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Steps to gather a foreclosure list in Canada in response to Russell Westcott request

antaynguy

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REIN Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
104
Hi everyone,

Russell has requested that I should outline the steps to gather the foreclosure list. In response to his request, I have thought about it long and hard. The truth is, there are real estate companies out there that are depended on this well guarded secret to survive. Their whole business are solely dependent on it. As much as I would like to share this knowledge with you all, I would be ruining their business. I am pretty sure that this knowledge will be found out in time. Even so, the effort and cost are extensive. The cost alone will deter many even if they know how.

What I can tell you is that it would cost you any between $4000 to $6000 to gather all the information per month just for Calgary alone and that`s without counting on the labor. If you don`t believe me, you can always ask other well known people who are expert in this arena.

If you look at it in perspective, if you make just one deal per month from it, it may not seem too bad. Perhaps, someone would be willing to JV with me for the cost of getting the list. Anyways, I just thought I post this to thank Russell for his response to my question about his expired listing.

Antay
 

tonypeters

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Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
348
Antay, Great feedback for our fellow REIN members! I would like to take this opportunity to add my two cents worth. Personally, I made the decision NOT to travel down the "foreclosure" path.

Here are some of the reasons WHY...

1. There are many realtors advertising the fact they ALL have a "foreclosure list", but the fact is...they DON`T!
I have NEVER once received a copy from a realtor when I requested one! Fact is, some Realtors will use this marketing strategy "just to get the phone to ring". How do you think I know this? Because I had a Realtor tell me that when I challenged her on her "so called" list.

2. How far down the (next on the list) totem pole do you think you really are?

3. How old is the information when you FINALLY receive it? In most cases, it`s already too late!

Antay is correct.
There are companies out there that specialize in this area of real estate, and they are typically hooked-up with the lawyers that represent the banks and the lending institutions.

Fact is:
there are many great buying opportunities out there, so WHY would you want to step into an arena that has a TON of COMPETITION!

Tony`s TIP:
The "pre-foreclosure" and "creative terms" market is a LOT more fun and EXTREMELY rewarding!

WHY?
Because I can help people overcome their problems and make some money in the process. Plus I can purchase houses WITHOUT using any of my OWN CASH or qualifying at some BANK for a mortgage!

Just my two cents worth!



QUOTE (antay @ Nov 3 2009, 10:55 AM) Hi everyone,

Russell has requested that I should outline the steps to gather the foreclosure list. In response to his request, I have thought about it long and hard. The truth is, there are real estate companies out there that are depended on this well guarded secret to survive. Their whole business are solely dependent on it. As much as I would like to share this knowledge with you all, I would be ruining their business. I am pretty sure that this knowledge will be found out in time. Even so, the effort and cost are extensive. The cost alone will deter many even if they know how.

What I can tell you is that it would cost you any between $4000 to $6000 to gather all the information per month just for Calgary alone and that`s without counting on the labor. If you don`t believe me, you can always ask other well known people who are expert in this arena.

If you look at it in perspective, if you make just one deal per month from it, it may not seem too bad. Perhaps, someone would be willing to JV with me for the cost of getting the list. Anyways, I just thought I post this to thank Russell for his response to my question about his expired listing.

Antay
 

DineenJJ

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Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
124
QUOTE (tonypeters @ Nov 3 2009, 12:44 PM)
1. There are many realtors advertising the fact they ALL have a "foreclosure list", but the fact is...they DON`T!
I have NEVER once received a copy from a realtor when I requested one! Fact is, some Realtors will use this marketing strategy "just to get the phone to ring". How do you think I know this? Because I had a Realtor tell me that when I challenged her on her "so called" list.

I called a realtor a few days ago regarding an ad that he put out saying he has a list of foreclosures and he has yet to send me that list... most likely he does not have one anyway.
 

antaynguy

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REIN Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
104
Thanks for your reply Tony.

