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QUOTE (fumbrunner @ Feb 11 2010, 09:36 AM) I`m not sure that is the greatest analogy. The used car saleman essentially own the title on the vehicles and is not selling the vehicles on behalf of anyone. But that is beside the point.

What I would like to ask the realtors on this board is: Do you think the amount of work that you put into a given sale justifies commissions in the neighbourhood of 20-30K per transaction (as is the case in many instances). That is the crux of the discussion and is what has caused these challenges to be brought forward.

Right now there are 4354, oops 4355 active listed residences in Calgary. Average list price: $509K. High end houses and new condos are though sales these days.
Over the last 30 days, 1946 properties were conditionally sold or unconditionally. Average list price: $404K and actuallu sale price: $393K Average days on market before sold or conditionally sold: 41 days.

So, average sales commission was: $7000 plus 3.5% over 393-100=292 or $10220. Total commission is 17,220

To be divided more or less equally between buyer and seller`s realtor, i.e. around $8,600.

Where are the $20,000 to $30,000 commissions?

Realtor`s cost for office, memberships, car, etc. Say $2000 per month. Say a full time starting realtor would like to make $70,000 per year income before property taxes for which he/she works day/nights, weekends and stat holidays (because that is when buyers look. How many deals went at 11:00 pm at somebodies kitchen table with realtor`s parked down the street to make multiple offers by frantic customers? (I don`t complain - just trying to show the facts).

So that realtor would have to sell 70,000/6,400 = 11 houses per year or a roughly 1 property per month. I showed you earlier, there are the 20% or 1000 sales machines that sell 1600 houses in a month and 4000 realtors that sell 0.1 house per month. So the top guys with 20plus year experience they sell 1.6 hous per month or 19.2 houses per year making $123,000 per year while the rest makes on average $640 per month.

So you tell me if commissions are too high!
 
Good analogy.

And I still would buy from the dealer for a lot of reasons.



Also would not let just anybody into my house. Agents bring prospects, not somebody from the street.

It's the whole system in work when you sell through the brokerage.






QUOTE (TheVancouverMarket @ Feb 11 2010, 10:06 AM)
Someone gave me a wonderful analogy the other day regarding this issue:



Imagined you owned a successful second hand car lot and you were in the business of selling cars. You would have significant fixed and variable costs to run your business (rents, sales, marketing costs etc). You would have invested over the years considerable time, energy and money in the business. Perhaps you are the only car seller in a 100km radius. But then John Doe comes along and says to the owner of the car business and says:



"I am just gonna park my used car right here at the front of your sales lot. I feel like selling it. Hope you don't mind. Oh and here's $99. My contact numbers on the front windscreen, so I don't need anyone from you company to help me. Buyers can just call me direct. Thanks. See you later"



Is that a fair analogy ?



Personally, I am very excited by the fact that this issue is front and centre and all over the news and I think it's very important that there is so much discussion around the subject. Lots of good things will come out of it for realtors and consumers.
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 11:32 AM)
Right now there are 4354, oops 4355 active listed residences in Calgary. Average list price: $509K. High end houses and new condos are though sales these days.

Over the last 30 days, 1946 properties were conditionally sold or unconditionally. Average list price: $404K and actuallu sale price: $393K Average days on market before sold or conditionally sold: 41 days.



So, average sales commission was: $7000 plus 3.5% over 393-100=292 or $10220. Total commission is 17,220



To be divided more or less equally between buyer and seller's realtor, i.e. around $8,600.



Where are the $20,000 to $30,000 commissions?



Realtor's cost for office, memberships, car, etc. Say $2000 per month. Say a full time starting realtor would like to make $70,000 per year income before property taxes for which he/she works day/nights, weekends and stat holidays (because that is when buyers look. How many deals went at 11:00 pm at somebodies kitchen table with realtor's parked down the street to make multiple offers by frantic customers? (I don't complain - just trying to show the facts).



So that realtor would have to sell 70,000/6,400 = 11 houses per year or a roughly 1 property per month. I showed you earlier, there are the 20% or 1000 sales machines that sell 1600 houses in a month and 4000 realtors that sell 0.1 house per month. So the top guys with 20plus year experience they sell 1.6 hous per month or 19.2 houses per year making $123,000 per year while the rest makes on average $640 per month.



