Balance between work / investing, Please help!

[marco123]

Hi everyone,
I just joined this forum and came across lots of great knowledge. Thanks for some great posts.

Let me briefly introduce myself.....
I`m 23 and working full-time job(40 hours/5 days week) with decent pay. I also have a small store on ebay which give me a little bit of extra income (not much really). Other than work, i`ve starting to save and invest money about 3 years when i had 2-3 jobs at the same times w/o any investing experience. Of course i failed the first few times and lost quite a bit of my savings, but i took that as a very valuable lesson. Since then, i started to go to library more often to read books on investments and went to a couple seminars.

Lately, I got really fed up at work and i don`t think i can stay long if their work ethics keeps on going down.

My goal is to generate a large enough passive income to replace my job, so i can have more time for my ebay stores as well as investment. After a few years of work, i found out working for someone turly doesn`t work well for me. Invest to live where i`m going.

I work from 7:30-8:00 on my ebay store, 8:30 to 5 for my full-time job and spent almost whole night reading books on investment after work. This routine makes me very hard to concentrate at work.
Now my question is, Do any of you ever came across this when you`re starting to invest but time is limited by your full-time job? and at which point you would quit your job?

How hard is it to start in RE investing?
What other way can i generate a good passive income?

I`m looking forward to hear any comments or advices.
Marco

 

[AdamBlackmore]

Marco,

I`m 25 and have one investment property, just starting out myself. Hoping to pick up a second soon. I think I would be able to concentrate on work more if I wasen`t chasing these investment dreams as well!!! Working for the man is always tough when you know it`s possible to be financially free in a decade or under if everthing works out!!

I do a bit of selling online as well...

Personally I am really enjoying my start in investing, and my first property is going pretty decently for a first property. It is hard to make that step, and the first one I`m sure is toughest. A good way to start may be to buy a personal residence and rent part of it out or a duplex and live in half to make sure it`s for you. I am buying rentals first and keeping myself primary residence free for now to help with qualifying, and the flexibility to move into rental if it`s not going well.

In terms of other passive income, I was fortunate to have nothing in the stock market when it came crashing down. I put tons in after the big drop and should see excellent returns upon recovery. (Providing we don`t have great depression part 2). The TFSA is something you`d want to open up as well. ETF`s are a great tool, and recommend you look into those heavily.

 

[Dan_Eisenhauer]

What a great question, Marco.

Getting started in real estate investing is a time and $$ consuming venture. It will take you time for your friends and other contacts to recognize that you know what you are talking about when you talk about real estate. A statistic that I have heard several times lately is that it takes an "average expert" 10,000 hours of working and studying in the field to develop the expertise. If you work a 40 hour week in the industry, it will take you 5 years to get there.

I note you read a lot. I assume many of those books are about real estate. I also recommend that you take courses on real estate, over and above those offered by REIN. Your local real estate board may have some that are open to the public. The Real Estate Institute of Canada and Building Owners` and Managers` Association are two others that I can think of off the top of my head. You can find those online.

It is going to take you 2 - 5 deals on your own, perhaps with some help from friends, to make it easier for others to trust your real estate knowledge. Let`s reverse the scenario slightly, and imagine that a friend was coming to you to invest in... oh... electric cars. But this friend has never owned, built, or managed an electric car. How interested would you be in investing with him? Like the masses, you will probably wait until he proves himself as an electric car builder. That is the problem you have right now. People more often than not invest in you, not the deal. You need to develop your credibility.

OK> Now you have several properties in your portfolio. Have you ever thought of adding a finder`s fee to the properties you joint venture? Depending on the deal, you can collect a fee from 5% on up, and that is paid up front. Again, depending on the deal, you may have to change the cash flow share from the "normal 50%" to allow your JV partners a reasonable ROI. It is often a question of how much you want and when you want it.

My current rental income is not sufficient for me to wait to collect 50% of the monthly surplus, so I build a 5% finder`s fee into most of my deals, and then lower my monthly share to take less in the rental split. If you want a good program to help you figure out these variables, subscribe to REMA.

