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Really in Need of Advice - Financial Mess

JRL

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Hello:

I`m 25 years old and have just gotten my ass-kicked in a real estate deal that started last June. I`ll try and be as specific as possible, and any advice you all can offer would be hugely appreciated.

I bought my first property in Calgary back in 2005, a couple months before property values in the city began to skyrocket which thus resulted in me riding a wave of huge capital appreciation (along with essentially every landowner in the city). It was awesome! In early 2007, I sold this condo and invested the proceeds into another condo, but this one was basically brand new, never lived in, 2 bedrooms (my prior one was only 1), and an amazing view of the downtown core from the 13th floor with a wall of floor-to-ceiling, 9` windows. A beautiful place to be sure.

Then comes June of 2007. For whatever reason, I get this itch to purchase an inner-city home. I see one I like, make a low offer, which is subsequently accepted. So now I have a house under contract and it`s time to do my due dilligence. The next day, I get a call from the agent saying that there was another offer on the house for "substantially more" than what I got for it, and since there were still conditions outstanding on my purchase, I had to make a decision to either waive all the conditions, or drop the house. In a decision that I`d later regret greatly, I chose to waive all conditions.

One of those conditions was the sale of my condo, which, given that I had about 90 days for it to sell, I didn`t feel it would be a problem getting the job done in that time. Boy, how wrong was I. There were a ton
of showings, and finally an offer after about 2 months which I accepted. All seemed to be well, until I was given notice that the buyer was backing out at the last minute due to one of his conditions being the ultra vague "subject to my lawyer`s approval". So now, I was screwed.

Also, once the conditions were waived, I had to come up with 15K as my final deposit within one day, which meant that it had to come from a credit card. This is where my once strong personal balance sheet begins the crumble. The condo continues to not sell over the last month, carrying costs continue to increase, and finally I decide to rent out the condo.

Throughout all of this, I`ve been dealing with mortgage brokers who`ve been setting up packages for me for the many "what-if" scenarios that could`ve happened throughout this. All of these inquiries on my credit bureau and the high credit card balances have really brought down my credit rating, and as a result I need to accept a "blanket mortgage" at a ridiculously high interest rate to account for what would`ve been my down payment from the sale of my condo (which never happened).

So now, I basically have 150K in equity, but due to my low credit score I`ve been told that I can`t refinance everything to get 1 mortgage on each property instead of 3 mortgages in total. I am currently the epitome of "house rich, cash poor" and I don`t know what to do about it. The Calgary real estate market continues to be driven by fear, and my condo has now been listed for about 2.5 months, and I`ve listed the house as well, which has been on the market for about 1 month. Lots of showings on each, but still no offers.

I`m really running out of money here. I appreciate the time you`ve taken to read this and any advice you all can offer. It`s this second mortgage that`s really bleeding my dry. I do have a good education, stable job, and decent income, but my credit score has taken a huge beatdown from all of this and I don`t know what to do.
 

navaz

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If the deal is still a good deal -see if you can get a JV partner who would qualify or assign the contract -but it is a tough situation
 

Eric Peters

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I agree with Navaz, a JV partner seems indicated.

Investor school - NEVER let anyone force you to do what you`re not ready to do. From your description, the property was under contract. When the realtor suggested you would lose it if you didn`t remove all conditions immediately, the correct response would have been "It`s under contract. If the vendor breaks the contract, I will sue for all potentail profits I have been defrauded of" The other action would be to file a caveat against the property. This would have locked it up until the agreed condition dates were at hand.
 

JRL

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I agree with Navaz, a JV partner seems indicated.

I`m not sure how comfortable I am giving someone else title rights to two properties which are both in prime Calgary locations. Worst case scenario, I could always get my dad involved, but to this point I haven`t really told him any of this and would really, really prefer not to.

Investor school - NEVER let anyone force you to do what you`re not ready to do.

I agree. At the time, though, it was reasonable to think that my condo would sell within 90 days. So, at the time, I didn`t deem it a significant risk, and that was really the only condition left to be satisfied.

From your description, the property was under contract. When the realtor suggested you would lose it if you didn`t remove all conditions immediately, the correct response would have been "It`s under contract. If the vendor breaks the contract, I will sue for all potentail profits I have been defrauded of" The other action would be to file a caveat against the property. This would have locked it up until the agreed condition dates were at hand.

