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Help! How to deal with single mom tenants with troubled teenage

oligu

oligu

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Oct 10, 2007
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Dear friends,

I am going to be the new owner of a small apartment building in Hamilton next week. The location is a little bit north of Main St. with a supermarket right behind the building There are two apartments each has a single mother with troubled teenager son who disturbs the neighbours greatly and may even involve with drugs. How to get rid of them asap tactically? Can we ask them to leave right after we become the new owner? We are new to this kind of situation and looking forward to your advise. Thank you in advance for your help!

Oliver
(A rein member will be in April)
 
Hi Oliver,

Our first purchase was a multi-plex with challenging tenants. What a learning curve! I firmly advise all new investors to stay away from multi-plexes (duplexes and larger) because of just these issues.

I have bad news for you. If you intend to evict these tenants, you have a lot of work ahead. In Ontario you need solid, documented and convincing evidence to evict. Tenants can`t be evicted because they are annoying. Illegal behaviour is the responsibility of the police and even law-breakers are allowed to have a home.

The easiest thing is to offer them cash to move. If they take it, great. Otherwise, you need to get evidence to take to the Landlord & Tenant Board (formerly called Tribunal). The main purpose of the Board is to resolve disputes and find a way for landlords and tenants to work together. If the moms don`t pay rent you will have grounds for eviction. All other issues are subject to the discretion of the Board member in charge of the hearing.

If you intend to proceed, hire a good paralegal or lawyer and start your documentation. Also, read over the information on the Landlord Tenant Board website.

http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/index.html

Our tenants were involved in a LOT of illegal behaviour. The police were there daily. The neighbours went crazy. Heck, these guys were urinating off the balconies! There is a lot more to this story, but I`ll stop here. It took us 2 months to get a hearing and the tribunal then gave them 2 months more to get out. That was 4 months of no rent plus a few more months renovating the place and getting new tenants.

Welcome to the never-boring world of landlording!

Carla
 
QUOTE (CarlaJohnson @ Mar 30 2008, 09:40 AM) Hi Oliver,

Our first purchase was a multi-plex with challenging tenants. What a learning curve! I firmly advise all new investors to stay away from multi-plexes (duplexes and larger) because of just these issues.

I have bad news for you. If you intend to evict these tenants, you have a lot of work ahead. In Ontario you need solid, documented and convincing evidence to evict. Tenants can`t be evicted because they are annoying. Illegal behaviour is the responsibility of the police and even law-breakers are allowed to have a home.

The easiest thing is to offer them cash to move. If they take it, great. Otherwise, you need to get evidence to take to the Landlord & Tenant Board (formerly called Tribunal). The main purpose of the Board is to resolve disputes and find a way for landlords and tenants to work together. If the moms don`t pay rent you will have grounds for eviction. All other issues are subject to the discretion of the Board member in charge of the hearing.

If you intend to proceed, hire a good paralegal or lawyer and start your documentation. Also, read over the information on the Landlord Tenant Board website.

http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/index.html

Our tenants were involved in a LOT of illegal behaviour. The police were there daily. The neighbours went crazy. Heck, these guys were urinating off the balconies! There is a lot more to this story, but I`ll stop here. It took us 2 months to get a hearing and the tribunal then gave them 2 months more to get out. That was 4 months of no rent plus a few more months renovating the place and getting new tenants.

Welcome to the never-boring world of landlording!

Carla
 
Hi Carla,

Thank you very much for your information. From what I heard, they pay their rents. So it would be hard to use rent payment to evict them. From your previous experience, do you think they are dangerous to deal with? Did you hire a property management company to communicate with your problem tenants or you did it on your own? May I call you to talk about it?

Thanks Carla!

Oliver
 
Hi Oliver,

Feel free to send me a message here on REINSpace. Yes, we decided to hire a property manager the first day we viewed the property. We are so glad we did. Many renters know how to navigate the system a lot better than new landlords. I think you would be wise to start off with your tenants on a professional tone. There`s not much else you can do at this point.

