Tv show investigates Rich Dad Seminars..

[Gen1GT]

QUOTE (johnkim @ Feb 2 2010, 04:57 AM) I`m sorry to say this but you are plain dumb. I wish you luck in real estate and don`t lose a shirt.

Thank you. I`ll be sure to share my successes with you.

I`m not pretending to be a real estate expert, as the learning curve is very steep. All I doing is trying to argue that RK is not a scammer, even if Whitney/Tigrent/Company X is...

If Kiyosaki is aware that he made a bad choice (which I`m sure he is) by licensing to Whitney, then I`m sure he`s on top of it. Legal issues don`t get solved overnight, especially when they`re international issues.

Mecheng, you had questioned how much someone can get out of a three day seminar, so I responded that you can feel free to quiz me. I don`t know what my 3 days worth of training compares to what you know. But I know that people take what they want from something like that. When he talked for 30 seconds about Internal Rate of Return, everyone just stared with a blank look. I wrote it down then researched it, and now I know IRR measures the time value of money as well as your return on investment. In learning about IRR, I also learned about Net Present Value, which I`m sure most novice real estate investors don`t use to evaluate a property. I learned about wholesaling, lease options, seller financing, building your team, etc.

With the material provided in the course, I also learned basic accounting, how to read income statements, financial statements etc. I know about income to debt ratios, debt to service ratios, income to equity ratios to help me evaluate a business. I created my own financial statement, and I know my net worth, debt to equity ratio, income to debt ratio. I know the difference between earned, passive and portfolio income. I could go on and on. But my point is that before I sat down to my "free" siminar in December, I didn`t know any of this stuff. And between December 15th, a $500 credit card charge and now, I`m more financially aware than anyone I know outside of a related industry. When we interviewed our real estate agent, she asked me what financial institution I worked for.

I`m not bragging about what I know, so please spare me with the "well isn`t Gen1GT a big shot!" comments. I`m just trying to point out that my $500 was the best $500 ever spent. I`ve taken a lot of schooling related to my fluid power field, and no single class, semester or year of that schooling will increase my earnings as much as that 3 day seminar.

You guys need to stop judging. I`m sure the REIN system is great, but there`s more than one way to skin a cat. You only get as much out of an education as you put into it.

 

[Mecheng]

Actually I didn`t question "how much someone can get out a 3 day course". I asked "what did you get out of the 3 day course".
FYI the REIN Quick Start Program is also a 3 day course and at the end of it one can confidently purchase their first 1, 2 or 3 properties.

I was asking compared to other similar courses "does this course provide value for the price?"
Clearly you think it does and based on your last post it does appear they provided some real information and didn`t just try to sell to you for 3 days.
So my original question "Do you think you left with a program that will confidently allow you to purchase your first properties?"
If your answer is yes then I guess you got the value you expected.

However, I`m not sure it is the value in the course that people are questioning but rather the up sell tactics used by this particular instructor.
Everyone tries to up sell, it`s just good business practice, and even REIN will show the advanced courses they offer during Quick Start.
The difference is if they try to up sell and then leave the choice to you or continue to pressure.
I know you didn`t have that instructor but many who also didn`t have that instructor say they had similar experiences.

Hopefully RK is trying to fix this issue, but no one knows for sure and that is the debate.
No matter what side of the coin you fall on (pro Rich Dad or not), your speculating, as we won`t know for some time.

 

[gwasser]

QUOTE (Gen1GT @ Feb 2 2010, 05:26 AM) Thank you. I`ll be sure to share my successes with you.

I`m not pretending to be a real estate expert, as the learning curve is very steep. All I doing is trying to argue that RK is not a scammer, even if Whitney/Tigrent/Company X is...
.......

You guys need to stop judging. I`m sure the REIN system is great, but there`s more than one way to skin a cat. You only get as much out of an education as you put into it.

Judging is part of every investor`s tool kit. How else can you figure out what to invest in? Not all judgements may be correct, but that does not mean that you should not judge.

Also, the level of investors you encounter here on this forum ranges from beginner to extremely advanced. There are a number of active forum participants that have written best selling books on real estate. Others provide educational seminars and still others are the quiet silent deep ones (well, I wouldn`t call Thomas quiet and he certainly has is opinions and judgements, but he is not the book writing or seminar delivering type

).

So with this wide range of investment experience, don`t be offended when somebody judges certain things as `obvious` or `something everyone should know`. It is just because of their investment experience that they `judge` things that quickly and that way.