Maybe I misused the term "under contract". We had a deal that still had conditions outstanding, most notably the sale of my condo. I was told by the realtor that as long as there are still conditions outstanding, other offers can come in and "bump" yours, which is exactly what happened. So until
I waived all remaining conditions, other buyers could swoop in.
 

marctews

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It`s worthwhile to get the lessons about what you should have done differently next time, but it sounds like you want help in getting out of your current predicament.

If it`s as bad as you make it out to be, I also agree: giving a JV partner an ownership stake is not the end of the world. (An even better sell to a potential partner that it`s in a "prime inner city location"). It will free you up mentally from the baggage you are probably carrying. I would try and see the big picture. Correcting your course now will allow you to pursue other opportunities sooner rather than dealing with stressing over this problem for the next several months.

Maybe even someone on this board would partner up with you for the right opportunity





QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 08:48 AM) I agree with Navaz, a JV partner seems indicated.

I`m not sure how comfortable I am giving someone else title rights to two properties which are both in prime Calgary locations. Worst case scenario, I could always get my dad involved, but to this point I haven`t really told him any of this and would really, really prefer not to.

Investor school - NEVER let anyone force you to do what you`re not ready to do.

I agree. At the time, though, it was reasonable to think that my condo would sell within 90 days. So, at the time, I didn`t deem it a significant risk, and that was really the only condition left to be satisfied.

From your description, the property was under contract. When the realtor suggested you would lose it if you didn`t remove all conditions immediately, the correct response would have been "It`s under contract. If the vendor breaks the contract, I will sue for all potentail profits I have been defrauded of" The other action would be to file a caveat against the property. This would have locked it up until the agreed condition dates were at hand.

Maybe I misused the term "under contract". We had a deal that still had conditions outstanding, most notably the sale of my condo. I was told by the realtor that as long as there are still conditions outstanding, other offers can come in and "bump" yours, which is exactly what happened. So until
I waived all remaining conditions, other buyers could swoop in.
 

PeterKinchMortgageTeam

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 07:29 AM) Hello:

I`m 25 years old and have just gotten my ass-kicked in a real estate deal that started last June. I`ll try and be as specific as possible, and any advice you all can offer would be hugely appreciated.

I bought my first property in Calgary back in 2005, a couple months before property values in the city began to skyrocket which thus resulted in me riding a wave of huge capital appreciation (along with essentially every landowner in the city). It was awesome! In early 2007, I sold this condo and invested the proceeds into another condo, but this one was basically brand new, never lived in, 2 bedrooms (my prior one was only 1), and an amazing view of the downtown core from the 13th floor with a wall of floor-to-ceiling, 9` windows. A beautiful place to be sure.

Then comes June of 2007. For whatever reason, I get this itch to purchase an inner-city home. I see one I like, make a low offer, which is subsequently accepted. So now I have a house under contract and it`s time to do my due dilligence. The next day, I get a call from the agent saying that there was another offer on the house for "substantially more" than what I got for it, and since there were still conditions outstanding on my purchase, I had to make a decision to either waive all the conditions, or drop the house. In a decision that I`d later regret greatly, I chose to waive all conditions.

One of those conditions was the sale of my condo, which, given that I had about 90 days for it to sell, I didn`t feel it would be a problem getting the job done in that time. Boy, how wrong was I. There were a ton
of showings, and finally an offer after about 2 months which I accepted. All seemed to be well, until I was given notice that the buyer was backing out at the last minute due to one of his conditions being the ultra vague "subject to my lawyer`s approval". So now, I was screwed.

Also, once the conditions were waived, I had to come up with 15K as my final deposit within one day, which meant that it had to come from a credit card. This is where my once strong personal balance sheet begins the crumble. The condo continues to not sell over the last month, carrying costs continue to increase, and finally I decide to rent out the condo.

Throughout all of this, I`ve been dealing with mortgage brokers who`ve been setting up packages for me for the many "what-if" scenarios that could`ve happened throughout this. All of these inquiries on my credit bureau and the high credit card balances have really brought down my credit rating, and as a result I need to accept a "blanket mortgage" at a ridiculously high interest rate to account for what would`ve been my down payment from the sale of my condo (which never happened).

