allowed smoking in rental?

[TommyK]

Hi everyone,

I am getting close to get my first property! I am very thrilled at this point.

I am investing in Edmonton. I have questions about renting out to smokers. I understand the city is mostly blue-collar. I know a lot of them that smoke.

What is your experience like renting to smokers? I am investing in apartment style condo.
What do I have to be careful when renting out to smokers?


I heard from a friend that she charges a premium rate (or have lots of potential renters) for smokers.

Any input on this is appreciated!

Thanks.

Tommy

 

[BrianAllcock]

Hi Tommy,

Here is a little story of my own, I am very trusting in what people say (maybe a bit naive). However, I have had one renter in the past and one renter at the present moment that smoke. In both cases, I have mentioned that there is no smoking within the appartment. All have agreed, that smoking was not an issue due to having children and don`t want to expose them to the smoking environment and are willing to go outside during the winter in the harsh environment. Unfortunately, both renters decided to smoke in the apartment regardless of the countless conversations (and children) around not smoking in the apartment.

In my personal opinion (and I smoke), If I were to deal with the option of a smoker, in the future,, I would:
1. Have a lease signed for 1 year, and have the cost of repainting, cleaning and steam cleaning the carpets covered in the cost (also the cost of patching the floor or countertops. ie... when they drop their cigarette or leave it on the countertop while taking care of other matters).
2. Not rent to them at all

I am personally in favour of Number 2.... Taking into account that before the lease is up. You will be taking your prospective new tenants into the apartment, and all they will smell is smoke... even though you say that you will have it cleaned up by the time they move in. It is a turn off while they are visiting at that time. They don`t want to smell the smoke, and you will probably have the condo not rented for 1 month just because you are taking care of the cleanup after they leave.

Best Regards, and hope this helps.
Brian

 

[TommyK]

Thanks for your input.

I am not a smoker, so I dont` know what is the degree of damage from someone who smokes in the apartment all the time. I would assume the smell will be terrible.

Any other member with some thoughts on smoking in the apartment?

Thanks!

 

[David90]

I own and manage several apartments in Edmonton. My experience is that when you rent to smokers you will be spending lots of money to fix up the place after they leave. If they constantly smoke in the apartment, even after 6 months you will most likely be repainting the ceiling and walls.

One of my buildings is a non-smoking building. In the 5 years I have owned it I very rarely have had to repaint the ceilings. The places just stay so much cleaner when there are non-smokers living there. Some of the other buildings I manage we are constantly having to repaint due to the yellowing of the walls and ceilings. And the cigarette burns in the flooring and countertops are unsightly and costly to repair. (That`s if you can get someone out to do the repair).

One thing to note, smoke is not considered wear and tear (as my experience with the courts has proven) and you can deduct from the security deposit to cover the cost of the repainting. Usually you will have to pro-rate the cost of painting over 5 years, as the courts seem to feel that a reasonable life time for a paint job is 5 years. For example, if they stay for 2 years you can charge them 60% of the repainting cost (36 months lost out of 60).

The easiest thing is to find non smokers (which in my experience is pretty easy), or factor in the extra costs of repainting and repairs into your cashflow calculations.

Good Luck,

David Birkholz

 

[TommyK]

Thank you for the advice.

I think I am going for non-smoking restriction. It seems like there`s too much to look after a smoker.

 

[stepchuk]

We have also had problems with smokers inside our units. Other than the obvious "yellowing" of any white walls and ceilings within the place, we have had to deal with major lino and carpet burn marks, which are very expensive fixes that the damage deposit doesn`t always adequately cover.

 

[GarthChapman]

Definately non-smoking is the only way to go. Allow them smoke outside.

Think about having a specified penalty in your lease for breaking this rule. Specified penalties stand up well in Court if you end up there. This could eliminate the need to rely on the Security Deposit to fund cleanup required, and would allow you to act DURING the Tenancy.

I am suggesting a clause in the lease something like this "If the Tenant smokes inside the property, contravening the no-smoking rule, the Landlord will take the following actions (describe what you will have done and services being employed) and the full cost of these actions will be immediately billed to the Tenant, and will be due in full within 7 days of receipt of invoice".

I will post this in the Ask an Expert - Legal forum to seek some feedback from our legal minds in the community.

 

[EdRenkema]

QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Aug 24 2008, 11:38 AM) Definately non-smoking is the only way to go. Allow them smoke outside.
Think about having a specified penalty in your lease for breaking this rule. Specified penalties stand up well in Court if you end up there. This could eliminate the need to rely on the Security Deposit to fund cleanup required, and would allow you to act DURING the Tenancy.

I am suggesting a clause in the lease something like this "If the Tenant smokes inside the property, contravening the no-smoking rule, the Landlord will take the following actions (describe what you will have done and services being employed) and the full cost of these actions will be immediately billed to the Tenant, and will be due in full within 7 days of receipt of invoice".

I will post this in the Ask an Expert - Legal forum to seek some feedback from our legal minds in the community.

I`m going to weigh in here, yes no smoking in the unit is the way to go. I have a smoker in one of my condos and the lease specifies no smoking inside. Its coming up to 3 months she`s been there and I will soon do a walk through, I`ll know immediately if she`s been smoking inside.
On another note I`m putting in an offer on a commercial property with 2 retail and 5 apartments and when I walked through the apartments to my horror ALL the tenants are heavy smokers and smoke inside, even the retail tenants are smokers but by law they cannot smoke inside (one good thing the province has done) Other than that everything looks great, recent renovations, great cashflow. My only fear is I`d look at a minimum 1 month vacancy to clean and repaint to even consider getting a nonsmoking renter. This is an issue I always hoped I wouldn`t have to deal with but here I am....

Plus here in Ontario we cannot collect a damage/security deposit!

 

[TommyK]

QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Aug 24 2008, 10:38 AM) Definately non-smoking is the only way to go. Allow them smoke outside.

Think about having a specified penalty in your lease for breaking this rule. Specified penalties stand up well in Court if you end up there. This could eliminate the need to rely on the Security Deposit to fund cleanup required, and would allow you to act DURING the Tenancy.

I am suggesting a clause in the lease something like this "If the Tenant smokes inside the property, contravening the no-smoking rule, the Landlord will take the following actions (describe what you will have done and services being employed) and the full cost of these actions will be immediately billed to the Tenant, and will be due in full within 7 days of receipt of invoice".

I will post this in the Ask an Expert - Legal forum to seek some feedback from our legal minds in the community.

Thank you so much for the help Garth. I will refer to your post when I am looking for tenants (pretty soon I hope!)

Tommy