But, that does not answer your question about, "How much?" Only you can answer that. You need to figure what your basic living costs are, add any additional "nicety" expenses such as holidays or dating you may have. Then calculate what you are willing to accept as a minimum income. That is probably your starting point. How much are you taking home from your internet biz? The remainder is what you will need to live on.

I think it was Mark Victor Hansen who wrote a story (and this is the short version) about an immigrant to the US who lived, with his wife, in the storeroom of a donut shop for several years, saving his wages to be able to buy the store. He now owns a chain of donut shops, and has never looked back. What are you willing to sacrifice short term to achieve your dream?

 

[Allie]

Marco, I admire your aspirations. I struggle with the same challenges as you and I would like an Ebay store too. I`m trying to build the building blocks to be in the position to be cash flowing with passive income. Dan, the 10,000 hours you`ve been hearing probably comes from Malcom Galdwell`s book, "The Outliners" http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/index.html
He asserts that most of the successes we attribute to genetics or natural talent is really rooted in one`s opportunity to spend 10,000 hours practicing a certain skill.

 

[jarrettvaughan]

QUOTE (marco123 @ Jan 20 2009, 06:52 PM) Now my question is, Do any of you ever came across this when you`re starting to invest but time is limited by your full-time job? and at which point you would quit your job?

Hi Marco,

I am 26 years old and I have 5 investment properties, All which have been purchased well working full time+. It has been very stressful, challenging and frustrating in many situations but.....no job......no loan.

I think that it is important to recognize the fact that your full time job will limit you in time but it is also a necessity to get financing. Being young, it can be challenging to get financing so a solid job is absolutely critical in order to achieve financing. I would challenge you to change your thought pattern.............think of you job as an opportunity to generate income, network with potential investors (fellow staff members), an opportunity to give your mind a break from studying RE, and most importantly...the chance to tell you mortgage broker "yes, i have a well paying, full time, dependable job".

There have been many stories of investors who quit their job to focus on RE investing but then are unable to get financing, thus causing them to return to work.

As previously mentioned, in a number of years or decades you will have enough cash flow to quit your job, at which point, you have achieved your goals.

 

[AndyLuchies]

QUOTE (marco123 @ Jan 20 2009, 09:52 PM) Hi everyone,


Lately, I got really fed up at work and i don`t think i can stay long if their work ethics keeps on going down.

Sounds like you have two issues here:

1. If something ethical about your coworkers is bothering you, it may be time to move on regardless of financial motivations. One thing REIN stresses is honesty and integrity in all business transactions.

Aside from the above, let me just say that 40hrs work a week doesn`t sound too bad, (as a carpenter I average 55hr/wk with time for RE research) are there other things that are pushing you over the edge?

2. We all suffer the problem of "having" to work when we`d rather be doing something we love (Real Estate), maybe it`s as simple as narrowing your $$$ goal, alloting specific time to focus on them, and sticking to a proven system. For example:

BAD CHOICE = dabbling in my stocks and looking to invest in commodities and reading Real Estate books, and checking my REIN Forum, and taking a course on starting up an internet business--and doing these things as long and as hard as I can whenever I`m not working.

GOOD CHOICE = I choose to invest ONLY Real Estate, ONLY in Hamilton, Ontario, ONLY in student rental housing, ONLY surrounding McMaster University, ONLY using the REIN Program (buy and hold positive cash flow properties for building equity) and I ONLY do it on MON, TUES, and WED from 7-10pm (barring unavoidable circumstances). Only after I become "the master of student rental housing in Hamilton around McMaster University" do I branch out my expertise. Even then its a slow branching out, for example to student rental housing around Mohawk college in Hamilton. This is maybe an excessive example, but better to start too specific than too broad. The more you know your subject, the better you`ll do.

It is necessary to build in relaxation time.

My father-in-law (a self made RICH DAD) said this last night:
"The beauty about owning your own business is that you can work when you want, for as long as you want... but it`s usually a lot longer than you want."

So hang in there.

