be.
Talk to the guy one on one and find out if he is open to a VTB. If so ask him to tell you the conditions he may consider fair.
I would probably offer him 20% down with the remainder due in 12 months 5-7% interest payable at the end.
Have a lawyer draw up the mortgage agreement.

If this is just a regular homeowner he will jump at a 7% return in today`s economy and will be relieved to be out from under this place that is costing him money every month.

Keep it simple.

Do you mind spelling that out for me invst4profit? I am a pretty conventional guy here, other than actually digging up these deals by myself. How might this be structured financially? Can you give me a couple of examples. Perhaps I`ll do a search on the board.

My questions surround ownership and closing in this situation? Vendor still has to pay his mortage correct? Will 2 mortgages exist? His original and our new agreement? I assume he keeps his house ownership till I am done. Seems complicated. Just trying to understand.


Tks
Tony
 
In a VTB situation you own the property he is the bank holding the mortgage.
This works best if the present owner does not have a mortgage on the property or your down payment is enough to pay off what is remaining on his existing mortgage.
If he does have a mortgage remaining he will need to find a way to pay it off with other money or use a HELOC to clear it.
Considering he has held this place for a year I would assume he does not have much of a mortgage if any on the property.

My best advice is to call him direct tell him you are interested and get him talking. Test the water by explaining your situation and broach the subject of the VTB to see if he is in a financial position to make it possible. If he is not interested you will find that out very quickly then you may have to convince him it is his best option considering he is unable to sell the place.
This business is not rocket science it`s just numbers.

You will need to hone your negotiating skills. That is the art of the sale.
 
Talk to your Lawyer. Sometimes they have Estate money that they are eager to loan.

Doug
 
QUOTE (dplummer @ Oct 12 2009, 10:30 AM) Talk to your Lawyer. Sometimes they have Estate money that they are eager to loan.

Doug

My lawyer would loan me someone else`s estate money? You serious? Please explain how that happens. First I heard of that.
 
Lawyers will handle the financial affairs of Estates. Some are deceased others are elderly. They will try to ensure a profitable return for their Estate Clients to cover their fess for looking after the Estate. Talk to your lawyer & ask if they have funds available. Your Lawyer can direct you where to find the money .

Doug
 
QUOTE Talk to your Lawyer. Sometimes they have Estate money that they are eager to loan.
I agree to talking to your lawyer. You can get an idea or find a solution on how you`ll do this. Lawyers do know somethings.

MIC is a Mortgage Investment Corporation, a corporation that by law must invest 90% or more of its money in mortgages. Many do these kind of deals.





kanne11
Simulation prêt
 
Tony,

Where is this property. I represent private lenders from Hamilton, Toronto and Ontario. If your property is in this area maybe we could help. Feel free to give me a call.
 
QUOTE (rforgiel @ Oct 14 2009, 08:28 AM) Tony,

Where is this property. I represent private lenders from Hamilton, Toronto and Ontario. If your property is in this area maybe we could help. Feel free to give me a call.


Unfortunately, it is located in Newfoundland.
 
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