Having said that, yes the things you learned at your weekend were worth yourwhile. But for many, that is basic stuff and in their mind not worth the $500 and certainly not $25,000 to $40,000 for a follow up course - heck that is a downpayment for a house. Look around and see some of the seminars that are offered to REIN they are a lot cheaper and read their real testimonials here on this forum. You may yourself come to the same conclusions that many others came to regarding Rich Dad seminars.

This forum is the cheapest form of education into real estate. You find wide ranging opinions - some hilarious, some infuriating and others `dead on`. I joined REIN a couple of years ago as a mature investor in the stock market, a real estate investor scarred by the `1982` recession - my childhood trauma. And now, I am back in real estate for the last 10 years and a REIN member since 2007. Every day I hang around this forum I learn - it is a great resource.

My dream is to help young people, such as yourself (I presume), while learning from more experienced real estate investors around me. My dream is to build up a real estate company that helps young people and investors to get on their way to a financial fulfulling future as part of their goal(vision) in life. Once, you have reached your `goal` you may find out, like I did, that it is not really that final and that you can chase even larger goals.

As part of my dream, I have started also my blog which links back to my `Realtor`s page. That way, I hope to attract young people that are interested in working with me. Now, working with me does not mean that I will be nice, sweet and tactfull. I can be quite, as you earlier pointed out, `arrogant` or blunt. Sometimes, I feel I have to be that way to get the message through. Anyway, I thought I give you here some feed back on your positive learning experience and your enthusiasm about R.K.

As a general conclusion: remember, there are no dumb questions or comments - I make many. But it is dumb to not ask or discuss your investment ideas.

Wow, another long one. Maybe I should post it on my blog - http://canadiandiversifiedinvestor.blogspot.com/

 

[Rickson9]

When I was 14 years old, I convinced 2 friends to pool our money to pay $500 to get one of us in to listen to a real estate seminar. At that time I had only read "One Up On Wall Street" by Peter Lynch and the seminar "instructor" was Tom Vu (blast from the past?).

The only thing I learned was to focus on "distressed" situations. Although the idea is simplistic, investing only during "distress" has served me very well in my brief investing career so I guess one can conclude that the $500 was well spent. I think that with time, however, I would have come to the same conclusion, but you never know.

After the seminar one of my friends said, "It`s amoral to buy a property from a distressed old lady!". He would not be swayed from his position. So now I just buy the property from the bank after they kick the old lady out.

Anyway, Mr. Vu is now pursuing his dream of being a professional poker player. His casino poker tournament winnings have totalled approximately $1.3M as of 2008 (including a 2nd place finish at the 2007 WSOP no-limit holdem tournament) so he appears to have some skill at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vu

 

[EdRenkema]

QUOTE (Rickson9 @ Feb 2 2010, 08:51 PM) When I was 14 years old, I convinced 2 friends to pool our money to pay $500 to get one of us in to listen to a real estate seminar. At that time I had only read "One Up On Wall Street" by Peter Lynch and the seminar "instructor" was Tom Vu (blast from the past?).

The only thing I learned was to focus on "distressed" situations. Although the idea is simplistic, investing only during "distress" has served me very well in my brief investing career so I guess one can conclude that the $500 was well spent. I think that with time, however, I would have come to the same conclusion, but you never know.

After the seminar one of my friends said, "It`s amoral to buy a property from a distressed old lady!". He would not be swayed from his position. So now I just buy the property from the bank after they kick the old lady out.

Anyway, Mr. Vu is now pursuing his dream of being a professional poker player. His casino poker tournament winnings have totalled approximately $1.3M as of 2008 (including a 2nd place finish at the 2007 WSOP no-limit holdem tournament) so he appears to have some skill at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vu

Best line ever by Tommy Vu: Do you think these girls like me? NO they like my money.

 

[Gen1GT]

gwasser, I`m sure there`s a lot more value in REIN education than Tigrent or Whitney or whatever, and I see myself going down that road, for sure. One of the things Rich Dad teaches, is that investing is a team sport. So following that philosophy, I know it`s going to take the help of others to get me where I want to be. I`m not bitter because many of you are biased against Kiyosaki, I just think those biases are misplaced.

Anyway, I`m sure I`ll be meeting many of you before the year is out.

