Sticky Situation

[spearcy]

I`m looking for advice on how to deal with a situation.

I purchased new appliances for my duplex (owner occupied) when I took possession this summer. When the tenants moved in on Sept 5th though, we discovered the new range in their unit is completely non-functional. I called Sears and scheduled a service call for the earliest opportunity--Sept 11th. The repairman diagnosed the problem, ordered a replacement part, and told me to call Sears to schedule a follow-up appointment. I booked the earliest appointment I could get after the part would be in, which was Sept 22nd. The second repairman came and, instead of installing the replacement part, re-diagnosed the problem and told the tenants the problem was with the electrical. He refused to even try installing the replacement part, because in his opinion there was absolutely nothing wrong with the range. This diagnosis doesn`t make sense for a number of reasons, but I won`t get into the details. Anyway, I now have a 3rd repairman coming tomorrow, Sept 26th, to confirm the actual problem and to hopefully fix the range.

In the meantime, I have been giving the tenants (a group of students) access to my kitchen so they can use my stove. At first I just gave them access when I was home, but seeing how long this has been dragging out, I now leave the door to my unit propped open so they can use the stove at any time.

Now one of the students` fathers is hassling me that I`m failing in my obligations as a landlord and I should be discounting their rent for this inconvenience. I feel like I have been doing everything in my power to get the stove fixed promptly and bending over backwards to ensure they are not inconvenienced by this problem.

Thoughts?

 

[housingrental]

Move your (working) oven into their unit
You take the non-working one and get it fixed
OR
Do same and get yourself a hot plate (confirm with insurance company) and toaster oven until fixed

 

[Mecheng]

QUOTE (spearcy @ Sep 26 2010, 11:48 AM) I`m looking for advice on how to deal with a situation.

I purchased new appliances for my duplex (owner occupied) when I took possession this summer. When the tenants moved in on Sept 5th though, we discovered the new range in their unit is completely non-functional. I called Sears and scheduled a service call for the earliest opportunity--Sept 11th. The repairman diagnosed the problem, ordered a replacement part, and told me to call Sears to schedule a follow-up appointment. I booked the earliest appointment I could get after the part would be in, which was Sept 22nd. The second repairman came and, instead of installing the replacement part, re-diagnosed the problem and told the tenants the problem was with the electrical. He refused to even try installing the replacement part, because in his opinion there was absolutely nothing wrong with the range. This diagnosis doesn`t make sense for a number of reasons, but I won`t get into the details. Anyway, I now have a 3rd repairman coming tomorrow, Sept 26th, to confirm the actual problem and to hopefully fix the range.

In the meantime, I have been giving the tenants (a group of students) access to my kitchen so they can use my stove. At first I just gave them access when I was home, but seeing how long this has been dragging out, I now leave the door to my unit propped open so they can use the stove at any time.

Now one of the students` fathers is hassling me that I`m failing in my obligations as a landlord and I should be discounting their rent for this inconvenience. I feel like I have been doing everything in my power to get the stove fixed promptly and bending over backwards to ensure they are not inconvenienced by this problem.

Thoughts?
Maintenance and repairs are a fact of life and it is always an inconvenience to deal with but must be done.

Example is when you need repairs to your car its always nice to get a loner car so you don`t have to pay out of pocket expense to rent one on your own. However even with the rental some people will say, cool I get to drive a different car for a week and others will say its so inconvenient to not have my own car. Inconvenience is in the eye of the beholder, what annoys some will roll off other backs.

Surely you can see how your tenants can be inconvenienced by not have their own kitchen however does that mean you are not filling your responsibility as landlord? Assuming the repair is made in a timely manner and you provide a loner kitchen in the mean time I would say you are fulfilling your obligation.

How have you explained/reasoned the situation with them? Have you keep them up to date on everything you are doing to fix the problem? Some people will look for any opportunity to get a deal and no explanation will satisfy them so not much you could do then.
If they did file a T6 against you (assuming the property is in Ontario by your profile) they can basically ask for the following:
1. Rent abatement (based on opinion of dollar amount for inconvenience)
2. Order by certain date (already in process to fix ASAP)
3. Allow tenant to repair and be compensated (already in process to fix ASAP)
4. Pay tenant for expenses incurred (you provide loner kitchen, so no expenses?)
5. No rent increase until fixed (already in process to fix ASAP)
6. End tenancy (just because of bad blood between you)
I think you are covered in all situations but keep any and all documentation in order to show what, when and how you did everything possible to a) fix in a timely manor and b) provide an alternative during the repair time.

You may provide an abatement to rent or some other compensation/gift for their inconvenience but I would think this only be in interest of tenant relations, since you just started a new tenancy, and not a obligation.

 

[invst4profit]

Based on your efforts to date and the fact that they do have the use of your kitchen I would tell the father no rent discount for this minor inconvenience. Suggest to him that if he would prefer you will be willing to let his kid out of the lease. That should shut him up.
As far as the LTB is concerned your efforts to date should suffice.
Document all of the details just in case and be prepared for further issues with this guy down the road. He sounds like he may be a ongoing PITA.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Greg
I wish I was, but I`m not certain you`re correct on this post.
QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 26 2010, 03:23 PM) Based on your efforts to date and the fact that they do have the use of your kitchen I would tell the father no rent discount for this minor inconvenience. Suggest to him that if he would prefer you will be willing to let his kid out of the lease. That should shut him up.
As far as the LTB is concerned your efforts to date should suffice.
Document all of the details just in case and be prepared for further issues with this guy down the road. He sounds like he may be a ongoing PITA.

