I benefited from a college level corporate finance class and a university level project economics class but I had to take them and that`s a bit of overkill in my opinion.
You will be much better served with some commission sales experience! You are going to be selling things at every turn so getting confident in sales will help you much more than any high level classroom education will... in my opinion anyway.
You will be much better served with some commission sales experience! You are going to be selling things at every turn so getting confident in sales will help you much more than any high level classroom education will... in my opinion anyway.
Investment real estate ownership is indeed a business. Any good solid hands-on business experience you have will be transferrable to this business and will give you a leg up. Your learning curve will be very steep at first.
So determine what areas of your business you will be responsible for and study which of those areas you are not experienced/knowledgable in.
Also consider joining REIN - it covers much of what you will need to learn.
So determine what areas of your business you will be responsible for and study which of those areas you are not experienced/knowledgable in.
Also consider joining REIN - it covers much of what you will need to learn.
If you plan on making real estate a big part of your life, consider becoming a realtor. You will be involved or have the opportunity to involved with every aspect associated to real estate. Plus, if your sales skills are good and your in a strong market, you can do well just being a realtor.
Course wise, if your going to invest in Ontario, take the tenant protection course offered at many colleges...you`ll be glad you did.
Course wise, if your going to invest in Ontario, take the tenant protection course offered at many colleges...you`ll be glad you did.
Most general business courses will be of minimal direct benefit to you. They`ll help you have a better understanding of the world though.
Assuming something more academic then REIN is what you want (?) the best return to time to dollars would be a course on rta and property management (thing through REIC or Humber College)... there`s also assessment courses through Seneca available... What do you do / want to do?
Assuming something more academic then REIN is what you want (?) the best return to time to dollars would be a course on rta and property management (thing through REIC or Humber College)... there`s also assessment courses through Seneca available... What do you do / want to do?
QUOTE (JoefromTO @ Sep 24 2009, 12:06 PM) If you plan on making real estate a big part of your life, consider becoming a realtor. You will be involved or have the opportunity to involved with every aspect associated to real estate. Plus, if your sales skills are good and your in a strong market, you can do well just being a realtor.
Course wise, if your going to invest in Ontario, take the tenant protection course offered at many colleges...you`ll be glad you did.
Thanks for your opinion
Course wise, if your going to invest in Ontario, take the tenant protection course offered at many colleges...you`ll be glad you did.
Thanks for your opinion
QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Sep 24 2009, 11:24 AM) Investment real estate ownership is indeed a business. Any good solid hands-on business experience you have will be transferrable to this business and will give you a leg up. Your learning curve will be very steep at first.
So determine what areas of your business you will be responsible for and study which of those areas you are not experienced/knowledgable in.
Also consider joining REIN - it covers much of what you will need to learn.
Thanks for your opinion
So determine what areas of your business you will be responsible for and study which of those areas you are not experienced/knowledgable in.
Also consider joining REIN - it covers much of what you will need to learn.
Thanks for your opinion
A business degree is applicable but as far as useful topics?
Economics, marketing, psychology, sociology, English, math/statistics, accounting, webdesign/computer science.
Really, whatever you take at an undergraduate (college or batchelor`s) level isn`t actually teaching you anything except the ability to find, process and communicate information. Take something you enjoy independent of the money. Everything else will follow.
Economics, marketing, psychology, sociology, English, math/statistics, accounting, webdesign/computer science.
Really, whatever you take at an undergraduate (college or batchelor`s) level isn`t actually teaching you anything except the ability to find, process and communicate information. Take something you enjoy independent of the money. Everything else will follow.
I gave it more thought last night regarding this question, but first some more thoughts. Before I invested in real estate (rental properties as opposed to primary residence) I knew next to nothing about the business. I read alot of books, spoke to alot of people, met with alot of real estate agents (most don`t know much about the successful way of investing in rentals...they just use cap rates), saw alot of properties, etc...
When I bought my first investment property, I had a HUGE learning curve, from day 1!. From making the mental decision to actually move forward and put an offer in...the ball starts rolling and if you have never experienced it before, its one of the most scary things to have to deal with. I didn`t have alot of support(like REIN), nor did I have a team...or at least I didn`t think so. However, I did use a mortgage broker that I knew well(broker), consulted with my fathers accountant (accountant), set everything up with my fathers lawyer (lawyer), called a building inspector I had known for years who is very competent and has many years experience(inspector). I played the part of the real estate agent and have been playing the part of property manager since then(realtor and property manager).