Carla
 
I think you can do major renovation and use this as a ground to terminate lease agreement with 60 days notice. Also wait until the lease runs out and do not renew it.
Check with the Board as rules change from time to time.
Whatever you decide to do be firm and follow the process, do not give in and get fooled by promises. It WILL take time and money, but ultimately it is your property and YOU make the decisions not others.
Good luck,
Todor
 
Friends of ours tried to get rid of a troubling tenant by renovating, but the tenant knew the law. Our friends had to provide accomodation for him during the renovations AND the tenant was allowed to move back into his improved unit for the same rent as before.

If you choose to purchase a place with tenants in place, you are also choosing to acquire the tenants.

Document everything as carefully and detailed as possible. Get good legal advise and proceed when and where you can. Always behave professionally with your tenants. If you step outside the law, it can bite you severely should you gather a case to take to the Board.

Good luck.
 
Hi my friends, thank you all for your advise. I feel at home here.

Hi Carla, Yes, we do plan to hire a property management company which is located not far from our property. We are going to meet them in a day or two. In your case before, were you still actively involved after you hired the PM or you turned everything to PM to handle? Anything we should be aware of and mention to PM when signing a contract with them?

Thanks a lot Carla!

Oliver
 
A good property manager will really help you along the learning curve. Since you are new to this and your PM probably has experience, let them take over as much as possible. Tell them your concerns and your goals for the property, then stand back and keep watch.

Each landlord has a different relationship with each PM. Some landlords like to be involved in the details and they prefer a PM who doesn`t act without their direction. We like to be hands off. We have not met any of our present tenants. We told our PM that anything under $200 was her decision. Beyond that we are consulted.

When signing the contract with your PM, I suggest you take a good look over their lease agreement to make sure it is thorough. Our property manager has a 3-page, double-sided, legal sized agreement that she uses for our properties and we think it`s great. Ask them how they screen new tenants. Find out how they will handle the tenants that concern you. Arrange a time to meet each tenant to introduce yourself and the new PM. Watch how your PM interacts with the tenants. When our PM met our zany tenants, she just took charge of everything smoothly and professionally. She didn`t blink or quiver. I knew then that we were in good hands.

Last, but not least, always, always, always listen to your gut. Your PM will relieve you of all the daily kookiness that comes with this business, but the big decisions are in your hands. Your PM is a reflection of you. You are the one who is ultimately responsible for running your business - especially if you ever face the Board.

Take care,

Carla
 
]QUOTE I think you can do major renovation and use this as a ground to terminate lease agreement with 60 days notice. Also wait until the lease runs out and do not renew it.
Check with the Board as rules change from time to time.
Be very careful that you understand the rules in Ontario before doing this

The law in Ontario states that you need to give 120 days notice to get vacant possession of a property in order to renovate,
the renovations must be extensive enough to warrant vacancy and that a building permit is required,
you have to wait until the fixed term of the lease agreement runs out,
AND...the tenants have first right of refusal to move back in after the renovations are complete.

AND, IF THEY DO MOVE BACK IN......the rent can only be increased above the yearly guideline by 1/2 of that year`s guideline, for instance the guideline for 2008 is 1.4%, so an additional .07%. so if the rent is currently $1000, you could raise the rent a max. $21 after renovation, but you would need to apply to the board for the additional increase.
 
After having just had a discussion with Landlords and Tenants in Edmonton, it should be noted that if you use "renovations" as the reason for eviction, you have to give a full year`s notice! If the vendor has not given a proper reason for terminating the lease, (ie selling the property!) there is the possibility that the the vender could be fined! I was told that although the vender had given notice, I had to regive the notice to the tenants to fall within the rules. This is because I had not asked for a "vacant possesion". However, section 4.1 in the real estate contract that we use reads that unless otherwise stated, the contract implies a vacant possesion. the laws definitely favour the tenants. So, make sure you get the right people into your suites!! Regards, Tim
 
Woo, I`ve learned a lot from this discussion. We are going to meet the PM tomorrow. I feel I am well prepared. Thanks Carla for your advice.

Best wishes to you all!

Oliver
 
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