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Beehive Troubles

O

ottawarentals

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Sep 2, 2009
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One of my units has a hidden beehive inside the roof. It was discovered at the beginning of September. I have had the terminators in 2 times to spray with mixed results. They are going in again today to spray for the 3rd time (actually injecting in walls this time).

Now the issue at hand is the tenant hasn`t been able to really live in the unit. The bees have been in the unit constantly and stingning her on occassion. I don`t want an unhappy tenant, but mother nature is out of my control and I am doing what I can.

I am new to being a landlord, what is your opinion on this one - should I refund some of her rent for the month as she wasn`t able to use the unit, or should I just leave it as mother nature and not much I can do about it? I want happy tenants, this one has lived in this particular unit for 5 years. I have only owned the building now for 2 months...

Any input appreciated!
 
You should refund the entire months rent to your tenant
Or you should offer her temporary alternative accommodations if tenant is agreeable (ie motel nearby - that you pay for)
 
QUOTE (housingrental @ Sep 22 2009, 08:31 AM)
You should refund the entire months rent to your tenant

Or you should offer her temporary alternative accommodations if tenant is agreeable (ie motel nearby - that you pay for)




thanks for the resposne. What is your rationale? Is it more of an moral/ethical issue in that I am supposed to be providing safe housing? I am leaning toward the refund, but I cannot control Mother Nature...
 
QUOTE (ottawarentals @ Sep 22 2009, 08:46 AM)
thanks for the resposne. What is your rationale? Is it more of an moral/ethical issue in that I am supposed to be providing safe housing? I am leaning toward the refund, but I cannot control Mother Nature...






Did the exterminators just spray?

When it gets cold, you might want to open up the wall and remove the hive.

If you're lucky and it's bees, not wasps, you may be rewarded with honey.



Mother Nature brings rain, cold and other things too which you must also keep out of your units.
 
Refunding a months rent is a bit over the top.

Talk to her. Obviously having only owned the place two months you probably do not know her very well. She may be very understanding and for all you know staying with family or a close friend occasionally. Talking can get a better feel for the situation rather than simply arbitrarily throwing a months rent at her.
Remind yourself you are running a business and successful business practices do not arbitrarily call for throwing money at every problem as a first reaction.
Find out what she might consider fair or reasonable compensation in this situation first. She may feel the same as you and a flower/ fruit basket when this is all over may thrill her to death.

Test the water before throwing a pail of money in the lake unnecessarily.
 
To respond to both Greg`s and Ottawarentals posts:

Bees aren`t supposed to be infesting someone`s suite
You`re responsible to ensure the buildings maintained to prevent wildlife entering
Even worse three weeks after you were aware of the problem it`s still not solved.
The tenant has also been attacked a number of times
You`re providing a service for money - having an apartment filled with bees for three weeks and getting stung a number of times isn`t most people`s vision of a safe living environment!

Also this is a long term tenant that presumably (?) you want to keep happy and staying there.

Refund her money!
 
Pest control experts are able to eliminate bee hives and wasp nests inside building with one spray.

We handle several nests a year. My personal resident collects at least one nest a year. In the cracks in the brickwork, and in the soffit, under the back stairs, in the hot tub.

The cost is usually less than $150. The nest is gone within 24 hours.

The tenant or other residents could potentially sue you for not controlling the pests. If an allergic reaction from a bee resulted in a hospital stay........

Adam has it right, make a deal with your tenant that is fair and reasonable. If you get away with only the rent, you are doing well.


The reasonable man test:

If this nest was in your home and you had young children playing outside, would you wait 3 weeks to do something?
 
QUOTE (brentdavies @ Sep 23 2009, 09:54 AM)
Pest control experts are able to eliminate bee hives and wasp nests inside building with one spray.



We handle several nests a year. My personal resident collects at least one nest a year. In the cracks in the brickwork, and in the soffit, under the back stairs, in the hot tub.



The cost is usually less than $150. The nest is gone within 24 hours.



The tenant or other residents could potentially sue you for not controlling the pests. If an allergic reaction from a bee resulted in a hospital stay........



Adam has it right, make a deal with your tenant that is fair and reasonable. If you get away with only the rent, you are doing well.





The reasonable man test:



If this nest was in your home and you had young children playing outside, would you wait 3 weeks to do something?




Just to set the record straight, I have not waited 3 weeks to do something. I am on the 3rd spray in fact, so thats one spray per week... I am doing everything I can to control the situation.



Anyway, all a moot point, I have offered her *free* rent next month. She was very happy with that offer and she has also confirmed the spray that was done this week (which was actually sprayed into the walls this time...) seems to have taken care of the problem.



Thanks for everyones input.
 
