Legal non-conforming duplex...

[CaesarPua]

Hi everyone,

I am looking at a property that was previously a legal non-conforming duplex back in the 1980`s. If it changed to a single family residence in 1996 (still contains 2 kitchens and separate entrance though), can it now revert back to a legal non-conforming duplex with a current sale?

I tried calling the Planning and Zoning department but they have left for the day, but was wondering if any experts out there have any insight.

The property is in Ontario.

Thanks,
Caesar

 

[housingrental]

The city will provide a better answer than someone on the internet not familiar with the city the property is in or its setup.

 

[housedoc]

QUOTE (CaesarPua @ Nov 17 2009, 04:42 PM) Hi everyone,

I am looking at a property that was previously a legal non-conforming duplex back in the 1980`s. If it changed to a single family residence in 1996 (still contains 2 kitchens and separate entrance though), can it now revert back to a legal non-conforming duplex with a current sale?

I tried calling the Planning and Zoning department but they have left for the day, but was wondering if any experts out there have any insight.

The property is in Ontario.

Thanks,
Caesar

Once it`s `reverted` to a sfh, then isn`t it a sfh with an illegal suite? Why was it done?

 

[CaesarPua]

QUOTE (housedoc @ Nov 17 2009, 07:37 PM) Once it`s `reverted` to a sfh, then isn`t it a sfh with an illegal suite? Why was it done?


It appears they lived in the actual unit themselves and wanting to reduce their property taxes had it changed to single family.

I called the city. It can be changed to legal non-conforming provided it meets the bylaws and you apply for the permits, etc. Unfortunately, obtaining financing as a single-family home and meeting the 1.1 DCR rule will be difficult so I will pass on this opportunity.

 

[housedoc]

QUOTE (CaesarPua @ Nov 19 2009, 10:50 AM) It appears they lived in the actual unit themselves and wanting to reduce their property taxes had it changed to single family.

That`s what I figured.
Yet they didn`t convert the space.....and probably still rented it out, right?

Bad move.

 

[MikeMcC874]

QUOTE (CaesarPua @ Nov 19 2009, 10:50 AM) I called the city. It can be changed to legal non-conforming provided it meets the bylaws and you apply for the permits, etc. Unfortunately, obtaining financing as a single-family home and meeting the 1.1 DCR rule will be difficult so I will pass on this opportunity.

Do I misunderstand the meaning of legal non-conforming? I thought it basically meant that a property was being used for greater than its currently zoned use but had been used as such since before that municipalities zoning plan came into effect and was grandfathered in. If a property is zones R2 (duplex) but has been used as a triplex continuously since that date they cannot force you to conform R2.

Any I wrong?

Thanks
Mike

 

[housedoc]

QUOTE (MikeMcC874 @ Nov 19 2009, 08:38 PM) If a property is zones R2 (duplex) but has been used as a triplex continuously since that date they cannot force you to conform R2.

If continuously used as such.
I had a similar issue with a `legal non-conforming commercial` unit. City was reluctant to concede commercial use, even after hydro required a commercial hook-up.

 

[dianab]

QUOTE (MikeMcC874 @ Nov 19 2009, 08:38 PM) Do I misunderstand the meaning of legal non-conforming? I thought it basically meant that a property was being used for greater than its currently zoned use but had been used as such since before that municipalities zoning plan came into effect and was grandfathered in. If a property is zones R2 (duplex) but has been used as a triplex continuously since that date they cannot force you to conform R2.

Any I wrong?

Thanks
Mike
You`re right Mike. Once the change has been made legally you are now viewed as `conforming` and would have to get approval to return to non-conforming use. That being said you would have to connect with the Planning Department and find out what their records show to be sure. I believe if you`re conforming you would have to apply for a change , but not sure how the process would actually roll out since conforming is the Cities/Municipalities objective.

Diana

 

[MikeMcC874]

QUOTE (dianab @ Nov 22 2009, 07:11 AM) You`re right Mike. Once the change has been made legally you are now viewed as `conforming` and would have to get approval to return to non-conforming use. That being said you would have to connect with the Planning Department and find out what their records show to be sure. I believe if you`re conforming you would have to apply for a change , but not sure how the process would actually roll out since conforming is the Cities/Municipalities objective.

Diana

So you can apply to have it considered `legal non-conforming` again as opposed to applying to have it rezoned?

In London, for example, I can go look at the zoning of any property online. I go look at a property and see that it is R2 but the listing says it is being used\`sold` as a legal non-conforming triplex. I goto the library and hit the microfilm (can`t remember the guide name. doh!) and see that it had 3 different primary occupants in 1973. I trace it forward a bit and see that there was a gap between 1985 and 1990 where it appears to have only had 2 occupants listed but then back to 3 in 1991. In 1988 my agent sees a MLS listing the shows it sold as a duplex. This would indicate the chain was broken. If I goto the city and ask to return to non-conforming use, will I see the zoning changed or will they just be saying that they will ignore the 5 year span and consider it `connected`.

Sorry so long-winded but this has become a real concern for me in London with the new landlord licensing coming March 1st. One if the requirements is proof of zoning conformity to get the license. I ended up buying in Woodstock (close on my first property in early December

) to not have to deal with this. In the case of the Woodstock property the seller was able to provide a letter from the city engineer verifying the legal non-conforming status.

Thanks
Mike