I am not an expert in foreclosure by any stretch nor do I claim to be. The best person to talk to are lawyers who specifically deals with the matter.

What I do know however is that there are 3 stages of foreclosure. Once you missed 2 or 3 mortgage payments, the mortgage company will start the forclosure process by filing a statement of claim at the court and serve the owner of the home. At this point, the foreclosure process has started. The owner is in foreclosure. This is the first stage of foreclosure which a lot of people mislabled this as "pre-foreclosure". The owner of the property may apply for remption. The length of time depends on whether the owners has equity in the house or whether it is a rental. The second stage of foreclosure is when the mortgage company apply for an "Order for Sale" forcing the owner to sell their house so that the mortage company reclaim their money. This is typically listed with an listing Agent on MLS, typically term "Judicial Sale". If this process failed to get the house sold, the third stage kicks in where the mortgage company will complete the forclosure process and take over the property and transfer title into the mortgage company, hence the term "bank owned".

I hope my two cent worth of knowledge is of value. If I am wrong please correct for the benefit of the readers.

Antay

PS: Just to clarify, the foreclosure list I mentioned in my original post which is of most valuable to Ron`s method is the first stage of foreclosure and not the one that is listed on the MLS by the listing agents. The listing agents are selected during the Judicial Sale stage and appointed by the court.
 

RedlineBrett

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Oct 24, 2007
Messages
2,289
QUOTE (antay @ Nov 3 2009, 11:55 AM) What I can tell you is that it would cost you any between $4000 to $6000 to gather all the information per month just for Calgary alone and that`s without counting on the labor. If you don`t believe me, you can always ask other well known people who are expert in this arena.
Well I used to pay someone (after doing it myself for two years) to go down to the courthouse and pull foreclosure leads every week. I tracked every lead and direct mailed them sometimes 4x each. Cost me on average $1000/month all in.

I`ll do all the REIN quickturn people a huge favor and break it down for you. Someday when you need a realtor, property manager or renovation think of me

DISCLAIMER 1. USE THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK. THIS POST DOES NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE OR ADVICE ON HOW TO MAKE MONEY IN FORECLOSURES.

Remember I also buy Calgary assignments! and I JV on flips.. you bring the deal I get the money out!


Two words. "Business Prospects". Call Bruce or Doug at 403-275-2232. You can buy the list for northern or southern Alberta. Adds for this list are all over the courthouse so this is nothing new. These guys grab every single lawsuit filed in Alberta every week and mail out a list for people to use however they like.

After that you need to follow this process:

1. Find the action numbers where the plaintiff is a bank and the type of action is either one of SCF (statement of claim foreclosure) or ONOS (Order NISI Order for sale). There are other types of actions for foreclosures but these ones are the best as they generally have some equity in them.

2. Write down the action numbers. There could be dozens of SCF and ONOS leads every week. You will need a fast way to scan the business prospects PDF and track the action numbers because many defendants redeem themselves and if you can`t track this you will be mailing to someone that has solved their own problem. I used an internal system of spreadsheets but it`s my belief everyone needs their own system for how they work as it will be very unlikely that anyone will make one for this purpose.

3. Call the Court of Queen`s Bench. Ask for the documents and filings department and when you get a hold of someone there ask for a fax number where you can send your list into. Fax in the action numbers you want to view.

4. The COQB will tell you when your files are ready for viewing. It is almost always same-day unless you have 50+ to look through. Get a pen and paper together as you cannot take documents with you and photocopies are $1/page. When I was at my peak I could look through 20 an hour no more.

5. Get in your car and drive down to the COQB. Pay for max parking


6. Go to the documents and filings wicket and tell them you are the person that faxed in the request to view the huge stack of files they have on that tray over there (they will be expecting you). It costs $10 for every file.