So you tell me if commissions are too high!




Sorry if I am upsetting you with my comments. It sounds like it and it wasn't my intention. But yes, I do feel that 17K from a seller's perspective is too high. That is an incredible amount of money . I understand that you are coming at it from a realtor's perspective and I appreciate that. But as a seller, 20K for a real estate transaction is alot of money. Unfortunately for realtors, the number of realtors have increased tremendously over the last few years and obviously that will impact the number of homes available for sale per realtor. But that's a you problem (or more correctly a CREA problem). Sellers are not at fault for the proliferation of realtors in recent years.



I'm not even sure why I am in this debate at all as I am a buyer and not a seller.
<
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 10:32 AM) Right now there are 4354, oops 4355 active listed residences in Calgary. Average list price: $509K. High end houses and new condos are though sales these days.
Over the last 30 days, 1946 properties were conditionally sold or unconditionally. Average list price: $404K and actuallu sale price: $393K Average days on market before sold or conditionally sold: 41 days.

So, average sales commission was: $7000 plus 3.5% over 393-100=292 or $10220. Total commission is 17,220

To be divided more or less equally between buyer and seller`s realtor, i.e. around $8,600.

Where are the $20,000 to $30,000 commissions?

Realtor`s cost for office, memberships, car, etc. Say $2000 per month. Say a full time starting realtor would like to make $70,000 per year income before property taxes for which he/she works day/nights, weekends and stat holidays (because that is when buyers look. How many deals went at 11:00 pm at somebodies kitchen table with realtor`s parked down the street to make multiple offers by frantic customers? (I don`t complain - just trying to show the facts).

So that realtor would have to sell 70,000/6,400 = 11 houses per year or a roughly 1 property per month. I showed you earlier, there are the 20% or 1000 sales machines that sell 1600 houses in a month and 4000 realtors that sell 0.1 house per month. So the top guys with 20plus year experience they sell 1.6 hous per month or 19.2 houses per year making $123,000 per year while the rest makes on average $640 per month.

So you tell me if commissions are too high!

$17,220 is too much on a $400M transaction, anyone can tell you that - that`s a fact -. Sounds like a problem of too many realtors in the market, however you`re omitting an important detail, there are many realtors that are part time (I don`t know the percentage) and use real estate to supplement their regular income. You can not use raw data to make these kinds of comparisions, so I have a hard time sympathizing with the "starving realtor" who only sells 1 property / month. I`ve heard this explanation many times before and I don`t buy it.
 
QUOTE (fumbrunner @ Feb 11 2010, 10:59 AM)
Sorry if I am upsetting you with my comments. It sounds like it and it wasn't my intention. But yes, I do feel that 17K from a seller's perspective is too high. That is an incredible amount of money . I understand that you are coming at it from a realtor's perspective and I appreciate that. But as a seller, 20K for a real estate transaction is alot of money. Unfortunately for realtors, the number of realtors have increased tremendously over the last few years and obviously that will impact the number of homes available for sale per realtor. But that's a you problem (or more correctly a CREA problem). Sellers are not at fault for the proliferation of realtors in recent years.



I'm not even sure why I am in this debate at all as I am a buyer and not a seller.
<





First of all, I am not upset. I just showed you the numbers. I think you are completely correct in questioning commissions. I would. But I also showed you that for a full time realtor, these commissions are not that far out - they need to live too.



A car dealer charges 30 to 40% mark-up for selling a used car.

A full service stockbroker chargers 1.5% on the sale and purchase of stocks for 10 minutes on the phone and research behind the scenes. Minimum commission $185. Those commissions are in fact higher than real estate commissions especially considering the time involved selling a house. Of course, you can use a discount broker or sell your own car.



The internet has generated this attitude that everything should be for free. Unfortunately, that doesn't work always.



Yes, commissions are high for a seller, but he/she doesn't have to sell with a realtor as many times pointed out. So it is up to the seller to determine how much he is willing to pay for marketing his property. Most seem to feel that having a realtor is worth the commissions, why else pay them?



Still friends? or at leat friendly
<
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 12:31 PM)
First of all, I am not upset. I just showed you the numbers. I think you are completely correct in questioning commissions. I would. But I also showed you that for a full time realtor, these commissions are not that far out - they need to live too.



A car dealer charges 30 to 40% mark-up for selling a used car.