 

[Mabouer]

QUOTE (Gen1GT @ Feb 1 2010, 07:28 AM) I watched the show on Friday night, and I feel it was a horrible piece of journalism with weak understanding of the topic, poor excuses for "victims," and a stubborn mission to crucify Rich Dad above the truth. Anyone who has read any Rich Dad material knows what Robert Kiyosaki is really about, and he`s way too intelligent a business man to run a scam. The Rich Dad education system is a licensed product. Robert doesn`t run the programs. I don`t know much about the Whitney program, but it appears to be less well run than the other one in Canada, Tigrent Learning. If you went to a McDonald`s in India and thought the place was a dump and you found a hair in your Big Mac, would you complain to Ray Croc?



I went to the $500 3-day seminar hosted by Tigrent learning in Hamilton a few weeks ago. It was, without a doubt, the best $500 I`ve ever spent in my life. Our instructor was a great guy named "Pip." We learned a ton of the basics of real estate investing, covering enough topics that it`s enabled me to focus my energy on further education, even if it`s not with Rich Dad. Not only did I get 3 days worth of training, I got a real estate textbook with great info plus various Rich Dad materials which keep in line with his how to be Rich philosophy. The program is so much more than just how to do real estate. The Rich Dad program emphasizes other aspects you won`t see at a regular seminar. They teach you to hire fantastic team members, such as lawyers, accountants, brokers and agents etc. They teach you asset protection, financial awareness, non-real estate investment teachings etc. I also got books on accounting, financial statements, etc, in addition to a 12 CD set which is great to listen to in the car since I have a long commute. I also got Kiyosaki`s Financial IQ book. All of that for $500?? I would have paid $500 for all the books and CD`s. Anyone that has taken any sort of education knows how much value there is in getting that much for that little cost.



I haven`t even done my first real estate transaction, but it`s already changed my life. I have more drive and passion, I`ve set lofty goals for myself and because of massive amount I`ve learned already, a real estate agent asked me what financial institution I worked for (even though I work in an engineering field). I wouldn`t have found this forum if it wasn`t for Rich Dad. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad last year, and since then, I`ve got my finances under control, we budget our money, we save $200/week for savings/investing/charities. I`ve lowered interest rates on our credit cards while increasing their limits.



Just like any other education system, not everyone gets the same out of it. The problem with persons like the woman and man interviewed on Marketplace, is that they thought it was going to be a get rich quick program. It`s not. It`s a system they`re selling. I didn`t buy into their system, because I`m one of those individuals that excels at self-learning. There`s no doubt that anyone doing the courses won`t be successful. No doubt at all. I just know I can be successful without it, so I`m going to learn what I can with the wealth of information that`s available these days. I already have a real estate agent working for me, multiple sources of private money lined up, a great lawyer that can take care of everything from real estate transactions to our 3 tier corporation and asset protection.



It`s sad that our media is so obsessed with reporting everything that`s negative. This ignorant journalist either didn`t do her homework to see how many successful and happy persons there were going through the program, or she just didn`t want to ruin her pseudo-exposé. It`s no problem though. If everyone is going to stay away from Rich Dad education now, then it means there is fewer competition for me! Haha.

Tigrent is Whitney Canada under a different name. I have taken a lot of Whitney Canada courses before Rich Dad became involved and have found them to be very good and have done extremely well in Real Estate because of what I have learned through their instructors.

 

[housingrental]

Hi Mabouer

That`s fantastic!
Perhaps you can advise us on:
Which courses you took through them?
How they were well done?
How you were able to extremely well in real estate through them?
Which properties you own and where?

QUOTE (Mabouer @ Feb 3 2010, 02:36 PM) Tigrent is Whitney Canada under a different name. I have taken a lot of Whitney Canada courses before Rich Dad became involved and have found them to be very good and have done extremely well in Real Estate because of what I have learned through their instructors.

 

[MikeDix]

The sad reality is that Whitney (or whomever they go by now) and Fast Track use the Rich Dad brand credibility to open the door, and then the sales pitch for other products or services starts in earnest. It`s a shame the documentary omitted to include Fast Track, as Whitney is only half the story. See the Darren Weeks thread. Sounds like RK`s due diligence on these companies leaves something to be desired, and his licensing contracts do not give him the right to easily withdraw his brand. In the meantime, there are going to be people spending way more money than they can afford on `seminars` that are more like sales pitches based on the `trust me or else you are stupid` theme. All probably legal in the fine print, but morally corrupt.

 

[JDaley]

QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 1 2010, 12:16 PM) </FONT>
</FONT></FONT>I have based my personal opinion on the data I have read and heard as well as on my personal experience as an investor. (I read a number of his books, I saw his ads and I didn`t want to touch them with a 10 foot pole - call that what you want). Yes his first book was good and others were OK and a lot of people learned from it. That doesn`t jusify the rest.