To be honest, once you learn what to look for in a property and what town to invest in, the hardest part of the business is managing the business, because its on your mind 24/7. Once you`ve purchased a property, the financial info and everything else you did up to the point of purchase can be filled, only to pull out when needed. If your new to being a landlord, dealing with tenants from screen to handling issues will be a test to your ability to manage people. Once you`ve been doing it a while, it will slowly become less of a concern...like anything in life.
I run a collision facility in the heart of Toronto where we cater to mostly high end vehicles. Most of my customers are professionals like lawyers, CEO`s, CFO`s, etc. Iv`e spoken to many of them over the years about real estate investing and most have said they would NEVER do it...its a pain the a...These people are more educated than the average Joe, yet they have no interest in real estate investing.
The point I`m getting at is, courses and education won`t help you much...you need to become a landlord and deal with all the issues that come up. Its the only true teacher. You will be tested countless times to the point where you will probably want to just sell what bought, even at a loss, just to get the heck out of the business...BUT! if your smart enough to realize why your being stressed, its probably 100% your own fault to begin with. Poor tenant screening is IMO, the #1 reason for stress in this business. This is why its important to factor in vacancy when calculating the oppertating expenses. If you haven`t found a quality tenant by the time the current tenant moves out and you risk having an empty apartment for a month, leave it empty! It`s cheaper than putting the wrong tenant in. This should help to establish how much money should be put into the property initially, to ensure you aren`t strained to much in the event of a vacancy. 3 months rent in the account will help sleep at night, etc...You have to be conservative to some extent. You have to use an application form and screening procedures that help you almost eliminate the "bad" tenants to begin with. This will help ensure you have a much much better experience with the business.
So, if you buy right (numbers), and have a quality place to rent...not scummy...nice! and you screen really well, and follow the rules set out in the province you invest in, you will find that the business isnt so hard...but it does require time...your time.
One last piece of advice... do NOT higher a property manager right away. Factor in the cost, but manage your own property(ies) for at least 5 years, or until you feel you really understand how to be a landlord. Then and only then should you hire a property manager because its only then that you can actually KNOW if the property manager is doing his/her job well. This last part is my opinion and some members might disagree...thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
When I bought my first investment property, I had a HUGE learning curve, from day 1!. From making the mental decision to actually move forward and put an offer in...the ball starts rolling and if you have never experienced it before, its one of the most scary things to have to deal with. I didn`t have alot of support(like REIN), nor did I have a team...or at least I didn`t think so. However, I did use a mortgage broker that I knew well(broker), consulted with my fathers accountant (accountant), set everything up with my fathers lawyer (lawyer), called a building inspector I had known for years who is very competent and has many years experience(inspector). I played the part of the real estate agent and have been playing the part of property manager since then(realtor and property manager).
To be honest, once you learn what to look for in a property and what town to invest in, the hardest part of the business is managing the business, because its on your mind 24/7. Once you`ve purchased a property, the financial info and everything else you did up to the point of purchase can be filled, only to pull out when needed. If your new to being a landlord, dealing with tenants from screen to handling issues will be a test to your ability to manage people. Once you`ve been doing it a while, it will slowly become less of a concern...like anything in life.
I run a collision facility in the heart of Toronto where we cater to mostly high end vehicles. Most of my customers are professionals like lawyers, CEO`s, CFO`s, etc. Iv`e spoken to many of them over the years about real estate investing and most have said they would NEVER do it...its a pain the a...These people are more educated than the average Joe, yet they have no interest in real estate investing.
The point I`m getting at is, courses and education won`t help you much...you need to become a landlord and deal with all the issues that come up. Its the only true teacher. You will be tested countless times to the point where you will probably want to just sell what bought, even at a loss, just to get the heck out of the business...BUT! if your smart enough to realize why your being stressed, its probably 100% your own fault to begin with. Poor tenant screening is IMO, the #1 reason for stress in this business. This is why its important to factor in vacancy when calculating the oppertating expenses. If you haven`t found a quality tenant by the time the current tenant moves out and you risk having an empty apartment for a month, leave it empty! It`s cheaper than putting the wrong tenant in. This should help to establish how much money should be put into the property initially, to ensure you aren`t strained to much in the event of a vacancy. 3 months rent in the account will help sleep at night, etc...You have to be conservative to some extent. You have to use an application form and screening procedures that help you almost eliminate the "bad" tenants to begin with. This will help ensure you have a much much better experience with the business.