A full service stockbroker chargers 1.5% on the sale and purchase of stocks for 10 minutes on the phone and research behind the scenes. Minimum commission $185. Those commissions are in fact higher than real estate commissions especially considering the time involved selling a house. Of course, you can use a discount broker or sell your own car.



The internet has generated this attitude that everything should be for free. Unfortunately, that doesn't work always.



Yes, commissions are high for a seller, but he/she doesn't have to sell with a realtor as many times pointed out. So it is up to the seller to determine how much he is willing to pay for marketing his property. Most seem to feel that having a realtor is worth the commissions, why else pay them?



Still friends? or at leat friendly
<





Of course still friends! This is all healthy debate and hopefully there will be fruitful discussions between CREA and the CB. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. BTW, you asked my name in a previous post. It's Gerry.
 
QUOTE (JDaley @ Feb 11 2010, 11:23 AM)
$17,220 is too much on a $400M transaction, anyone can tell you that - that's a fact -. Sounds like a problem of too many realtors in the market, however you're omitting an important detail, there are many realtors that are part time (I don't know the percentage) and use real estate to supplement their regular income. You can not use raw data to make these kinds of comparisions, so I have a hard time sympathizing with the "starving realtor" who only sells 1 property / month. I've heard this explanation many times before and I don't buy it.






You're right about the part timers. But even the top 20% of the realtors make only $123K. Compare that to a 20 year experienced geologist, engineer or lawyer - minimum $200K plus benefits (e.g. options) - at least in the oil patch. So it just depends on your perspective. I have fun doing real estate and am semi-retired. Working as a part time geologist consultant I make lots more than a budding realtor. FYI my consulting rates as a geologist with 25 yrs plus experience is right now $1000 per day. A lawyer is $450 per billable hour. A construction supervisor in the field charges $300 per hour plus expenses - and they often 'double dip' i.e. do two projects simultaneous (not allowed but they do). So go figure!



What do you pay a plumber? $95 per hour including travel time.
 
QUOTE (fumbrunner @ Feb 11 2010, 11:38 AM)
Of course still friends! This is all healthy debate and hopefully there will be fruitful discussions between CREA and the CB. There has to be a happy medium somewhere. BTW, you asked my name in a previous post. It's Gerry.






Thanks Gerry,



And in spite of my sometimes feisty tone, I love yakking on this forum.
 
QUOTE (fumbrunner @ Feb 11 2010, 10:59 AM)
Sorry if I am upsetting you with my comments. It sounds like it and it wasn't my intention. But yes, I do feel that 17K from a seller's perspective is too high. That is an incredible amount of money . I understand that you are coming at it from a realtor's perspective and I appreciate that. But as a seller, 20K for a real estate transaction is alot of money. Unfortunately for realtors, the number of realtors have increased tremendously over the last few years and obviously that will impact the number of homes available for sale per realtor. But that's a you problem (or more correctly a CREA problem). Sellers are not at fault for the proliferation of realtors in recent years.



I'm not even sure why I am in this debate at all as I am a buyer and not a seller.
<





What about the interest you've paid on your $400k loan, or your payout penalty from the bank to get out of your loan if you want to move?



What about the 5%/yr you made on the house when it was worth $500,000? The numbers are big anywhere. That's just inflation!



If you're a buyer you're in an even better position because you get to have your realtor working for you essentially for free. We've seen lots of seller whining but not one person has complained about what they pay their agents on the buy side.. Where all the effort and risk is too I might add.
 
QUOTE (JDaley @ Feb 11 2010, 01:23 PM) $17,220 is too much on a $400M transaction, anyone can tell you that - that`s a fact

Sorry JD, that`s not a fact, that`s an opinion. Even if 90% of the world says that chocolate is better than vanilla, it`s still just an opinion, not a fact. It doesn`t matter how many people believe that chocolate is better, or that the CB is right, they`re both opinions. And mass-held opinions have been wrong many, many times throughout history. (The earth is flat, the sun is the centre of the universe, women aren`t capable of rational thought, climate change is entirely caused by man, climate change is entirely caused by nature, etc.)

However, your other point about lumping part-timers and full-timers together was correct, and needed to be mentioned.

Have a good one, all!