How much was the tenant actually inconvenienced. How much time was she away from the apartment and after the first spray was the problem reduced.
I can`t see giving up 1/12th of my income without knowing all the details. Pretty hefty price for possibly a moderate inconvenience.
I have had bees at my home and in my home, with kids, and found it a minimum inconvenience which would not personally send me running for compensation.
I tend to dislike this entitlement society we are living in where things that are inconvenient or some what out of the norm requires that we seek dispensation.
You fixed the problem, you give her something nice to apologise and everyone moves on.

However your business, your decision.
 
Greg try to look at it this way - You have a business. You might not think the operating environment is ideal but you have to follow whats required. If tenant with hold rent next month, and you go to LTB, what do you think the ruling would be?




QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 23 2009, 01:25 PM) How much was the tenant actually inconvenienced. How much time was she away from the apartment and after the first spray was the problem reduced.
I can`t see giving up 1/12th of my income without knowing all the details. Pretty hefty price for possibly a moderate inconvenience.
I have had bees at my home and in my home, with kids, and found it a minimum inconvenience which would not personally send me running for compensation.
I tend to dislike this entitlement society we are living in where things that are inconvenient or some what out of the norm requires that we seek dispensation.
You fixed the problem, you give her something nice to apologise and everyone moves on.

However your business, your decision.
 
Giving the advice to forgive a months rent without even knowing the details is a Knee jerk reaction.
There was no mention in the OP that the tenant was up set, that she was out of pocket for expenses, that she was in fact even out of the apartment for a extended period of time. As far as her going to the LTB do you not think a conversation with the tenant would first be helpful in determining what action is warranted or is it best to just customarily offer a months rent every time a tenant is slightly inconvenienced. Thank goodness tenants don`t pay two months at a time.

Is every LL on this site of the opinion that as LLs we must worship at the feet of tenants for fear they will move out and we will have to go through the misery of doing that most feared of jobs---------finding new tenants. Heaven forbid.


Not a single LL on here even bothered to ask what the demeanor of the tenant was or the details regarding the extent of the problem before piping in that the LL should give her a months rent.
I can not believe any rational business person would run a successful business that way.

I hear on this site far to often "throw money at the tenant" that will solve all the problems and is the responsible thing for a LL to do.
That,in my opinion,is a irresponsible way for anyone to run a business.

The best approach is to talk to the tenant,find out the details, determine how it impacted them personally, determine if they were out of pocked, judge if the out of pocked expenses were warranted, determine as there LL if you are in any way responsible, take what ever action is necessary to correct the situation and offer the tenant the minimum amount you as a LL deem necessary to appease the tenant. That is a professional business approach.

Also I can almost guarantee the LTB would not grant the tenant a months rent knowing the LL took action almost immediately. Maybe a few days at most but then again no one asked how the tenant was impacted so who knows. Not us that`s for sure.
 
I see the points on both side in terms of what to give - a little, something in the middle, or alot...



The tenant, in this case, was quite upset. She hasn't been able to live in her apt for most of the month. She has been stung numerous times, during the daytime and at night.



Its a good lesson for me, maybe next time I won't offer a full month of rent, however, from what I can tell, this is an excellent tenant who has lived in the unit for 5 years. I would rather keep her than her become unsatisfied and then the unit is empty for a month or two, or more!












QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 23 2009, 07:45 PM)
Giving the advice to forgive a months rent without even knowing the details is a Knee jerk reaction.



There was no mention in the OP that the tenant was up set, that she was out of pocket for expenses, that she was in fact even out of the apartment for a extended period of time. As far as her going to the LTB do you not think a conversation with the tenant would first be helpful in determining what action is warranted or is it best to just customarily offer a months rent every time a tenant is slightly inconvenienced. Thank goodness tenants don't pay two months at a time.



Is every LL on this site of the opinion that as LLs we must worship at the feet of tenants for fear they will move out and we will have to go through the misery of doing that most feared of jobs---------finding new tenants. Heaven forbid.





Not a single LL on here even bothered to ask what the demeanor of the tenant was or the details regarding the extent of the problem before piping in that the LL should give her a months rent.

I can not believe any rational business person would run a successful business that way.



I hear on this site far to often "throw money at the tenant" that will solve all the problems and is the responsible thing for a LL to do.

That,in my opinion,is a irresponsible way for anyone to run a business.



The best approach is to talk to the tenant,find out the details, determine how it impacted them personally, determine if they were out of pocked, judge if the out of pocked expenses were warranted, determine as there LL if you are in any way responsible, take what ever action is necessary to correct the situation and offer the tenant the minimum amount you as a LL deem necessary to appease the tenant. That is a professional business approach.



Also I can almost guarantee the LTB would not grant the tenant a months rent knowing the LL took action almost immediately. Maybe a few days at most but then again no one asked how the tenant was impacted so who knows. Not us that's for sure.
 