 

[invst4profit]

When I was slightly older than you I felt the same as you about working for a pay check. I thought long and hard about my future and realized that working for someone else was simply a means to an end, my job was part of my life but I would never let my life become part of my job.
It was a job not a career. Thinking this way will motivate you to succeed outside of your work place and make it far easier to leave a job rather than a career when the time comes.
This is not easy to do. I personally was not able to break away from the daily grind but that was because I was not motivated enough and reluctant at the time to take the necessary risks.

Go to work, do your job, go home. Concentrated your working time on enjoying the social aspects of the work place but make sure you meet the expectations of your employer. Do not allow yourself to be effected by the "work ethics".
If you can do your job on autopilot, satisfy your boss and save your energy for your personal life why not?
You need your job to allow you to achieve your goals in whatever other pursuits you may take on whether it be RE or any other business. You could realistically be looking at 10-15 years. Once those years are behind you they will not matter.
Individuals in careers will disagree with all of this advice and advise you to work hard or find a job you enjoy etc. but why work hard to reach a dead end. Yes you can have a job you could enjoy and if that is easy to find without starting over (pay cut) go for it. If not then stay the course and save time in achieving your real goals.

Ask any self made man/woman and they will tell you there are many sacrifices to be made in achieving the easy life,16 hr days being only one of them.

My advice, invest in good shoes. It`s a long road.

 

[Mitch Collins]

Hi Marco;

Great question that you`ve posed here!

I can remember being your age and asking the same questions. I am now 27 with 30 rentals that I manage myself. In that time, we`ve even taken a LOT of renovation projects on - a couple single family houses, duplexes, full restoration of a 60+ yr old apartment building, and more.

My wife (who thought I was a nutball when I started looking into real estate) and I have done this while I`ve maintained a full time job (44+ hrs per week), raise a 16 month old daughter and I have to work really hard to find the time to work on my real estate trading course - almost half way done.

Here is what I did when I was at your stage - spent a lot of time building a real estate team, studying real estate hard and finding a great job that you can basically me on `autopilot` with.

That job for me was working at a large OSB (plywood made from stands of wood) mill working as a portal crane operator. I used to work in the oilfield, and never knew when I was going to be home, when I`d be working, if I would be away at camp, etc. That type of lifestyle makes RE investing practically impossible.

So, this new job was a rotating shift schedule - 12 hour shifts but you only work 15 days per month, plus I can take calls from my crane. This meant that I had 15 days per month to spend building my real estate business, while still earning 85K+ per year. The stabilty of the job helped me qualify for mortgages easily and all the time I had actually allowed me to make my dreams happen.

Next, after I had bought some properties - I set up SYSTEMS. Doing this will absolutely give you your time back. Another thing you need to learn to do is `time blocking` where you set aside time each day to do a task UNINTERRUPTED. Then, even if you aren`t finished when this time is up, you do something else. This will help you work harder during your `blocked time` and accomplish much more. If you know what your outcomes need to be in an hour or 2, you can do 5 times as much as you would normally do without that laser beam focus.


That`s a little of what I`ve been up to - hopefully that helps some Marco!

Mitch

 

[klewlis]

Interesting discussion!

I struggle with the same things (have not bought a property yet--aiming for 2010!). I can`t complain too much about my full-time job... the hours are decent, my boss is great, and the money is alright (not great). But I`m bored, bored, bored. I keep thinking that I should look for something else, but I think I have decided to settle here for awhile due to the stability and the auto-pilot factor that others mentioned above. The boredom at work gives me lots of time to read this forum and other RE stuff online. My second job is at a book store which is very handy as I get discounts on RE books and/or can borrow them instead of buying them. So it works... but like you, I am looking forward to the day that I don`t have to do it this way anymore!

 

[Lermy]

Hey Marco,

The one point that is stressed by everyone is to keep that full time job. I completely agree, but I come from the opposite side of the tracks.

I`m 24 and graduated from university just over a year ago and have been building a number of businesses since. I do not have a "steady" income, only drawings from my companies every month. This has completely shut the door for me in terms of getting any financing from the banks. (My wife is completing graduate school which doesn`t help). The only reason I was able to purchase my first property is that my father helped with d/p and "guaranteed" the mortgage.

