Are illegal suites an issue with your rental properties? More and more cities/towns are considering how to deal with illegal suites and absentee landlords. What are your experiences? Are bylaws being passed which you think are a deterrent to real estate investing? How are you dealing with them?
Bylaws Concerning Illegal Suites
- Thread starter Gale
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QUOTE (Gale @ Feb 18 2010, 12:01 PM) Are illegal suites an issue with your rental properties? More and more cities/towns are considering how to deal with illegal suites and absentee landlords. What are your experiences? Are bylaws being passed which you think are a deterrent to real estate investing? How are you dealing with them?
In Calgary, illegal suites are suites in properties with the incorrect landuse zoning and those that were build not meeting the building and safety code. In the case of legal suites, the building codes require amongst others:
A second type of suites are non-conforming suites. These suites were legal at the time of construction but due to by-law changes they are no longer `legal`. So they are basically `grand fathered` (I guess being a grand father is better than a morther-in-law
). So there is no danger of being shut-down. However, once you undertake significant non-cosmetic upgrading, you will be required to have the entire suite meet current code and safety regulations.
Hope this helps.
In Calgary, illegal suites are suites in properties with the incorrect landuse zoning and those that were build not meeting the building and safety code. In the case of legal suites, the building codes require amongst others:
- separate entrance
- adequate fire protection between floors
- basement windows large and accessible by occupants as fire-escapeseparate heatingproper kitchen and bath, toilet - not sure on the last three but I would want that in any suite I rented.
A second type of suites are non-conforming suites. These suites were legal at the time of construction but due to by-law changes they are no longer `legal`. So they are basically `grand fathered` (I guess being a grand father is better than a morther-in-law
Hope this helps.
QUOTE (Gale @ Feb 18 2010, 12:01 PM) Are illegal suites an issue with your rental properties? More and more cities/towns are considering how to deal with illegal suites and absentee landlords. What are your experiences? Are bylaws being passed which you think are a deterrent to real estate investing? How are you dealing with them?
Illegal, is illegal, in short illegal suites are an issue with rental properties. If you have an illegal unit, better to legalize it (ie., get permits), or rent it as a home (assuming you have an up/down suited bungalow). If something happens, such as the Parkdale incident in Calgary, you`ll soon find yourself in a world of hurt/trouble (likely charged, as the two fellows were in Parkdale) - its not worth it. Keep your nose clean, its the smart thing to do in the long run.
The City of Calgary has strict rules about legalizing Seconday suites such as the sq footage, fire and heating - they`ll usually classify a bungalow with a lower suite as a duplex or grandfather what`s already there (if they know about it) provided it hasn`t been updated recently. I don`t think the bylaws are a deterrent to real estate investing, in fact, they add value to an investment property. As an investor I`ll pay a premium for a legal unit over a similar one that is not - less headaches.
Illegal, is illegal, in short illegal suites are an issue with rental properties. If you have an illegal unit, better to legalize it (ie., get permits), or rent it as a home (assuming you have an up/down suited bungalow). If something happens, such as the Parkdale incident in Calgary, you`ll soon find yourself in a world of hurt/trouble (likely charged, as the two fellows were in Parkdale) - its not worth it. Keep your nose clean, its the smart thing to do in the long run.
The City of Calgary has strict rules about legalizing Seconday suites such as the sq footage, fire and heating - they`ll usually classify a bungalow with a lower suite as a duplex or grandfather what`s already there (if they know about it) provided it hasn`t been updated recently. I don`t think the bylaws are a deterrent to real estate investing, in fact, they add value to an investment property. As an investor I`ll pay a premium for a legal unit over a similar one that is not - less headaches.
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QUOTE (JDaley @ Feb 18 2010, 12:19 PM) The City of Calgary has strict rules about legalizing Seconday suites such as the sq footage, fire and heating - they`ll usually classify a bungalow with a lower suite as a duplex or grandfather what`s already there (if they know about it) provided it hasn`t been updated recently. I don`t think the bylaws are a deterrent to real estate investing, in fact, they add value to an investment property. As an investor I`ll pay a premium for a legal unit over a similar one that is not - less headaches.
There are very very few properties that are recognized by the city as `fully legal`. Those that do have two addresses and two recycle bins things like that. If you are interested in a property just call 3-1-1 and give them the address. They`ll tell you what they have on file. 99% of the time there will be no basement suite in their system.
But that`s not to say that the suite wouldn`t be classified as legal/non-conforming. Most landlords do not want to `chance` this process in case their property fails for one reason or another. Here is some info on this distinction
http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/sdab/suites.pdf
If you want to apply for permits now you would have to meet this criteria
http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/dba/br...es_brochure.pdf
Based on these documents just about ALL suites in the city would be defined as illegal. In order to be legal or legal non-conforming you have to have permits for the suite from before 1983 or otherwise be able to PROVE the suite was put in before `83, or current permits and inspection certificates from the city of Calgary.