JohnS
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 01:38 PM) You`re right about the part timers. But even the top 20% of the realtors make only $123K. Compare that to a 20 year experienced geologist, engineer or lawyer - minimum $200K plus benefits (e.g. options) - at least in the oil patch. So it just depends on your perspective. I have fun doing real estate and am semi-retired. Working as a part time geologist consultant I make lots more than a budding realtor. FYI my consulting rates as a geologist with 25 yrs plus experience is right now $1000 per day. A lawyer is $450 per billable hour. A construction supervisor in the field charges $300 per hour plus expenses - and they often `double dip` i.e. do two projects simultaneous (not allowed but they do). So go figure!

What do you pay a plumber? $95 per hour including travel time.

And now, as the devil`s advocate...

I would say that there`s still a difference between a geologist/engineer/dentist/lawyer and a realtor. These are officially designated professionals, with years and years of schooling. Realtors don`t require the same level of formal education, and although they do require ongoing education, so do all the others.

Have a good one, all!

JohnS
 
QUOTE (JohnS @ Feb 11 2010, 01:49 PM) And now, as the devil`s advocate...

I would say that there`s still a difference between a geologist/engineer/dentist/lawyer and a realtor. These are officially designated professionals, with years and years of schooling. Realtors don`t require the same level of formal education, and although they do require ongoing education, so do all the others.

Have a good one, all!

JohnS

In Alberta, realtors require professional accreditation and having attended the courses, it is not that easy and it is becoming tougher by the day. The courses are on the curriculum of Mount Royal College now University.

I admit that it is not a 4 year geology or engineering education. And some of the designations such as `Condominium Specialists` earned by following a 3 day course, in my opinion are ludicrous. Yet, if you have 20 years of real estate under the belt, I would say you are an expert and a professional and you deserve to be paid accordingly.

As to beginners, you have a point. But then I don`t expect to earn even close to $123K annually in my first year. BTW a starting geologist`s salary is around $70K plus benefits. I don`t know about lawyers or MBAs.

Oops, just checked. Stock market is up!!! Just made my annual realtor comp.
 
QUOTE (JohnS @ Feb 11 2010, 01:45 PM) Even if 90% of the world says that chocolate is better than vanilla, it`s still just an opinion, not a fact.

Wow, that`s profound, chocolate and vanilla - u really smart guy. Thanks for the tip.
 
QUOTE (JDaley @ Feb 11 2010, 04:44 PM) Wow, that`s profound, chocolate and vanilla - u really smart guy. Thanks for the tip.


Hopefully the lesson wasn`t lost (says the educator in me), but mostly I`m just glad you were able to see my brilliance through my apt use of metaphors to point out the errors in your post.


Just doing what I can to help!

Have a good one, all!

JohnS
 
QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Feb 11 2010, 12:23 PM) If you`re a buyer you`re in an even better position because you get to have your realtor working for you essentially for free. We`ve seen lots of seller whining but not one person has complained about what they pay their agents on the buy side.. Where all the effort and risk is too I might add.

This is a great point. Realtor`s (like all commissioned salespeople) have to make an AVERAGE wage. So they have to blend the way they spend their time. I got an email on my ongoing search with my realtor, went and looked at the property that night, made an offer immediately after, and closed 15 days later. My realtor`s average earnings on the hours spent on that deal are very high.

But once you blend them with the hours she spent working on another potential condo purchase that I looked at twice, negotiated for over a 3 day period with a bank who never called back, and then ultimately didn`t buy because of incompetence on the part of the condo management company revealed in the condo docs, its not such a great deal. Because those hours came with zero pay.

If you average it out, she probably does all right having us as clients. But I get paid by my job, so why shouldn`t realtors?

Michael
 
QUOTE (JohnS @ Feb 11 2010, 03:49 PM) And now, as the devil`s advocate...

I would say that there`s still a difference between a geologist/engineer/dentist/lawyer and a realtor. These are officially designated professionals, with years and years of schooling. Realtors don`t require the same level of formal education, and although they do require ongoing education, so do all the others.

Have a good one, all!

JohnS

Now I`m not saying RE agents can`t provide a quality service, but I do have some beefs with the system as it is.

Agents, whether sellers or buyers have a vested interest in ensuring that the property sells for as much as possible. The more it sells for the most they both get paid. I see that as a conflict of interest for the buyers agent.

