Canadian Cities - Average Price To Rent Ratio - How does your city stack up?

[wgraham]

From my most recent blog post which you can find in its entirety here.










City






Average Home Price (CMHC 2011 Q2)






Average Rent (CMHC 2 Bedroom)






Ratio










Vancouver






$808,867.00






$1,195.00






0.148%









Calgary



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$412,016.00





$1,069.00






0.259%









Edmonton






$328,695.00






$1,015.00






0.309%









Saskatoon






$310,643.00






$934.00




dding-left: 0px;">0.301%







Winnipeg






$243,977.00






$837.00






0.343%










Toronto






$476,386.00






$1,123.00






0.236%









Ottawa






$354,524.00



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$1,048.00





0.296%









Hamilton






$339,828.00






$862.00






0.254%










Montreal






$323,785.00






$680.00






0.210%







: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px;">Halifax




$269,605.00






$891.00






0.330%









Canada






$372,700.00






$860.00






0.231%














Don't be one of those investors that just looks at the numbers but I thought these were interesting! How does your city stack up?

 

[Rickson9]

[quote user=wgraham] Don't be one of those investors that just looks at the numbers but I thought these were interesting! How does your city stack up?





My market is the U.S., specifically Phoenix, AZ. Price-to-rent stands at approximately 12 using median data.



http://www.deptofnumbers.com/affordability/arizona/phoenix/

 

[housingrental]

It'd be nice to see something like average rent for average home.... or average price of 2 bedroom vs average rent of 2 bedroom... as the ratio's posted aren't particularly useful

 

[wgraham]

Im offended Adam! If you can find that data across the country I would love to see you publish it. In the mean time this is a relevant and consistant comparison for the major cities.

 

[housingrental]

This was not a swipe at you... but I assume you know this...

The data above, unfortunately, is not meaningful.... as the house price and apartment price do not always follow from city to city in proportion... and therefor comparing an apartments average rent to average house price is not too helpful.....



[quote user=wgraham]Im offended Adam! If you can find that data across the country I would love to see you publish it. In the mean time this is a relevant and consistant comparison for the major cities.

 

[RedlineBrett]

You can get that data you just need a particularly shrewd real estate agent to get you the stats you need.



The trouble is each local board reports their averages with different inclusions and this can change over time as new management of these boards are elected and new people take over their stats departments.



This is why I stopped tracking statistics of sales prices in Calgary. There were several years where okotoks and airdrie were included in the numbers and also several years where mobile homes were included and then they were taken out again shortly after. Getting 'apples to apples' numbers is more difficult than it seems.



In order to accurately compare nationwide sales figures you need a specific property type and you need to know that the sample size is consistent over the timeframe you are evaluating.

 

[orei]

I have to agree with Adam; that the value of these numbers is questionable. Statistically speaking, the raw data would need to be investigated to ensure that there is some sense of homogeneity (ie. outliers such as luxury units should be removed). As well, if you're using rent for 2-bedroom (condos or houses) the house price point should reflect this.



I think that this approach is definitely from around 30,000 feet - and should be used as such. Anyways, I don't think the sophisticated investors of REIN will rely ONLY on data like this to find their next target area .

 

[kir]

Thanks for the reference to the department of numbers....



I was looking at cities that had an increase in value....IT seems like Grand Rapids, MI saw a 23% increased for 2011 (median price is about 111K) . Then I google the average rent apartment rental in Grand Rapids, which is about 600-800/month. So this would produce a Gross rent Multiplier of about 12...similar to Phoenix, I guess. Based on these initial numbers, Grand Rapids seem to be an excellent place to invest. Am I wrong?





Kir.

 

[housingrental]

Thank you OREI good post

Good post from Brett too

Wade - What interests you about this data?

 

[JimWhitelaw]

Data has value to the extent that it helps to make better decisions. What question does this data help to answer?



I suggest the question is "How can I drive more traffic to my blog and get some cheap google-juice?".

 

[Rickson9]

Tough crowd.

 

[wgraham]

WOW Tough Crowd is right...



Guys this is consistant and relevant data. Average house price vs 2 bedroom rent. Yes I know that not all houses have 2 bedrooms and that you can often get more rent but the fact of the matter is this....its consistant data that can be compared across the country.



It is a great view of affordability and as such Vancouver looks like crap and Edm, Winterpeg and others look great! Something we all know so I don't see how it is irrelevant.



I put up a challenge! If any of you can find more relavent data across the country I will concede to the "google juice" comment!



Until then some of you are just arguing for the sake of arguing....as per usual!

 

[Thomas Beyer]

If you stick your neck out, people will aim for it, Wade. Get used to it. You've progressed real well over the last year or 2. Shoulder on ! Keep up the great work ! Once you create, people will critique it .. Or clone it. Take it as a compliment either way !

 

[AlisonKeighan]

Hey Wade,

I do think the ratios are interesting, just for ballpark comparisons. Thanks for your contribution.

Alison

 

[GaryW]

I guess it's easier to criticize, than find the good in everything. Great advice & Great post by Thomas!



My 2 cents worth...........Not all investors/partners live in Canada and this is just another piece for them to look at. Yes , I realize they still have to see the economic fundamentals along with the deal.

Good on ya Wade,

Gary

 

[2ndstory]

Thanks for the info Wade. I am not surprised to see Winnipeg at the top of that list. I am a firm believer that Winnipeg holds huge opportunies for cashflow and steady growth.



Not sure why certain individuals on here need to have a negative comment on any and every post that's ever made, but I guess it is a role they feel is somehow necessary.



Nik

 

[JimWhitelaw]

[quote user=wgraham]I put up a challenge! If any of you can find more relavent data across the country I will concede to the "google juice" comment!
I submit that the RBC housing affordability report and the CMHC housing starts/absorption report are both more relevant to investors than the apples to oranges comparison of apartment rents to average house prices.



Actually, what I meant to say is that as a sophisticated real estate investor, I maintain a list of several important sources for key economic indicators that are useful and relevant to the Edmonton market, because specializing in a specific area and type of property is an important part of building a successful real estate investment portfolio.

 

[housingrental]

JimWhitelaw



Wow I'm shocked to read that



Since when did you become a negative Nancy?



Weren't you always a gracious Gertrude?



Why the hate for topic starter Wade? Maybe he just wants to "share" and "help others"







[quote user=JimWhitelaw]Data has value to the extent that it helps to make better decisions. What question does this data help to answer?



I suggest the question is "How can I drive more traffic to my blog and get some cheap google-juice?".

 

[housingrental]

Coming from Rickson9?



[quote user=Rickson9]Tough crowd.

 

[housingrental]

There is no good in this data. It should be of no use to a real estate investor.



Without context provided it can harm.



When someone takes time and effort to market information that could potentially mislead and harm others you'd prefer they be congratulated? Or others warned?











[quote user=GJWCA] I guess it's easier to criticize, than find the good in everything. Great advice & Great post by Thomas!



My 2 cents worth...........Not all investors/partners live in Canada and this is just another piece for them to look at. Yes , I realize they still have to see the economic fundamentals along with the deal.

Good on ya Wade,

Gary