I definitely agree that keeping your steady income as you progress is essential. The only way I am able to progress in RE investing is by JV, which as a number of people have noted, is quite difficult with very little experience. The couple JV partners I have in my stable are only there because I have given them higher interest in potential properties than what is the "norm".

As soon as you`re able to move into working for yourself and being able to afford this, do it. There is nothing better than taking off five plus weeks a year to travel, relax, etc... But remember, with enjoyment also comes lots of other challenges, like your business running your life. Philip McKernan, a REIN member, speaks on this and has great thoughts/insights.

Lastly, rather than reading an investment related book this week, go to the library or go buy "The 4-Hour Work Week" by Timothy Ferriss. It is an AMAZING book! I have been working at his principles a lot and it has helped me for sure. One thing he discusses is "relative income". If you work 50 weeks a year, for 10 hours a day and you earn $40,000 then your relative income is $16/hour. Find ways to reduce the amount you work, while still accomplishing all you need to do. It is amazing how your relative income increases. Make a goal to accomplish your workload in 6 hours a day, and your relative income increases to $26.67/hour. That is a 40% increase in your relative income.

All the best,

Ryan

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (Lermy @ Jan 21 2009, 07:23 PM) ...

I definitely agree that keeping your steady income as you progress is essential. The only way I am able to progress in RE investing is by JV, which as a number of people have noted, is quite difficult with very little experience. The couple JV partners I have in my stable are only there because I have given them higher interest in potential properties than what is the "norm".

As soon as you`re able to move into working for yourself and being able to afford this, do it. There is nothing better than taking off five plus weeks a year to travel, relax, etc...

Indeed .. as cash-flow is TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT for the first five (yes, FIVE) years or so ..

Here`s my journey in a nutshell .. more in mid March @ my REIN presentation:

Step 1 - realize that real estate makes sense ca. 1988 .. wow I should do s.th. after some observations in Vancouver where we lived at the time

Step 2 - take a course / learn s.th. .. 5 years later: 1993 .. wow I know a bit now and should do s.th.

Step 3 - a further 5 years later, 1997/98: buy a small revenue condo for 80K with 20K cash .. almost no cash-flow but decent upside (finally sold in 2007 for a nice profit)

Step 4 - 3 years later, now 2000, after 2 more smaller condos with a further 20K and a LOC .. still no cash-flow: 15 suiter in Edmonton with 100K cash from myself and dad .. made a 100K in 2002 when sold .. but no cash flow for 2 1/2 years !

step 4a: a year later, now 2001: bought a 20 suiter and sold it for a 250K profit 1 1/2 years later .. wow finally I feel I`ve got some cash

Step 5: now 15 years after first observation "I should do s.th.": first syndication for a 24 suiter .. still working full-time at my software / consulting job .. still no cash-flow .. but decent profit when sold in 2007

Step 6: home run, a 120 suiter, my 4th syndication, with 850K cash form 12 investors, to form a multi-million $ profit for me and co-investors each after a re-fi in 2008 .. value going in: $5.050M .. value now: about $10 to 12.0M with 12K/month cash-flow .. 50/50 with the investors .. management time: 4h/month (maybe I should write a book: the 4h work month)!

step 7 to bring on a partner as I got too many calls and needed help with 40+ existing investors, 6 ongoing projects, daily inquires to meet/chat/discuss JVs ..

step 8 .. over $85M in assets .. 1000 fold growth from where I started over a decade ago in 1997 .. 12 years after I got off my tush to actually do s.th. about real estate investing (with more partners and 380+ investors) .. and probably not working much less than in 1997 .. different work perhaps ..

so, the lesson is, to get to 4h / week: A LOT OF VERY HARD WORK .. many many MANY years with no cash-flow .. in a bouyant market .. so: don`t give up, keep the current job or get one you like, work hard .. work very hard and don`t lose the family or faith or friends on the way .. i.e. define what success means to you ..