So, if you buy right (numbers), and have a quality place to rent...not scummy...nice! and you screen really well, and follow the rules set out in the province you invest in, you will find that the business isnt so hard...but it does require time...your time.
One last piece of advice... do NOT higher a property manager right away. Factor in the cost, but manage your own property(ies) for at least 5 years, or until you feel you really understand how to be a landlord. Then and only then should you hire a property manager because its only then that you can actually KNOW if the property manager is doing his/her job well. This last part is my opinion and some members might disagree...thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Joe`s reply is greatly detailed and I agree with most of that. As for the others who posted, business courses and maybe some specific real estate courses willhelp you gain specific information, but you can learn a lot on your own; in your own comfort environment and at your own pace.
From my point of view, nothing is better than actually doing. I have been an entrepreneur my entire life - never held a regular job and have started more than 4 companies. They were not HUGE companies, but they all reached the goals I set. Each time I started a new company, I "jumped ship". I did not slowly move from one to other. That meant income one day and zero the next. If I was not successful, then I would be in deep trouble.
That experience and attitude is who I am today. I have no fear of what market conditions throw at me or not having $20 in my wallet this week because I`ve been without for longer periods than that. I may not be the smartest business person, but I know there is always a way to make things work - finding that option is part of the learning process.
I learned ONE thing when I began studying business at age 16...you can`t do it alone. I remember one particular point from a home study course I invested my last 500 dollars into at that time: people with no formal business education that became rich had one thing in common...they could all read, find the information they were looking for and hire professionals to do what they didn`t know how to do.
You have to manage your business from the top level and understand what you do well and what you need help on, that will only come from actually trying it. Failing at something is growth and is part of every entrepreneur`s journey. Sometimes it`s not fun, but when you look back it was always worth the lesson.
It is very overwhelming to have a business structure taught to you and then expect to put on the entrepreneur hat to carry the whole thing.
My advice is to start reading a few simple business books until one `clicks`. You can expand on that and you will be on your way.
It is the same when I jumped from one career to this new real estate career. I read a dozen books to get my head around it, went to a few seminars and finally settled on REIN. From there I applied my years of running companies to this business. BUT, there was and still is soooo many areas that I need help on. I hired the right people to do the things I don`t know or want to do.
At very least, ask questions because "He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever." Chinese Proverb
Good luck and welcome to your new journey!!!!
From my point of view, nothing is better than actually doing. I have been an entrepreneur my entire life - never held a regular job and have started more than 4 companies. They were not HUGE companies, but they all reached the goals I set. Each time I started a new company, I "jumped ship". I did not slowly move from one to other. That meant income one day and zero the next. If I was not successful, then I would be in deep trouble.
That experience and attitude is who I am today. I have no fear of what market conditions throw at me or not having $20 in my wallet this week because I`ve been without for longer periods than that. I may not be the smartest business person, but I know there is always a way to make things work - finding that option is part of the learning process.
I learned ONE thing when I began studying business at age 16...you can`t do it alone. I remember one particular point from a home study course I invested my last 500 dollars into at that time: people with no formal business education that became rich had one thing in common...they could all read, find the information they were looking for and hire professionals to do what they didn`t know how to do.
You have to manage your business from the top level and understand what you do well and what you need help on, that will only come from actually trying it. Failing at something is growth and is part of every entrepreneur`s journey. Sometimes it`s not fun, but when you look back it was always worth the lesson.
It is very overwhelming to have a business structure taught to you and then expect to put on the entrepreneur hat to carry the whole thing.
My advice is to start reading a few simple business books until one `clicks`. You can expand on that and you will be on your way.
It is the same when I jumped from one career to this new real estate career. I read a dozen books to get my head around it, went to a few seminars and finally settled on REIN. From there I applied my years of running companies to this business. BUT, there was and still is soooo many areas that I need help on. I hired the right people to do the things I don`t know or want to do.