</FONT></FONT>Regarding getting crappy service at McDonalds. No I never did, not even in Jakarta. Not in Holland or in other places I went. The quality of their burgers is not great but then you get what your pay for. Yes, Ray Croc is responsible and if McDonald`s did not meet customer`s expectations his earnings would decline and he would definitely be held responsible by the shareholders as well as that he would lose marketshare and sell less franchises. He and his company could and would be taken to court by shareholders, by angry franchisees and by sick customers. Remember the case of the scalded coffee? Remember the obesity lawsuit?


I saw on the videos what happened. I have heard similar testimony from others. And even if you raised your limit to $45,000 who in their right mind would use a credit card for a downpayment on a real estate property. If you were that underfunded you should not go into real estate. Just common sense. Furthermore if you need a $500 real estate course to learn how to increase your credit card limit and lower your interest, then I have a bridge for sale in Manhattan. Normally one goes to a bank clerk for that and that doesn`t cost you $500.

I bet that you don`t like to hear that either and you want to call me `arrogant` again? (Ain`t I feisty today?)

</FONT>

Excellent post.

 

[3dkeeper]

What I`d like to see if self-responsibility. I have taken many courses over the years in many different industries. Some I have gotten alot out of and some not. Who`s responsibility is that? Mine I`d say. Why the blame game? Real Estate Investing is not for everyone. I took the 3 day training course offered by Whitney in Saskatoon June, 2007 and signed up for $27,000 worth of advanced courses. To me - worth every penny. Shortly after, I believe August of 2007 I became a REIN member - again worth every penny. We purchased our first rental property in September of 2007. We now own over 100 doors and have increased our networth over $1M. We have bought single family homes as rental long term buy and hold. We have done fix and flip. We`ve done Rent-To-Owns. We have completed 2 condo conversion projects and just last week bought a 39 unit apartment building at an auction in the US putting the deposit on our credit card. We have done some pretty creative financing deals. I learned from attending the courses and networking with others that attend the courses. I learn from my Realtor. I learn from my Mortgage Broker. I learn from my JV partners. I learn from reading these posts. I read books on Real Estate Investing. I listen in to teleseminars. And.....the biggy...I take action. Forget everyone else! Ask "what can I do?" "What will work for me?" And then get out there and do it. Love the posts!

 

[smallfry]

I am both a REIN member and a student from the Rich Dad System (formerly Russ Whitney and now Tigrent). I was very disappointed with the one-sided coverage on marketplace and wondered why there was no reporting from those of us who have actually done all of the training and been very successful. I don`t consider myself a victim given that my investment in the courses more than paid for itself many times over. The quality of the 3 day bootcamps is by far the best I have seen and I have done many.
I am not quite sure why selling quality training that can help you build real estate holdings and build wealth is considered a scam. I have earned far more money from what I learned through that investment in my education than from my university degree.
The people profiled on the show were expecting something for nothing and they expected to get rich quick. Their attitudes alone would never had allowed them to be successful.

 

[philipluk]

Has anyone attended the Poor Mom Seminars?

 

[housingrental]

RE " I am not quite sure why selling quality training that can help you build real estate holdings and build wealth is considered a scam." What was shown was the free event is being marketed as provided quality training and instead provided minimal content and was sales pitch. A lot of people would view this as a scam.

Also - When you start up selling people into tens of thousands of courses for those that might not be financial suitable or able to take advantage of the knowledge gained, and other quality information is available for much cheaper, some people take issue with this.



QUOTE (smallfry @ Mar 25 2010, 04:49 PM) I am both a REIN member and a student from the Rich Dad System (formerly Russ Whitney and now Tigrent). I was very disappointed with the one-sided coverage on marketplace and wondered why there was no reporting from those of us who have actually done all of the training and been very successful. I don`t consider myself a victim given that my investment in the courses more than paid for itself many times over. The quality of the 3 day bootcamps is by far the best I have seen and I have done many.
I am not quite sure why selling quality training that can help you build real estate holdings and build wealth is considered a scam. I have earned far more money from what I learned through that investment in my education than from my university degree.
The people profiled on the show were expecting something for nothing and they expected to get rich quick. Their attitudes alone would never had allowed them to be successful.

 

[Cargren]

QUOTE (housingrental @ Mar 26 2010, 10:46 AM) What was shown was the free event is being marketed as provided quality training and instead provided minimal content and was sales pitch. A lot of people would view this as a scam.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Adam! (quite the switch, eh

) I`ve gone to several of these events that they`ve promoted as a fantastic "teaching" event, and you walk away scratching your head wondering if you missed something as you didn`t learn anything other than how the speaker has made so much money and would be very happy to teach you how to do the same if you plunk $20,000 on the table. Then you get a follow letter/email expounding on what a fantastic evening or weekend it had been, and how much everyone had learned. I always feel like an idiot as I`m left wondering where I fell asleep and missed half the show.