So now, I basically have 150K in equity, but due to my low credit score I`ve been told that I can`t refinance everything to get 1 mortgage on each property instead of 3 mortgages in total. I am currently the epitome of "house rich, cash poor" and I don`t know what to do about it. The Calgary real estate market continues to be driven by fear, and my condo has now been listed for about 2.5 months, and I`ve listed the house as well, which has been on the market for about 1 month. Lots of showings on each, but still no offers.

I`m really running out of money here. I appreciate the time you`ve taken to read this and any advice you all can offer. It`s this second mortgage that`s really bleeding my dry. I do have a good education, stable job, and decent income, but my credit score has taken a huge beatdown from all of this and I don`t know what to do.


If you haven`t already talked to a mortgage broker - now might be the time to do so. They have access to lenders that your own bank does not. Since your LTV is low, you might look at doing a second mortgage with a private lender to pay out your credit cards.

Seconds aren`t cheap, but It probably won`t be anymore expensive than the interest rate you`re paying on your credit cards, and it will let you get your credit back in order so that in 6 - 9 months, if you still have any of the properties, you can refinance them with fully discounted rates.

Hope that helps,
 

mortgageman

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If you truly don`t want a JV partner from the wider community then I`d suggest getting your dad involved even if it isn`t your first choice and might be emotionally challenging.
Make the deal a win/win for him like a standard JV deal is structured.
Finally, don`t let this experience stop you from future real estate investing. Think of all you`ve learned and move forward once you get this resolved.
All the best
Jason
 

RedlineBrett

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 08:48 AM) Maybe I misused the term "under contract". We had a deal that still had conditions outstanding, most notably the sale of my condo. I was told by the realtor that as long as there are still conditions outstanding, other offers can come in and "bump" yours, which is exactly what happened. So until I waived all remaining conditions, other buyers could swoop in.

If the sellers have agreed to a contract with you then you are in control of it until the condition date expires. You can`t be `bumped`. If they accepted your conditional offer and cashed your deposit cheque it is your deal. The new buyer would be submitting an offer that would only come into play if yours fell through and you didn`t remove conditions. Saying there is another offer in behind you can be a common tactic to put pressure on buyers to waive.
 

JRL

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Thanks very much, guys. Peter & Jason, since you both are mortgage guys, would either of you be able to help? I do have one mortgage broker but he essentially said that refinancing/repackaging is out of the question right now.

Also, would you folks mind explaining the benefit for me of having a JV partner involved?

Lastly, I`m definitely not discouraged from real estate investing in light of this. I`ve now rode both the bull and the bear, and feel that I`ve learned a wealth of information from all this.

Thanks again - keep the advice a comin`!
 

JRL

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If the sellers have agreed to a contract with you then you are in control of it until the condition date expires. You can`t be `bumped`. If they accepted your conditional offer and cashed your deposit cheque it is your deal. The new buyer would be submitting an offer that would only come into play if yours fell through and you didn`t remove conditions.

What happened was I gave them 1K upon conditional acceptance, and another 15K after all the conditions were waived. But I only waived the conditions because I was told it was either that or lose the house to the new buyer.

Saying there is another offer in behind you can be a common tactic to put pressure on buyers to waive.

Should I get a lawyer? This has materially impacted my life in a negative way. The other problem was that there was dual agency in this case, the agent was both the seller of the property and my representation as the buyer. I don`t want this guy getting away with anything if he wronged me.
 

RedlineBrett

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 08:48 AM) I agree with Navaz, a JV partner seems indicated.

I`m not sure how comfortable I am giving someone else title rights to two properties which are both in prime Calgary locations. Worst case scenario, I could always get my dad involved, but to this point I haven`t really told him any of this and would really, really prefer not to.

If you have two payments eating you up and you can`t sell either property you will be faced with the lesser of two evils: Going to someone for help or continuing on as you are. End game if you can`t sell is burning through all your cash and then killing your credit rating if you get foreclosed on or go into collections on your CCs.

Honestly bro - if you are really in trouble you should cut someone in on one of your deals and free your mind of this. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life.
 

JRL

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Honestly bro - if you are really in trouble you should cut someone in on one of your deals and free your mind of this. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life.