Lesson 2: if you are 24, and don`t have 10 assets yet .. RELAX .. it will take time .. a lot of time as the market today is not as bouyant .. relax, enjoy life, learn (@ REIN or elsewhere), buy one or 2 or 3 / year and you WILL become a millionaire or more likely a multi-millionaire and have a great marriage and a great fulfilling and balanced life !

Lesson 3: hand on financially and hang on emotionally .. as it is hard work, there are setbacks, there are personal guarantees on huge mortgages, there are evictions, there are bounced tenant cheques, there are deadlines by banks, tax or government authorities .. there are kids .. there are deaths .. there cash-flow issues, there are surprises, there are weird partners or even weirder buyers or sellers that mess things up unexpectantly ..

Lesson 4: pace yourself .. some people need lots of sleep, some need a nap, some need 2 days off every weekend, some want 6 weeks off in the summer, .. nothing will happen fast in real estate .. a slow but steady goose ..

more lessons mid March @ REIN events in Edmonton and Calgary .. see U there !

Related posts:

5 ways to make money http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-3347-5_ways_to_make_money.html

How to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html

 

[RedlineBrett]

Thomas,

That is a truly remarkable story. I haven`t read anything as inspiring as this since reading my first RE book 4 years ago. In a world inundated with bleak news and sad stories this comes at a great time.

Thank you for sharing your journey.

QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Jan 21 2009, 08:21 PM) Indeed .. as cash-flow is TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT for the first five (yes, FIVE) years or so ..

Here`s my journey in a nutshell .. more in mid March @ my REIN presentation:

Step 1 - realize that real estate makes sense ca. 1988 .. wow I should do s.th. after some observations in Vancouver where we lived at the time

Step 2 - take a course / learn s.th. .. 5 years later: 1993 .. wow I know a bit now and should do s.th.

Step 3 - a further 5 years later, 1997/98: buy a small revenue condo for 80K with 20K cash .. almost no cash-flow but decent upside (finally sold in 2007 for a nice profit)

Step 4 - 3 years later, now 2000, after 2 more smaller condos with a further 20K and a LOC .. still no cash-flow: 15 suiter in Edmonton with 100K cash from myself and dad .. made a 100K in 2002 when sold .. but no cash flow for 2 1/2 years !

step 4a: a year later, now 2001: bought a 20 suiter and sold it for a 250K profit 1 1/2 years later .. wow finally I feel I`ve got some cash

Step 5: now 15 years after first observation "I should do s.th.": first syndication for a 24 suiter .. still working full-time at my software / consulting job .. still no cash-flow .. but decent profit when sold in 2007

Step 6: home run, a 120 suiter, my 4th syndication, with 850K cash form 12 investors, to form a multi-million $ profit for me and co-investors each after a re-fi in 2008 .. value going in: $5.050M .. value now: about $10 to 12.0M with 12K/month cash-flow .. 50/50 with the investors .. management time: 4h/month (maybe I should write a book: the 4h work month)!

step 7 to bring on a partner as I got too many calls and needed help with 40+ existing investors, 6 ongoing projects, daily inquires to meet/chat/discuss JVs ..

step 8 .. over $85M in assets .. 1000 fold growth from where I started over a decade ago in 1997 .. 12 years after I got off my tush to actually do s.th. about real estate investing (with more partners and 380+ investors) .. and probably not working much less than in 1997 .. different work perhaps ..

so, the lesson is, to get to 4h / week: A LOT OF VERY HARD WORK .. many many MANY years with no cash-flow .. in a bouyant market .. so: don`t give up, keep the current job or get one you like, work hard .. work very hard and don`t lose the family or faith or friends on the way .. i.e. define what success means to you ..

Lesson 2: if you are 24, and don`t have 10 assets yet .. RELAX .. it will take time .. a lot of time as the market today is not as bouyant .. relax, enjoy life, learn (@ REIN or elsewhere), buy one or 2 or 3 / year and you WILL become a millionaire or more likely a multi-millionaire and have a great marriage and a great fulfilling and balanced life !