The biggest issues with bylaw comes from those suites that are in R-1 neighborhoods. If you have an illegal suite on a lot that has the proper zoning for one you aren`t in nearly as much risk and if bylaw does take objection you can go straight to a DP application and get to skip the very arduous (and never successful) change of land use application.
The city is moving (very slowly) towards a relaxation of their permitting requirements... items such as separate entry, dual heating sources and maximum allowable square footage are a little silly according to many investors. However I think proper windows and two easy methods of egress from each suite are a must and no one would complain about having those rules enforced.
There are very very few properties that are recognized by the city as `fully legal`. Those that do have two addresses and two recycle bins things like that. If you are interested in a property just call 3-1-1 and give them the address. They`ll tell you what they have on file. 99% of the time there will be no basement suite in their system.
But that`s not to say that the suite wouldn`t be classified as legal/non-conforming. Most landlords do not want to `chance` this process in case their property fails for one reason or another. Here is some info on this distinction
http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/sdab/suites.pdf
If you want to apply for permits now you would have to meet this criteria
http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/dba/br...es_brochure.pdf
Based on these documents just about ALL suites in the city would be defined as illegal. In order to be legal or legal non-conforming you have to have permits for the suite from before 1983 or otherwise be able to PROVE the suite was put in before `83, or current permits and inspection certificates from the city of Calgary.
The biggest issues with bylaw comes from those suites that are in R-1 neighborhoods. If you have an illegal suite on a lot that has the proper zoning for one you aren`t in nearly as much risk and if bylaw does take objection you can go straight to a DP application and get to skip the very arduous (and never successful) change of land use application.
The city is moving (very slowly) towards a relaxation of their permitting requirements... items such as separate entry, dual heating sources and maximum allowable square footage are a little silly according to many investors. However I think proper windows and two easy methods of egress from each suite are a must and no one would complain about having those rules enforced.
Your requirements to `legalize` suites sound fairly mild compared to what our town council has come up with. They have decided that secondary suites are allowed only if the landlord lives on site, and no they will not grandfather existing suites...
Fair enough. R-1 is designated for low density, safe environment for rising family.
Also rentals should perform better in multi-residential designated areas.
Also property taxes for multi-residential are per unit, and SF are taxed as one unit, though higher.
That`s why 2 non-conforming 4-plexes pay significantly less tax than one 8-plex. At least here in Hamilton.
There are quite a few neglected rental properties here. I have no sympathy to their LL.
QUOTE (Gale @ Feb 18 2010, 07:41 PM) Your requirements to `legalize` suites sound fairly mild compared to what our town council has come up with. They have decided that secondary suites are allowed only if the landlord lives on site, and no they will not grandfather existing suites...
Also rentals should perform better in multi-residential designated areas.
Also property taxes for multi-residential are per unit, and SF are taxed as one unit, though higher.
That`s why 2 non-conforming 4-plexes pay significantly less tax than one 8-plex. At least here in Hamilton.
There are quite a few neglected rental properties here. I have no sympathy to their LL.
QUOTE (Gale @ Feb 18 2010, 07:41 PM) Your requirements to `legalize` suites sound fairly mild compared to what our town council has come up with. They have decided that secondary suites are allowed only if the landlord lives on site, and no they will not grandfather existing suites...
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Before the big legalization initiative in Edmonton, someone from the planning and development department estimated that at least 85% of the basement suites in Edmonton are illegal/unregistered.
Since we were trying to buy a legal up/down duplex, this was of great concern. We would look at the online tax assessments to see if the property was listed as "with suite," and of course 99% were not. However, one year ago we purchased an illegal up/down and legalized it. I just checked on the tax assessment website and it is still listed as "single family," no suite. So now I wonder how many of those other properties are actually legally-suited.
I also tried calling 311 and the operator said that they had no way of accessing that information. The homeowner could perform a "records search" and should be able to confirm legality, but a third party cannot.
Now we are in buying mode again and I still find it very difficult to confirm that a property is legally-suited. The vendors often say it is, but I need the documentation to confirm.
And a lot of time can be wasted looking at illegal suites in the meantime.
Regards,
Sherilynn
Since we were trying to buy a legal up/down duplex, this was of great concern. We would look at the online tax assessments to see if the property was listed as "with suite," and of course 99% were not. However, one year ago we purchased an illegal up/down and legalized it. I just checked on the tax assessment website and it is still listed as "single family," no suite. So now I wonder how many of those other properties are actually legally-suited.
I also tried calling 311 and the operator said that they had no way of accessing that information. The homeowner could perform a "records search" and should be able to confirm legality, but a third party cannot.
Now we are in buying mode again and I still find it very difficult to confirm that a property is legally-suited. The vendors often say it is, but I need the documentation to confirm.
And a lot of time can be wasted looking at illegal suites in the meantime.
Regards,
Sherilynn