Thanks, and I don`t disagree, but how do you do this? How do I simply "cut someone in"?
 

RedlineBrett

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 09:36 AM) If the sellers have agreed to a contract with you then you are in control of it until the condition date expires. You can`t be `bumped`. If they accepted your conditional offer and cashed your deposit cheque it is your deal. The new buyer would be submitting an offer that would only come into play if yours fell through and you didn`t remove conditions.

What happened was I gave them 1K upon conditional acceptance, and another 15K after all the conditions were waived. But I only waived the conditions because I was told it was either that or lose the house to the new buyer.

Saying there is another offer in behind you can be a common tactic to put pressure on buyers to waive.

Should I get a lawyer? This has materially impacted my life in a negative way. The other problem was that there was dual agency in this case, the agent was both the seller of the property and my representation as the buyer. I don`t want this guy getting away with anything if he wronged me.

I`m not going to advise you on something of this nature - probably best to speak with a lawyer familiar with agents and agency representation. If you wanted to kick the tires on it call around at CREB (calgary real estate board) and explain to them what happened and they will guide you better than I can.

It does sound very suspicious and there has been no end of filthy dual agency deals done in the past few years. The fact that the listing agent was also the owner takes away his incentive to represent you fairly as a buyer and if he said certain things to you and didn`t follow the proper paper trail you might have a case.

Always get an independant buyer agent on your side... no cost to you at all if you buy off MLS. So many buyers don`t understand this and end up dealing with the listing agent who not only pockets twice the commish but is in complete control of the information recieved by both parties and they can spin things however they see fit to get deals done.
 

RedlineBrett

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 09:47 AM) Honestly bro - if you are really in trouble you should cut someone in on one of your deals and free your mind of this. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life.

Thanks, and I don`t disagree, but how do you do this? How do I simply "cut someone in"?


Well you would have to find a partner and sell them part of the deal. You would need to package up one of the properties as an investment and give an equity share to someone for helping you out with what you need.

But this could be tough because the properties weren`t purchased with the intent to maximise value as investments. You have a problem to solve and a sharp partner could pick up on this and I have a feeling you`ll face an uphill battle.

In all honesty the easiest way to do this would be to talk to your dad about it... If you have a passable relationship with him and if you were my client this is what I would advise you to do. A very large percentage of young buyers need help from their parents when first getting into real estate (I did). Your situation is unique but your folks won`t want to see you crash and burn - they will help you out and if you have good relations with them this likely won`t cost you as much or be as difficult as selling off one of your properties as an investment to a third party.
 

JRL

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Thanks again. As it stands now, the plan is still just to sell one of the two, which would allow me to refinance everything. What I`m really looking for is a backup plan in case neither sells.

So excited to be done with this.
 

RedlineBrett

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QUOTE (JRL @ Mar 18 2008, 10:27 AM)
Thanks again. As it stands now, the plan is still just to sell one of the two, which would allow me to refinance everything. What I'm really looking for is a backup plan in case neither sells.



So excited to be done with this.




Well you sound like a smart guy that got caught up in a bad situation. Certainly not uncommon.



Good luck with the sales and your backup plan. I would also reccomend that you crunch the numbers and decide on a date when you will put your backup plan into action.
 

invst4profit

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My advice, as a dad, is go to your father. Unless you have a bad relationship
with him it would be what he would want you to do. Maybe he can`t help but if he can
it would only be until you get a sale and this way you do not have to take on a partner
and share your hard earned rewards. Just make it worth his efforts.
Now having said that we all know you will sell one of your units, it always happens eventually,
you just need to have confidance, time and maybe dads temperary support.
Maybe drop the price on one to move it along. You may lose some money but at least you
won`t lose everything.
Don`t let the stress get to you, it`s only business, dig in, work day to day, get what help you
need and move on.
I know that is all easy to say but you will walk away from this a wiser man and maybe richer.
 

MikeMcCrae

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Know when to hold know when to fold. Sometimes you need to take a bit of a hit to go forward. Seldom does getting lawyers involved help. They are important but trying to sue your realtor will likely cost you more then you would ever recover and the emotional part is the biggest cost of all.Sell something and buy your way out and fight another day.
 
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