Lesson 3: hand on financially and hang on emotionally .. as it is hard work, there are setbacks, there are personal guarantees on huge mortgages, there are evictions, there are bounced tenant cheques, there are deadlines by banks, tax or government authorities .. there are kids .. there are deaths .. there cash-flow issues, there are surprises, there are weird partners or even weirder buyers or sellers that mess things up unexpectantly ..

Lesson 4: pace yourself .. some people need lots of sleep, some need a nap, some need 2 days off every weekend, some want 6 weeks off in the summer, .. nothing will happen fast in real estate .. a slow but steady goose ..

more lessons mid March @ REIN events in Edmonton and Calgary .. see U there !

Related posts:

5 ways to make money http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-3347-5_ways_to_make_money.html

How to get started http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-4391-How_to_get_started_.html

 

[jason]

I agree, awesome story thomas.

And good advice Mitch, thanks for that.

I`m in a similar position.

I`ve got 17 doors and have kind of hit a wall. My wife used to be a stay at home mom and I worked full time, and things seemed to be going not to bad.. then for various reasons she went back to work full time and I scaled back my work to 3 days a week. We have a 4 year old son who has some special requirements as well.

Things got more difficult from there, as things started to go wrong in places (management company not keeping track of things and letting damage get way out of hand), vacancies piled up, switching a luxury condo to furnished, mounting pressure due to a bad choice at one point, unhappy tenants due to things that need to be fixed, late rent, finding out my regular job was being closed by a spiteful company, other work circumstances, stress from being a parent, feeling like the whole thing was unraveling...

Basically at the tail end of 2008 I think I was pretty close to a nervous breakdown.

Things are a bit better, but still I really feel like I`m up against the wall. There`s not nearly enough cash flow to do it full time, but I can`t add more properties without adding more work, I can`t see how to get there from here.

I know I need better processes, but even having the time to create them seems beyond me right now.

I know my mix of properties probably exacerbates the problem, 4plexes, duplexes, luxury condos, couple of houses, spread across southern Alberta.. one managed, but managing the management company has been as much a challenge as managing it myself. Trying to manage properties an hour`s drive away as well.

So that makes it difficult in forming a good team, I`ve had a lot of difficult finding that for the out of town properties, and knowing it would be that hard I probably would have not bought them.

So the question is how to get from 17 doors to however many doors I need to be able to do it full time (and even how many doors is a reasonable level)?

I guess I need to make a plan to as Mitch points out make systems to help me get through my tasks much more efficiently. I need to get from being reactive to being able to be proactive.

Build my team, but are there other people I can add to my team that I`m not thinking of? What kinds of team members to people have that really help them save time? Are there freelance admin assistants out there for reasonable $$? Someone to help qualify prospective tenants, make calls to switch utilities, arrange repairs, etc?

I also maybe need someone experienced to help me look at my whole portfolio and instead of having all kinds of properties all over, maybe change it to a bigger multifamily? Or focus on a specific style and location?

Does REIN do that kind of thing? Can I schedule a time to go in with all my info and get some mentoring?

Sorry, lots of questions with some unloading of burdens too

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (jason @ Jan 23 2009, 08:00 PM) ...

feeling like the whole thing was unraveling...

Basically at the tail end of 2008 I think I was pretty close to a nervous breakdown.

Things are a bit better, but still I really feel like I`m up against the wall. There`s not nearly enough cash flow to do it full time, but I can`t add more properties without adding more work, I can`t see how to get there from here.

I know I need better processes, but even having the time to create them seems beyond me right now.


Take care of your family especially son + wife FIRST ! RE can wait .. kids are young only so long .. but RE can be bought 5, 10 25 or 30 years from now too ..

what is teh specific time waster ? too many tenants ? no 24/7 call in support ? too much paper work ? there are firms that for a small fee take calls from 5 pm to 9 am and dispatch keys, handy people, plumbers, ...

2 options:

a) get help, maybe an admin person or leasing assistant, P/T .. and thus higher expenses but more time for you to do what you love to do
b) sell some assets. Order them by PITA factor .. then sell the one or 2 that cause the most pain

 

[jason]

Hard to say what it is specifically, it always seemed to be something different.