What agents see on their version of MLS often hides things that aren`t revealed to the buyer. I believe this goes in the "notes for brokers" section. Things such as "sell by Dec 31 and obtain an extra $2000 commission". I know of someone who recently purchased a condo that had serious noise issues that the realator didn`t tell them about. I also know that the listing agent had a "bonus" in the commission for the purchaser`s agent (presumably because the vendor wanted out quickly). I know Godfried talked about agents getting sued for stuff like this, but it doesn`t happen often, nor would the lawsuit likely be successful (mainly because purchaser can`t demonstrated they suffered financial harm from the non-disclosure).

I`m sure many agents are upstanding individuals, but we all know that the market is flooded with agents and many of them are scumbags looking to make as much $$$ on a transaction at their client`s expense.

And that instant listing email update service Godfried mentioned, all that entails is logging in, ticking off a bunch of search criteria, entering client`s email and clicking save. Agent doesn`t have to do any more searching for the next 3 months when the automated service needs to be renewed. Takes about 5 minutes to do.

I personally think that a change to the system would result in more choice which is better for consumers.

Godfried, I don`t mean you any disrespect. I`m just challenging some of your points.
 
At the end of the day, if a person wants to be successful at Real Estate (I mean REALLY successful...not 100k or 200k but in the 500k to 800k range/yr), they have to step out financially (I know of Realtors have have operating budgets in upwards of 300k/yr) and MASS MARKET!! Regardless of education, if you are a good marketter in Real Estate, you can make ALOT of money. This is unfortunate and definitely had had negative implications on the industry (I have noticed a definite backlash against Realtors on this forum lately).

I would love to see the residential investment industry operated more like the commercial real estate industry...(a la Colliers, DTZ etc...)...where its less about the "agent" and more about the specialized service and buyers/sellers are assisted by the entire office...not the one-man-show with his head up his a**, over-extended and not answering inquiries until 2 or 3 days after it was made.

That said, the realtors that contribute to this site (Godfried, Brett etc...) are NOT the norm...even compared to some of the BIG TIME agents (Terry Paranych in Edmonton comes to mind...). REIN realtors service clients with specific and often sophisticated goals in mind...sometimes a deal can die based on $15/month!! These professionals have specific and "reality based" information pertaining to their trading area. As well, they are equipped with the most sophisticated Real Estate related research data in Canada (maybe North America??).

So when analyzing the industry, its important to make the seperation btw the realtors that contribute on this forum and those that operate in the "regular" Real estate world. Now I don;t have any actual numbers to prove this but I would say that the realtors that contribute on this forum and are REIN members have added millions of dollars in value to their clients over the years...and continue to do so!!

Lucas


QUOTE (JohnS @ Feb 11 2010, 02:49 PM) And now, as the devil`s advocate...

I would say that there`s still a difference between a geologist/engineer/dentist/lawyer and a realtor. These are officially designated professionals, with years and years of schooling. Realtors don`t require the same level of formal education, and although they do require ongoing education, so do all the others.

Have a good one, all!

JohnS
 
QUOTE (OntarioInvestor @ Feb 11 2010, 05:57 PM) Now I`m not saying RE agents can`t provide a quality service, but I do have some beefs with the system as it is.

Agents, whether sellers or buyers have a vested interest in ensuring that the property sells for as much as possible. The more it sells for the most they both get paid. I see that as a conflict of interest for the buyers agent.

What agents see on their version of MLS often hides things that aren`t revealed to the buyer. I believe this goes in the "notes for brokers" section. Things such as "sell by Dec 31 and obtain an extra $2000 commission". I know of someone who recently purchased a condo that had serious noise issues that the realator didn`t tell them about. I also know that the listing agent had a "bonus" in the commission for the purchaser`s agent (presumably because the vendor wanted out quickly). I know Godfried talked about agents getting sued for stuff like this, but it doesn`t happen often, nor would the lawsuit likely be successful (mainly because purchaser can`t demonstrated they suffered financial harm from the non-disclosure).

I`m sure many agents are upstanding individuals, but we all know that the market is flooded with agents and many of them ....

I personally think that a change to the system would result in more choice which is better for consumers.

Godfried, I don`t mean you any disrespect. I`m just challenging some of your points.