At very least, ask questions because "He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever." Chinese Proverb
Good luck and welcome to your new journey!!!!
Wow. Some great insight in this topic.
As far as the "becoming a Realtor", that`s an additional business to whatever endeavor. Just being a Realtor does not make you an expert at Real Estate Investing. I happen to have knowledge because of my own personal experiences as an Investor/Landlord and previous business career choices as well as education.
I`m sure most of you agree that when it comes to your investment choices, Don and team has taught us all what to look for when having a Realtor on our team. Having a License doesn`t mean anything if you don`t know what you`re talking about.
As far as the "becoming a Realtor", that`s an additional business to whatever endeavor. Just being a Realtor does not make you an expert at Real Estate Investing. I happen to have knowledge because of my own personal experiences as an Investor/Landlord and previous business career choices as well as education.
I`m sure most of you agree that when it comes to your investment choices, Don and team has taught us all what to look for when having a Realtor on our team. Having a License doesn`t mean anything if you don`t know what you`re talking about.
Thanks Joe, that`s interesting. What do these CEOs invest in then? I imagine complex financial instruments like derivatives and the like.[
quote name=`JoefromTO` date=`Sep 25 2009, 08:28 AM` post=`66381`]
I gave it more thought last night regarding this question, but first some more thoughts. Before I invested in real estate (rental properties as opposed to primary residence) I knew next to nothing about the business. I read alot of books, spoke to alot of people, met with alot of real estate agents (most don`t know much about the successful way of investing in rentals...they just use cap rates), saw alot of properties, etc...
When I bought my first investment property, I had a HUGE learning curve, from day 1!. From making the mental decision to actually move forward and put an offer in...the ball starts rolling and if you have never experienced it before, its one of the most scary things to have to deal with. I didn`t have alot of support(like REIN), nor did I have a team...or at least I didn`t think so. However, I did use a mortgage broker that I knew well(broker), consulted with my fathers accountant (accountant), set everything up with my fathers lawyer (lawyer), called a building inspector I had known for years who is very competent and has many years experience(inspector). I played the part of the real estate agent and have been playing the part of property manager since then(realtor and property manager).
To be honest, once you learn what to look for in a property and what town to invest in, the hardest part of the business is managing the business, because its on your mind 24/7. Once you`ve purchased a property, the financial info and everything else you did up to the point of purchase can be filled, only to pull out when needed. If your new to being a landlord, dealing with tenants from screen to handling issues will be a test to your ability to manage people. Once you`ve been doing it a while, it will slowly become less of a concern...like anything in life.
I run a collision facility in the heart of Toronto where we cater to mostly high end vehicles. Most of my customers are professionals like lawyers, CEO`s, CFO`s, etc. Iv`e spoken to many of them over the years about real estate investing and most have said they would NEVER do it...its a pain the a...These people are more educated than the average Joe, yet they have no interest in real estate investing.
The point I`m getting at is, courses and education won`t help you much...you need to become a landlord and deal with all the issues that come up. Its the only true teacher. You will be tested countless times to the point where you will probably want to just sell what bought, even at a loss, just to get the heck out of the business...BUT! if your smart enough to realize why your being stressed, its probably 100% your own fault to begin with. Poor tenant screening is IMO, the #1 reason for stress in this business. This is why its important to factor in vacancy when calculating the oppertating expenses. If you haven`t found a quality tenant by the time the current tenant moves out and you risk having an empty apartment for a month, leave it empty! It`s cheaper than putting the wrong tenant in. This should help to establish how much money should be put into the property initially, to ensure you aren`t strained to much in the event of a vacancy. 3 months rent in the account will help sleep at night, etc...You have to be conservative to some extent. You have to use an application form and screening procedures that help you almost eliminate the "bad" tenants to begin with. This will help ensure you have a much much better experience with the business.
So, if you buy right (numbers), and have a quality place to rent...not scummy...nice! and you screen really well, and follow the rules set out in the province you invest in, you will find that the business isnt so hard...but it does require time...your time.