I have to strongly disagree with your assessment of this Greg.



The poster had said:

Issue has been going on for three weeks

Tenant has been stung



There's not much ambiguity - tenants shouldn't have to pay rent under these conditions.



There's minimal chance if this goes to the LTB the tenant wouldn't win a rent abatement (or more..)



Your approach isn't a "proffesional business approach" ... When someone prepays money for a service, and that service is not rendered, and the tenant (or any customer in a different business..) wasn't the reason why the service weren't rendered, a professional business is obligated to refund the money. The alternative, your approach, is tantamount to theft.


















QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 23 2009, 09:45 PM)
Giving the advice to forgive a months rent without even knowing the details is a Knee jerk reaction.



There was no mention in the OP that the tenant was up set, that she was out of pocket for expenses, that she was in fact even out of the apartment for a extended period of time. As far as her going to the LTB do you not think a conversation with the tenant would first be helpful in determining what action is warranted or is it best to just customarily offer a months rent every time a tenant is slightly inconvenienced. Thank goodness tenants don't pay two months at a time.



Is every LL on this site of the opinion that as LLs we must worship at the feet of tenants for fear they will move out and we will have to go through the misery of doing that most feared of jobs---------finding new tenants. Heaven forbid.





Not a single LL on here even bothered to ask what the demeanor of the tenant was or the details regarding the extent of the problem before piping in that the LL should give her a months rent.

I can not believe any rational business person would run a successful business that way.



I hear on this site far to often "throw money at the tenant" that will solve all the problems and is the responsible thing for a LL to do.

That,in my opinion,is a irresponsible way for anyone to run a business.



The best approach is to talk to the tenant,find out the details, determine how it impacted them personally, determine if they were out of pocked, judge if the out of pocked expenses were warranted, determine as there LL if you are in any way responsible, take what ever action is necessary to correct the situation and offer the tenant the minimum amount you as a LL deem necessary to appease the tenant. That is a professional business approach.



Also I can almost guarantee the LTB would not grant the tenant a months rent knowing the LL took action almost immediately. Maybe a few days at most but then again no one asked how the tenant was impacted so who knows. Not us that's for sure.
 
Ottawarentals - No that`s not the lesson to take away from these posts... Next time, even if the tenant is happy, you still offer the full amount. You`ll never be able to tell in advance who will cause you problems a few months later....
Also from an ethical perspective you can`t be ripping people off...

QUOTE (ottawarentals @ Sep 24 2009, 09:29 AM) I see the points on both side in terms of what to give - a little, something in the middle, or alot...

The tenant, in this case, was quite upset. She hasn`t been able to live in her apt for most of the month. She has been stung numerous times, during the daytime and at night.

Its a good lesson for me, maybe next time I won`t offer a full month of rent, however, from what I can tell, this is an excellent tenant who has lived in the unit for 5 years. I would rather keep her than her become unsatisfied and then the unit is empty for a month or two, or more!
 
I believe my system of analyzing the situation and determining a proper compensation is how anyone would approach an issue such as this. A standard one month rebate every time a tenant has an issue is ridiculous. Tenants have issues, we all do, it`s part of life but that does not mean the LL must be out a months rent every time.

IN this case, now that the full story is in, I would tend to agree a months refund is not far out of line. But my point was every LL wanted to throw money at the tenant from the get go as soon as they heard "three weeks" without knowing how she was effected.
Some of you LL are either in this as a hobby or you are getting so stinking rich that a months rent is a drop in the ocean.
To most of us it is a lot of money and if we gave that much every time some tenant cried we would not be in business long.
I run a tight ship, no freebies.
 
For ease of readability please see my response in red.

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Sep 24 2009, 09:57 PM) I believe my system of analyzing the situation and determining a proper compensation is how anyone would approach an issue such as this. A standard one month rebate every time a tenant has an issue is ridiculous. It is, but I didn`t suggest this.

Tenants have issues, we all do, it`s part of life but that does not mean the LL must be out a months rent every time. For sure.

IN this case, now that the full story is in, I would tend to agree a months refund is not far out of line. But my point was every LL wanted to throw money at the tenant from the get go as soon as they heard "three weeks" without knowing how she was effected.Yes and I take issue with this point. The tenant was stung and the unit was infested for three weeks after the landlord`s aware of it. It doesn`t matter how hardy the the tenant is. The owner needs to refund the rent!

Some of you LL are either in this as a hobby or you are getting so stinking rich that a months rent is a drop in the ocean. A property owner`s lack of wealth has no relevancy. They have responsibilities, like keeping ensuring animals can`t take over units! If you don`t have money to maintain your property and provide the service contracted than you need to sell your business.

To most of us it is a lot of money and if we gave that much every time some tenant cried we would not be in business long.
I run a tight ship, no freebies.
 
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