 

[Rickson9]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Sep 26 2010, 02:22 PM) Move your (working) oven into their unit
You take the non-working one and get it fixed
OR
Do same and get yourself a hot plate (confirm with insurance company) and toaster oven until fixed

I like this solution.

I`m no expert, but the solution seems fair to me.

Everything isn`t an inconvenience unless it happens to you.

 

[invst4profit]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Sep 27 2010, 12:22 PM) Hi Greg
I wish I was, but I`m not certain you`re correct on this post.


I am sure.

The board expects to see the LL put an effort forward to resolve problems and correct maintenance issues. It is not the responsibility of a LL to insure everything is perfect every moment of a tenants life.
In this case he has sufficiently attempted to resolve the problem in a timely manor and has provided a alternate, temporary, solution for the problem.
Tenants are not gods and will not be treated as such by the board.

Besides the worst possible scenario is that the tenant will take the LL to the board and the tenant will be awarded a very small rent rebate. This however is very unlikely as the student is likely too lazy and the board does not generally award rebates for every little inconvenience. However the tenant in this case will be very hard pressed to show a significant inconvenience.

Not having the use of a stove in the case where no alternate way of cooking meals is available would warrant a rebate if and only if the LL does not show he made a honest effort to correct the situation. This case does not warrant any rebate.

 

[REINteam]

Going on 1 month this is starting to get a little carried away...both from your perspective in dealing with Sears and from the tenants in not having a working stove for a full month. With that said, I agree with Greg that this doesn`t warrant extreme measures such as moving your stove into their suite or giving a rent abatement, but I would get on the horn to Sears to have this fixed right away...and in my mind that means a new stove delivered before the weekend and the broken one taken away, pretty simple to me - no working stove for over a month means give me a new one!!

Was the old stove working? Was it a simple update? Shame to get a new one only to find out the electrical was really the issue...

 

[housingrental]

I agree with most of your post below - with descent though I`ll add:
Some might view not getting in an outside repair man after this long as not really being on top of things - and award an abatement - I don`t know about you but if this was an oven in my own kitchen I`d likely have gotten someone else in by then - and some of the judgements at the LTB are rather wonky, biased against landlords, and BS claims generally get added into any claim.

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 27 2010, 06:42 PM) I am sure.

The board expects to see the LL put an effort forward to resolve problems and correct maintenance issues. It is not the responsibility of a LL to insure everything is perfect every moment of a tenants life.
In this case he has sufficiently attempted to resolve the problem in a timely manor and has provided a alternate, temporary, solution for the problem.
Tenants are not gods and will not be treated as such by the board.

Besides the worst possible scenario is that the tenant will take the LL to the board and the tenant will be awarded a very small rent rebate. This however is very unlikely as the student is likely too lazy and the board does not generally award rebates for every little inconvenience. However the tenant in this case will be very hard pressed to show a significant inconvenience.

Not having the use of a stove in the case where no alternate way of cooking meals is available would warrant a rebate if and only if the LL does not show he made a honest effort to correct the situation. This case does not warrant any rebate.

 

[spearcy]

I actually was starting to seriously consider bringing in a few burly men to swap the stoves out. I can fully sympathize with how annoying the situation has been for my tenants. Having a group of near strangers wandering in and out of my home wasn`t exactly a comfortable situation for me either. Fortunately, swapping the stoves ended up being an unnecessary step since we finally managed to get the stove working.

Turns out the problem was with the electrical after all. How this could be the case has me completely baffled though. All the wiring in the kitchen was upgraded earlier this year. The previous stove worked fine. I also watched the first Sears repairman test the stove outlet and he told me it was putting out 220 volts (as it should be). Then he traced the wiring until he found the part where the voltage went in at 220 volts but dropped to 110 volts coming out. He ordered a replacement for that part. This all made perfect sense.

The second repairman came at a time when I wasn`t available. Gotta love those "sometime between 8am and 5pm" service calls. He measured... somewhere... and told the tenants the heating elements were only receiving 110 volts and we would have to call an electrician. He also refused to even try installing the replacement part. After the first guy`s diagnosis, this sounded an awful lot like someone being lazy.

The third repairman measured 110 volts at the outlet. For comparison`s sake, he also measured the outlet to my stove and got 220 volts. Hard to argue with that. From that point, I had an electrician in and the problem solved within 24 hours.

I`m still utterly mystified how the first repairman managed to measure 220 volts though. If he hadn`t screwed up the diagnosis, this would have been fixed weeks ago.

As for Sears, I got a complete run around from them. Every time I called, I was starting from scratch. (Don`t they keep running notes for service requests?) I tried getting escalated to a manager, but just ended up sitting on hold for extended periods of time. I did discover though, if you wait long enough, they will finally tell you that there`s no managers available--but one will return your call once they`re free. I never got a call back. I also tried to get a new stove, when it still looked like it was the stove that was defective. I was told the 30 day return period had already passed, so a replacement could only be authorized by a repairman during a service call.

*head desk*

I am seriously unimpressed with Sears` customer service. I don`t believe I will ever purchase appliances from them again.

You guys, on the other hand, are great. Thank you everybody for your feedback. Adam, you made a great point in your last post. I will keep it in mind if I find myself in a similar situation again.

 

[housingrental]

Good to read the problem was solved without too much pain!

 

[invst4profit]

Even better if it was solved without having to give a rent rebate.

Next time you are in there place ask them if they need any furniture and if so tell them you will keep an eye open
for anyone getting rid of stuff. Stick to stuff like tables, lamps etc to avoid bringing in bed bugs.
Students always need something and are usually not too fussy.

 

[Nir]

Hi, the fact you are doing everything you (think you) can, does not mean you are providing the level of service you promised by being a landlord.
having good intentions is cute. being a good person too. now go read the tenancy act. cheers