One last piece of advice... do NOT higher a property manager right away. Factor in the cost, but manage your own property(ies) for at least 5 years, or until you feel you really understand how to be a landlord. Then and only then should you hire a property manager because its only then that you can actually KNOW if the property manager is doing his/her job well. This last part is my opinion and some members might disagree...thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
quote name=`JoefromTO` date=`Sep 25 2009, 08:28 AM` post=`66381`]
I gave it more thought last night regarding this question, but first some more thoughts. Before I invested in real estate (rental properties as opposed to primary residence) I knew next to nothing about the business. I read alot of books, spoke to alot of people, met with alot of real estate agents (most don`t know much about the successful way of investing in rentals...they just use cap rates), saw alot of properties, etc...
When I bought my first investment property, I had a HUGE learning curve, from day 1!. From making the mental decision to actually move forward and put an offer in...the ball starts rolling and if you have never experienced it before, its one of the most scary things to have to deal with. I didn`t have alot of support(like REIN), nor did I have a team...or at least I didn`t think so. However, I did use a mortgage broker that I knew well(broker), consulted with my fathers accountant (accountant), set everything up with my fathers lawyer (lawyer), called a building inspector I had known for years who is very competent and has many years experience(inspector). I played the part of the real estate agent and have been playing the part of property manager since then(realtor and property manager).
To be honest, once you learn what to look for in a property and what town to invest in, the hardest part of the business is managing the business, because its on your mind 24/7. Once you`ve purchased a property, the financial info and everything else you did up to the point of purchase can be filled, only to pull out when needed. If your new to being a landlord, dealing with tenants from screen to handling issues will be a test to your ability to manage people. Once you`ve been doing it a while, it will slowly become less of a concern...like anything in life.
I run a collision facility in the heart of Toronto where we cater to mostly high end vehicles. Most of my customers are professionals like lawyers, CEO`s, CFO`s, etc. Iv`e spoken to many of them over the years about real estate investing and most have said they would NEVER do it...its a pain the a...These people are more educated than the average Joe, yet they have no interest in real estate investing.
The point I`m getting at is, courses and education won`t help you much...you need to become a landlord and deal with all the issues that come up. Its the only true teacher. You will be tested countless times to the point where you will probably want to just sell what bought, even at a loss, just to get the heck out of the business...BUT! if your smart enough to realize why your being stressed, its probably 100% your own fault to begin with. Poor tenant screening is IMO, the #1 reason for stress in this business. This is why its important to factor in vacancy when calculating the oppertating expenses. If you haven`t found a quality tenant by the time the current tenant moves out and you risk having an empty apartment for a month, leave it empty! It`s cheaper than putting the wrong tenant in. This should help to establish how much money should be put into the property initially, to ensure you aren`t strained to much in the event of a vacancy. 3 months rent in the account will help sleep at night, etc...You have to be conservative to some extent. You have to use an application form and screening procedures that help you almost eliminate the "bad" tenants to begin with. This will help ensure you have a much much better experience with the business.
So, if you buy right (numbers), and have a quality place to rent...not scummy...nice! and you screen really well, and follow the rules set out in the province you invest in, you will find that the business isnt so hard...but it does require time...your time.
One last piece of advice... do NOT higher a property manager right away. Factor in the cost, but manage your own property(ies) for at least 5 years, or until you feel you really understand how to be a landlord. Then and only then should you hire a property manager because its only then that you can actually KNOW if the property manager is doing his/her job well. This last part is my opinion and some members might disagree...thats ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Hi Adam,
I haven`t bought my first property yet, as I`m getting the down payment and facts together.
I`m taking George Brown`s real estate investing course run by Jim Colbert and I think it`s great. It`s a night course with three hour class time each week. The first half of the class is review of his course book and theory and the second half is a review of properties we`re all looking at. Jim really knows his stuff and we`ve really torn through some properties, both commercial and residential, that looked promising at first.
Sort of a what`s behind the curtain motivation for why it`s being sold etc.
For $300 or so, I`d say that`s your best bet as an introductory step.
Steve
I haven`t bought my first property yet, as I`m getting the down payment and facts together.
I`m taking George Brown`s real estate investing course run by Jim Colbert and I think it`s great. It`s a night course with three hour class time each week. The first half of the class is review of his course book and theory and the second half is a review of properties we`re all looking at. Jim really knows his stuff and we`ve really torn through some properties, both commercial and residential, that looked promising at first.
Sort of a what`s behind the curtain motivation for why it`s being sold etc.
For $300 or so, I`d say that`s your best bet as an introductory step.
Steve