No disrespect felt, and although it takes a bit longer to set up the system than 5 minutes, yes it is automated. That is its beauty, you can customize it for your clients` special needs and off you go. Now that we`re so easily get entangled into client fiduciary duties - for sure in Alberta, this is something we can still do without being forced to pull out all these contracts.

As for revealing more sales data? Why should we? The car dealer doesn`t, the Bay doesn`t, Bond traders don`t. Stock brokers don`t other than negotiating a commission.

I never heard somebody ask their stock broker, how much the previous share owner did pay for his/her BCE shares in order to determine how much they should pay. But I guess, some people find that realtors have to show this and... for free or at severely reduced prices. Not even the CB seems to be concerned about this.

The CB is concerned about sellers not having access to MLS for listing their properties unless they adhere to CREA`s rules, which are mostly aimed at ensuring data quality and protecting buyers and sellers from making mistakes. Something they are required to do as part of their fiduciary duties. Kind of like stockbrokers checking whether a client is sophisticated enough to make certain investments, even discount brokers have to do so (although they are not very good at that). Hence in the past, the requirement that MLS listing required that the realtor was involved with presenting a properly filled in purchase contract.

The CB says, that this restricts the option of sellers and is monopolistic. So now CREA is changing their rules so people have the option to list under scrutiny of realtor to ensure data presented on the listing is correct. However, the lister does have now (if approved at CREA`s annual meeting) the option to present an offer without realtor assistence. In my view, this will cause problems with provincial legislation where agent-client relations are quite strictly defined, in particular in Alberta. So when all is settled and done, I fear that the end result is a less protected consumer and that consumer will still blame the realtor for their own mistakes. C`est la vie.
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 08:22 PM) No disrespect felt, and although it takes a bit longer to set up the system than 5 minutes, yes it is automated. That is its beauty, you can customize it for your clients` special needs and off you go. Now that we`re so easily get entangled into .....

CREA is changing their rules so people have the option to list under scrutiny of realtor to ensure data presented on the listing is correct. However, the lister does have now (if approved at CREA`s annual meeting) the option to present an offer without realtor assistence. In my view, this will cause problems with provincial legislation where agent-client relations are quite strictly defined, in particular in Alberta. So when all is settled and done, I fear that the end result is a less protected consumer and that consumer will still blame the realtor for their own mistakes. C`est la vie.

Now I am stopping. I have been at this now for nearly two days. I think it is very important that we understand each other`s role in the real estate business. That way, investor, home buyer and realtor can work together more efficiently and make it a win/win for all. As a minimum, I hope to have you convinced that the realtor in theory owes you to be treated honestly and skill fully. Once you are `signed up` as a client, the realtor has to put the client`s interest before his/her own. Sometimes this client-agency relationship may be implied by the interaction between realtor and client - an extremely tricky scenario that often ends up in court where the judge usually goes against the realtor `because he/she should have known better`.

Also, when the realtor or his brokerage represents both the buyer and the seller, this client-agent relationship changes requiring yet another batch of forms and contracts, because how can such a realtor act in both the interest of both buyer and seller? It would be impossible - hence a special situation.

If you are sceptical of a realtor and don`t believe he/she is acting in your best interest, fire the realtor and do the deal by yourself or find another realtor you are more comfortable with. If you signed a contract with the realtor about representation, make sure you terminate the contract properly and if the realtor is acting still improperly talk with his broker.

Although there are always bad apples, and inexperienced apples or are those applets?, the majority of realtors is there to help you find the place you want in a sincere manner. You have to realize though that realtors mostly deal with `home buyers` not `investors` and even less with `REIN educated investors` as such they may not understand where you are coming from. So, if you are in the market, check here on-line for a suitable realtor first or as a minimum ensure the realtor you work with understands the REIN principals.

Signing off,
 
QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 11 2010, 08:22 PM) I fear that the end result is a less protected consumer and that consumer will still blame the realtor for their own mistakes. C`est la vie.

This is my fear as well.

However we may see some press about some poor young couple that bought a converted condo from a "shady investor" and is now financially ruined... Or granny that didn`t/couldn`t read the fine print which says her coin collection is included in the deal. Or a middle aged divorcee that`s up on meds and isn`t in a proper emotional state to sign a contract but does so... There will be some that save some money but also a few that lose everything. Sucks for them but the sad sack stories may well generate some positive press for realtors.
 
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