However, in the truest since of the word it`s hard to call it a scam as you said it was a "free event". If I don`t get sucked into shelling out any dough, I have only wasted my valuable time. Hey, you`re right it is a scam....

This is why I appreciate REIN`s events. They actually do give excellent teaching/training/tools etc, without promoting or pushing a bunch of other costly courses, etc.

GO REIN GO

 

[housingrental]

You wait long enough you see everything at least once

QUOTE (Cargren @ Mar 26 2010, 04:44 PM) I wholeheartedly agree with you Adam! (quite the switch, eh

) I`v

GO REIN GO

 

[RCrein]

QUOTE (philipluk @ Mar 26 2010, 07:18 AM) Has anyone attended the Poor Mom Seminars?

Her name is Savannah Ross. I have not attended her seminar but listened to her speak for an hour about six weeks ago. She tells a story of her family`s financial collapse and rebirth. Her son is seriously sick and she and her husband took him home to die but he unexpectedly lived and created a legacy of medical debt. Her husband lost his job and the family was facing losing their house and pending bankrupcy. When the settlement came in she decided it wasn`t enough to stave off bankrupcy, so she decided she would invest it in real estate. She read RE books while she nursed her son and a few weeks later went out and bought their first property. In short order she bought two others. All multifamily - duplexes to sixplexes, if I remember correctly. She claimed these homes were undervalued and cash flowed. Her expertise seemed to lie in the claims she made about knowing how to find these properties through geat common sense research but she didn`t give away the whole story. In the years since, she claims to have gone on "binge buying sprees"; buying as many as FORTY properties in a TWO week period. She says she is not driven by the money but by the opportunity to found an orphanage in a poor country (Cuba I think) because she had a hard childhood herself (I don`t remember her actually saying she was an orphan).

She is clearly an intelligent woman. Although she claims not to be a speaker, she did a good job entertaining a crowd. I got a couple of ideas to think about but have to say it was not a very educational session. I believe she had been in town to promote her seminar/course in the prior couple of days. She claims that once she started on the path to real estate riches she was so enthusiastic that other interested couples were just invited over for the weekend to talk RE. She commented that she was running a Bed and Breakfast without pay. So it seems the course flowed out of this and her desire to fund the orphange. I have to say that the crowd of investors that I attended with was not smitten with her. I suspect because she made claims without much backup (no property info in her powerpoint) and was a little abrupt with questions raised. I had a look at her website after the talk and at that time there was next to no content but plenty of emotional story.

I`ve given you the bulk of what I heard. She is sharp and has some experience. I never found out how many properties they have. When she wants to, she can be pretty direct about communicating her strategies. You will have to judge how much you will get out of her that will be valuable to you. There will be an emotional story surrounding it all. BTW, the son is still alive but was in the emergency room in a local hospital with her husband as she spoke to us. Hope this helps.

 

[BrianPersaud]

Hi Folks, if you`ve been burnt by these seminars or have had a great experience....share your stories tonight 79 on Inside Toronto Real Estate 416.446 7090 or email [email protected] and ask the panel questions.


Here`s the release:


Tune into Rogers TV`s Inside Toronto Real Estate on Wednesday, November 10th at 7:00 PM as we investigate get rich quick real estate seminars:

Are the money making ideas feasible?
Can they be executed? or
Are they Against the law?

Host Brian Persaud will lead a discussion with Mark Loeffler, Author and Real Estate Expert and Mark McMackin, partner and real estate lawyer with Ricketts Harris.

During the show, we will show the pitfalls of not doing your homework for these expensive seminars.

Viewers are encouraged to call 416.446 7090 or email [email protected] and ask the panel questions

Each week Inside Toronto Real Estate takes a look at the Toronto Real Estate market, mortgages, property values, legal issues and everything you need to know before and after you sign on the dotted line of your home purchase. Each week, host Brian Persaud talks with industry experts to help potential buyers fulfill their dream of owning a home or condo.

Inside Toronto Real Estate airs Wednesdays at 7:00 PM only on Rogers TV ( Cable 10 in Toronto and Cable 63 in Scarborough) and repeats Thursdays at 2 PM. For complete broadcast details, please visit www.rogerstv.com/ITRE