Tina Myrvang said:

Hello Xavier,

Welcome to our forum. We have members across Canada. This is the best place to connect with them. We do not come to Quebec for Live meetings or events. All our content is offered online for our members.

Have a wonderful day.

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XavierCP said:

Hi there,

I am new on this forum and was wondering if there's active REIN members in Quebec or I have to look towards Ontario?
I noticed the REIN events are located more on the west of Canada or in Ontario.

Is the French language a barrier?

Thank you

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Alvaro Sanchez said:

There is not much content on the Quebec side on the forum and there is only a handful of members who invest in Quebec.

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• Increased In-Migration and Demand
• The Ripple Effect
• Local, Regional and Provincial Political Climate
• Transportation Expansion
• Areas in Transition

Montreal area – Decade-low affordability not an obstacle to buyers Montreal is the other major market in Canada that set an all-time sales record in 2018 (46,800 units). Supported by a vibrant economy and increasing international interest, demand has been solid across the board. So much so that sellers have gained the upper hand in all housing categories—even condos. Property values are going up but at a controlled pace (in the range of 5-6% year over year). This is gradually eroding housing affordability to levels that potentially could pinch buyers but, as in Ottawa, buyers weren’t bothered by it. RBC’s aggregate measure for Montreal was little changed at 44.5% in the fourth quarter, still near a decade high.
Source: http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/canadian-housing/house-mar2019.pdf

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XavierCP said:

Thank you Alvaro Sanchez,

I started to analyze the macro economic forces that drive market values (Increase in Average Incomes, Housing Affordability Index) and until know I didn't find Montreal to be more attractive to invest compared to other cities in Canada.

I just started my analysis though, I have to look for these other factors:

• Increased In-Migration and Demand
• The Ripple Effect
• Local, Regional and Provincial Political Climate
• Transportation Expansion
• Areas in Transition

Until now, I think that Montreal remains a great area to invest for these reasons from RBC:


What do you think?

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Alvaro Sanchez said:

While the macro economics are important factors, you must not forget that true valuation of a property is done by a clear understanding of how to make a property increase valuation. I am targeting Ottawa-Gatineau and Montreal which is in my view are very stable market with lots of demand for housing, employment and new transportation projects.

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Willyboy said:

It also depends on where in the real estate cycle a city is. And it depends greatly on average rents. Generally speaking Montreal is a stable and less cyclical market which is very good. However the small and large multifamily sector has been in a bubble like the other major cities relative to average rents in the city which are lower than in other cities and that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good. They're as bad as the ones in Vancouver and Toronto. Hyper inflated prices relative to rents. Multifamily prices in Montreal are lower but because of rent control they seem high and the cash flow is not good but to tell you the truth people in Montreal are lucky due to rent control and most likely happier which is a good thing. Condos and single family houses are not as bad in terms of affordability compared to other cities but they're not as popular for investment as plexes or large apartment buildings. Condos in some areas like downtown and some others are good for investment but prices are up already so it's too late now.

Regardless if you invest for the long term and depending on your age you're fine never mind where you invest but keep in mind long term doesn't mean 5 or 10 years unless you're lucky and you're buying at the bottom but currently most major cities are at or near the peak so if you buy today you might have to wait at least 15-25 years in order to make some good return.

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XavierCP said:

Thank you Willyboy for your answer!

When you write "...that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good.", may I ask you from which report you are referring to for the cash flow numbers?

I am looking to invest in a rental property to have positive cash flow every month, it's my priority before the potential value increase of the property.

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Martin1968 said:

I don’t think anyone that knows real estate needs a report to figure out cash flow sucks in markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or as suggested Montreal. It’s a simple calculation based on what’s out on the market to purchase, at what price, and the rent projections.

Significant positive cashflow is virtually unattainable in those markets. On the other hand, when you say you want to invest in positive cashflow properties, how much monthly positive cashflow is enough for you.
$5.00 ? $50.00? $100.00? $250.00? $500.00?
All those numbers are positive but will make a world of difference in your investment-dollars making a splash.

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

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Rickson9 said:

Cash flow made me rich

Appreciation keeps me rich

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Willyboy said:

Hi Xavier,

No worries. I didn't look at any report. All you need is some basic understanding of mathematics, common sense and some basic rental housing knowledge like property taxes, insurance, average rents (you can find them on CMHC website), maintenance costs, vacancy( CMHC website), property management, etc....

Your next best friend is a good online rental property analyzer to input the figures corresponding to those things above.

In Montreal and Quebec there's a very popular type of rental housing that doesn't exist in the other cities in Canada. It's called Plexes from 2 to 5 units. But because they have been very popular and in high demand for the last two decades they got highly inflated in prices and consequently the cash flow became negative if you use real expense numbers and not enhanced proformas. Typically in this type of housing a small investor buys say a duplex or 3 plex or 4 plex or even a 5 plex, lives in one unit and rents out the rest. And due to the fact that investors buy them to live in one of the units they pay sometimes a premium as they consider the whole structure as their own living place and the rest of units as a mortgage helper or a rental investment. Many of them also have a very beautiful curb appeal and in very good locations where they get snapped up quickly and hence the negative cash flow. Now if you manage them yourself and are a handy man as well the cash flow becomes a little positive but not everybody can do that. The potential for price appreciation is very good on the other hand as it has been before but you would have to wait until you resell say in at least 5-7 years so you can offset the negative cash flow if you're not self managing.

The other type of rental property like anywhere else in Canada is apartment buildings 6 units and up and they have better cash flow numbers due to the fact that they typically are used strictly as rentals and have more units. However because of rent control you won't see high positive cash flow.

REIN is a very good site for education. And I recommend you check out the Club d'investisseurs immobiliers du Quebec. They are very similar to REIN but in Quebec only. REIN is Canada wide so if you'd like to invest out of Quebec REIN is good for you.

Research property analyzers as well and try to meet with a investor focused realtor to show you how to use a cash flow analyzer. Be aware though that some realtors use the numbers to input there in such a way to make the cash flow seem like positive so you have to get education on the realistic numbers to use and you probably can get that education at REIN or other clubs if you are in Quebec.

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ThomasBeyer said:

Real estate is like a three course meal (TM). It has three profit centers: cash-flow (or the appetizer), mortgage paydown (the main course) and equity appreciation through asset improvements and inflationary rental upside (the dessert).

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ThomasBeyer said:

Cash-flow does NOT make you rich, but it allows a sustained ownership. Appreciation and mortgage paydown (by others) is where you get wealthy.

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Rickson9 said:

Cash flow made me rich

Appreciation keeps me rich

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Martin1968 said:

I don’t think anyone that knows real estate needs a report to figure out cash flow sucks in markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or as suggested Montreal. It’s a simple calculation based on what’s out on the market to purchase, at what price, and the rent projections.

Significant positive cashflow is virtually unattainable in those markets. On the other hand, when you say you want to invest in positive cashflow properties, how much monthly positive cashflow is enough for you.
$5.00 ? $50.00? $100.00? $250.00? $500.00?
All those numbers are positive but will make a world of difference in your investment-dollars making a splash.

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

Click to expand...

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

Click to expand...