7. Open up each foreclosure file. You are looking for the following information off each one: Address, sale date, appraised value, forced sale value, liens on title, defendants address for service and lawfirm administering the case on behalf of the bank. You will get this information from various pages in the Order NISI document but the appraisal and a copy of title should be in there too.

8. Get this data for every lead. MANY leads will be garbage because there is no equity. There is no way to tell how much equity there is in a lead without going to the courthouse to get the address of the property and doing the math between the appraised value and the sum of all the liens on title.
9. Once you have a QUALIFIED lead you can start your direct mail campaign to the address the defendant was served at.

10. If you can`t get a hold of the seller and the sale date is fast approaching call the lawfirm representing the bank and see how they plan on marketing the property once the redemption period expires and they have authorization to solicit for tenders.

DISCLAIMER 2. There will be hundreds of dead leads with no equity, mortgage fraud and countless other reasons. With the vast array of HELOC and second mortgage options the deals with 100+k of equity are few and far between.

But they are out there. You really need to commit to this to make it work.. if you don`t update your database every week you will miss those plaintifs that have their case "discontinued". After a while you will see how the system works and get more confident.

I didn`t do the Ron Legrand thing but by the sounds of it you all know what to do once you have a lead.

But remember... once you have a contract if you don`t want to do the rest..

I also buy Calgary assignments! and I JV on flips..

I believe there are people that sell these formatted lists too. I never trusted them because there is no way to know they aren`t skimming the best leads off the top and selling off the garbage ones.

Happy hunting.
 

antaynguy

0
REIN Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
104
Thanks Brett,

I am glad that you have demystified the process. Brett is correct in his steps, only disagreement with him on the cost. If you pull 400 foreclosure at $10 each that would equate to $4000.00. If you need to pull title for those that have only legal description that would cost on top.

SCF - stands for state of claim foreclosure which is the first stage of foreclosure. It does not contain much useful information, but will at least give you a legal description which you can pull title to get the municiple address. This code means they have some equity.

ONOS - is the second stage which you will find have most useful information. It will contains an appraisal for the property so you have the market value for the house and the "forced sale" value which is usually 10% off the market price. "Good to know if you ever going to make an offer with the listing agent."

SCFJ - this is the first step to foreclosure but this means there is little or no equity, possible good candidate for shortsale if it has second mortgage.

Antay
 

JohnSoucie

0
REIN Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
114
QUOTE (tonypeters @ Nov 3 2009, 02:44 PM) Antay, Great feedback for our fellow REIN members! I would like to take this opportunity to add my two cents worth. Personally, I made the decision NOT to travel down the "foreclosure" path.

Here are some of the reasons WHY...

1. There are many realtors advertising the fact they ALL have a "foreclosure list", but the fact is...they DON`T!
I have NEVER once received a copy from a realtor when I requested one! Fact is, some Realtors will use this marketing strategy "just to get the phone to ring". How do you think I know this? Because I had a Realtor tell me that when I challenged her on her "so called" list.

2. How far down the (next on the list) totem pole do you think you really are?

3. How old is the information when you FINALLY receive it? In most cases, it`s already too late!

Antay is correct.
There are companies out there that specialize in this area of real estate, and they are typically hooked-up with the lawyers that represent the banks and the lending institutions.

Fact is:
there are many great buying opportunities out there, so WHY would you want to step into an arena that has a TON of COMPETITION!

Tony`s TIP:
The "pre-foreclosure" and "creative terms" market is a LOT more fun and EXTREMELY rewarding!

WHY?
Because I can help people overcome their problems and make some money in the process. Plus I can purchase houses WITHOUT using any of my OWN CASH or qualifying at some BANK for a mortgage!

Just my two cents worth!


Tony;

Another awesome post as usual. Excuse this newbies ignorance but can you elaborate on how you specifically target pre-foreclosures, and is it an Alberta only thing?....(This Ontarian is leaning to ask that question now!). Or do you just identify the prospect as being in that situation after you talk to them to discover their motivation?

Thanks
John
 
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