Yeah, both have crossed my mind. As you say the problem with a is basically eats into the cashflow and we really don`t pay ourselves out of any of the cashflow. All but one of our places are positive, but over the years I`ve found that that positive gets eaten up by the larger expenses that pop up (replace hot water heaters, new appliances, new carpet, etc). So it feels like if we got help we`d be paying out of our own pockets.

And B heh if the market had still been hot late last year I probably would have sold everything

We bought most well before the peak so we could probably sell a few without incurring any losses, so that has crossed my mind as well. I guess I`ll have to think about it more. We do have partners involved with some of the properties so that makes the decisions more complicated as well.

 

[Nir]

Great post and discussion!

The only thing I wanted to add, I believe is VERY IMPORTANT at least in the beginning and can GREATLY reduce your stress level, is reducing you personal expenses significantly.

I went through separation myself with a daughter and found different ways to reduce my personal expenses… by 50%! It is not enough, you also need cash flow properties but suddenly you need half the properties you initially needed to become financially independent!

Just by returning a good leased car and buying a used diesel one instead (in an excellent condition) and not going to restaurants, I was able to reduce my expenses by around 33%!!!!!!!!!!!!

You think I care I have to put Tim Horton`s cup in a special place for cups above the car radio because it is a smaller car? (ha ha) who cares!

You have a goal now and that is the source of your motivation. Good luck Everyone.
Neil

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (jason @ Jan 25 2009, 09:32 AM)
Hard to say what it is specifically, it always seemed to be something different.



Yeah, both have crossed my mind. As you say the problem with a is basically eats into the cashflow and we really don't pay ourselves out of any of the cashflow. All but one of our places are positive, but over the years I've found that that positive gets eaten up by the larger expenses that pop up (replace hot water heaters, new appliances, new carpet, etc). So it feels like if we got help we'd be paying out of our own pockets.



And B heh if the market had still been hot late last year I probably would have sold everything

We bought most well before the peak so we could probably sell a few without incurring any losses, so that has crossed my mind as well. I guess I'll have to think about it more. We do have partners involved with some of the properties so that makes the decisions more complicated as well.




Cash is King - Cash-Flow is Queen !!



Sell some .. and reduce stress and turn (illiquid) equity into (liquid) cash ! Be less levered .. or go slower !!

 

[Pat]

I`ve been studying the posts on this topic and others and am most impressed with the supportive (without B. S.) discussions between seasoned "Pros" and newbies, like myself.

I am looking for a little guidance and I hope to find some help here.

I am house poor.

While I can afford my mortgage of $130K, there is not much cashflow left at the end of my month. I do have an excellent credit history but am not really able to show a strong income statement for bankers.

I do have a matrix mortgage with FirstLine with more than $160K LOC available. The problem is that I would need a positive cash flow after all expenses and debt service on the mortgage as well as the LOC on the investment. This seems like a tall order.

Compounding this is the fact that my health is not too good and I will require some type of maintenance/handyperson relationship.

The good news is that I live in Surrey, BC and am familiar with the area and its splendid opportunities for long term Real Estate investment. I am currently reading Don`s book on the ACRE system and I want to get started while I am still working part-time.

I am really looking forward to your replies.

Pat
[email protected]

 

[Patrick]

QUOTE (marco123 @ Jan 20 2009, 07:52 PM) Hi everyone,
I just joined this forum and came across lots of great knowledge. Thanks for some great posts.

Let me briefly introduce myself.....
I`m 23 and working full-time job(40 hours/5 days week) with decent pay. I also have a small store on ebay which give me a little bit of extra income (not much really). Other than work, i`ve starting to save and invest money about 3 years when i had 2-3 jobs at the same times w/o any investing experience. Of course i failed the first few times and lost quite a bit of my savings, but i took that as a very valuable lesson. Since then, i started to go to library more often to read books on investments and went to a couple seminars.

Lately, I got really fed up at work and i don`t think i can stay long if their work ethics keeps on going down.

My goal is to generate a large enough passive income to replace my job, so i can have more time for my ebay stores as well as investment. After a few years of work, i found out working for someone turly doesn`t work well for me. Invest to live where i`m going.

I work from 7:30-8:00 on my ebay store, 8:30 to 5 for my full-time job and spent almost whole night reading books on investment after work. This routine makes me very hard to concentrate at work.
Now my question is, Do any of you ever came across this when you`re starting to invest but time is limited by your full-time job? and at which point you would quit your job?

How hard is it to start in RE investing?
What other way can i generate a good passive income?

I`m looking forward to hear any comments or advices.
Marco

Marco

If you are currently working for a company that is not in alignment with your values or that you feel is of questionable ethics, then it`s likely time to begin to look for another employer. Life is to short to work at a job you hate, so consider what skills you have and are really great at and seek a position that you can apply that skill set. As you are aware, for a next period of time you need a job.

From a financial perspective don`t quit your job until you have replaced the income from another source.

As others on this thread have pointed out, at times it will be very hard work. I would quailify that however by saying when you are inspired by what you are doing and having fun it much easier to put in long days, weeks, months...

It appears you have a strong work ethic, a willingness to learn, and a desire to create your own set of circumstances that work for you...these quailities alone have you on the right path.

Creating sustainble long term income and wealth is not a journey onto it`s own.
In a 5 year window what do you want things to look like for you, in the seven primary areas of your life. Financial, Vocational, Social, Physical, Mental, Spiritual, Familial.

Look at each of area and work backwards from what you want it to look like. Just as you are beginning to do now, take one action step at a time towards the outcome you want to acheive.

Continue your education, network with like minded people, look for the support of a mentor, (find one) focus on whats important now (WIN).
Don`t focus on the top of the mountain, just focus on your next step today. When you look at a big picture its easy to become overwhelmed, break things down into managable steps. But what ever you do...take steps.

Who do you need to meet, what relationships can you create, what specific skill sets do you need to learn and develop, what changes do you need to put in place to take the next steps in the direction of your goals.

Manage the inevitable chaos that you will create and try to remember to enjoy the journey. One day you will step up, and find yourself at the top of the mountain...and you`ll be saying hmmmm, now what?

 

[AndyLuchies]

QUOTE (Pat @ Mar 15 2009, 05:02 AM)
I've been studying the posts on this topic and others and am most impressed with the supportive (without B. S.) discussions between seasoned "Pros" and newbies, like myself.



I am looking for a little guidance and I hope to find some help here.



I am house poor.

While I can afford my mortgage of $130K, there is not much cashflow left at the end of my month. I do have an excellent credit history but am not really able to show a strong income statement for bankers.



I do have a matrix mortgage with FirstLine with more than $160K LOC available. The problem is that I would need a positive cash flow after all expenses and debt service on the mortgage as well as the LOC on the investment. This seems like a tall order.



Compounding this is the fact that my health is not too good and I will require some type of maintenance/handyperson relationship.



The good news is that I live in Surrey, BC and am familiar with the area and its splendid opportunities for long term Real Estate investment. I am currently reading Don's book on the ACRE system and I want to get started while I am still working part-time.



I am really looking forward to your replies.



Pat

[email protected]




Hey Pat, glad to hear you're taking the leap into real estate.

The following is 2 cents from another newbie:



Joint Venturing (getting property with a partner who's got the money) may be the best way for you. The problem is you don't have years of experience that many partners want. Are their family/friends that are willing to invest with you in the future? That may be a place to start, but make sure you get a good knowledge base first. Learning from other's mistakes (through a book or forum) is alot cheaper than learning from your own mistakes.



The more you talk to others about real estate, the more you'll find friends interested in the same stuff (but when you do talk about it, better to start by saying something modest like "I want to buy a duplex to make some extra income" instead of, "I want to buy 1 million dollars worth of real estate and retire on my own beach in Belize").



Also, read lots of real estate success stories, people have overcome some incredible odds to become successful, it will give you the encouragement you need to keep at it.



(I was just reading today some stuff from Donald Trump- at one point he was $900,000,000 in debt.... now look at him- that turn around came from only reputation, knowledge and action.)