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Libertas Properties Management

nepoez

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After the previous PM from Libertas resigned from his Job I was assigned another Liaison. This one only replies 50% of the time to an emails, and rarely provides confirmation about anything. Phone calls usually lead to answering machines which are worse because voice mails are not as clear as emails when it comes to a condensed amount of information. So if my partner and I ever inquired or provided any important information, we basically have to wait to see if we get a reply, if no reply in a few days it basically means it`s been forgotten, we have to call to hunt down an answer. If the call gets to an answering machine, the game starts again. Leave a message and hope it gets responded to..

It`s quite frustrating. It`s almost like we have to manage the property ourselves. An example, we were curious if the utilities are transfered from previous tenants to our names yet as the place went vacant, it wasn`t, the PM wouldn`t even be proactive enough to tell us or do something about the utilities. We found out from the City, then asked the PM to do something about it, you`d expect a respond saying, sure we`ll take care of it. But instead we`re expected to just have faith an trust that they`ve got it taken care of. So I asked for a confirmation to see if they are gonna do anything, after asking a couple times then got a response saying, yup it`s taken care of.

A month later(this week), my partner goes to the house and finds that the heating is not working as the City had lock us for not having anyone`s name assigned to the bill, contrarary to what the PM told us! And Edmonton is getting cold. Emailed the PM, no response for 2 days, email the boss, no response, called, get an answering machine, emailed a few people to try to get some human interaction, finally get a response telling us that they`ll be looking into it and that we should just call if no one response and not to email everyone. No apologies for anything. It`s like we`re a pest for trying to find out the status of anything.

The thing is, if there`s a heating issue and after we told them and they are working on it we should get a confirmation or some kind of response so we know if something is gonna get done about it. We can`t just assume someone is gonna take care of things, after all we had to accidentally find out that there was no heating setup with the City ourselves!


We had also told the PM on 3 occations the exact rent prices, and after each time, a week or 2 later we get an email asking us what the pricing should be! I figured that this PM might be just bad with emails so I asked her if we should use the phone instead of emails from now on, I asked twice, no response. So the answer is probably, yes phone is better. So I called, got an answering machine each time.


I had really tried to make this relationship work, now I`ve heard good things about Libertas, and I had a good experience with the last Liaison so I know the company is not all bad. However both my partner and I are experiencing pretty poor service with this new liaison, we complain to the boss but the boss actually said she`s one of the best. I thought maybe we just had a bad start but after another month or so we still felt the same, with the lack of response and the heating and such.

What are some of your suggestions out there? I feel so stuck and frustrated, and feel that the PM thinks that we`re the bad guys for expecting confirmations of statuses, and not just having faith or somethin!!
 

housingrental

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What your most likely to accomplish from posting it here is to make them look bad.
You should try emailing them directly with your post if you want a solution.
If your contacting multiple people through an email they each might be assuming the other person is dealing with it.
Find out who your appropriate contact is.
 

brad

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Why are you doing business with these people?!?!?! Cut all ties with these clowns and find someone else to manage YOUR investments.

Brad
 

nepoez

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housing rental, I`ve contacted THE contact person, in every way we could. if you read the post you`d understand that there was nothing else I could do. Anyways why am I wasting time explaining myself.

Brad you are right..

Whining does nothing, time for action.
 

Thomas Beyer

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talk to the owner.

Tell them the specific facts you state here.

Give them a deadline to improve things .. say 3 months. If things don`t improve find another one PM. With the caveat that is is very hard to find a good property manager for one unit or even a few units. VERY HARD.

Look at it from their point of view. How much money can they make off you if they charged you 10% and do accounting, leasing, paying bills, put ads in paper and online, pre-screening tenants, do showings sverela times to find one good one, run a credit report, collect the rent, setting rent levels, observing trends, hire sub-trades, supervise sub-trades, send monthly reports, evict tenants if necessary, go to court if necessary, switch utilities between tenants etc. etc. ...

Thus a fee of 10-12% per month PLUS a one month re-leasing fee is the minimum you should be paying for good service !

You feed peanuts .. you get monkeys !

Lots of monkeys in the PM business. A few great ones. But many of those are busy and don`t take in new clients.

It gets better if you own 20 or more units !!
 

Nir

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Nepoez, what a waste of your time! I can`t believe you waited that long! The trick is to understand there is hard work in front of you that you MUST do: find another much better PM asap!

Thomas, isn`t it more (and sometimes significantly more) than 10% of rent due to the fact many PMs make profit fixing things operating as both contractors and PMs?
not that it`s wrong, just reminding in most cases it`s more than just the % of rent? Therefore, a related question: how can we minimize the conflict of interest risk? you the owner want minimum maintenance costs, where many PMs benefit from your maintenance issues!?
 

invst4profit

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You have wasted far to much time waiting for them to do there job. You have give them more than enough chances to step up and they continue to drop the ball.
There is obviously a problem with there management so it will be a waste of time talking to the boss. The best you can hope for is a temporary improvement or possibly no more than lip service. Do not waste another day trying to change them start looking for another PM company immediately and dump them as soon as you find one.
 

nepoez

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Thanks all for the feedback. All very valid points and help me validate that I`m not being unreasonable.

Thomas` point it very valid too and it`s why I`ve had a hard time making a decision even after voicing my concerns to the owner. I`ve heard of way worse PMs out there and I`m worried that if I think I`m getting out of a bad situation with the current PM, what if I get into a worse one. After all, I`ve had good experiences with this current PM for a period too so it shows they can be good. But I guess that`s just being frozen by fear isn`t it? Feels like I`m making excuses.

Thanks again all,

I think I know what I need to do.
 

BrianPersaud

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QUOTE (nepoez @ Oct 12 2009, 11:38 AM) Thanks all for the feedback. All very valid points and help me validate that I`m not being unreasonable.

Thomas` point it very valid too and it`s why I`ve had a hard time making a decision even after voicing my concerns to the owner. I`ve heard of way worse PMs out there and I`m worried that if I think I`m getting out of a bad situation with the current PM, what if I get into a worse one. After all, I`ve had good experiences with this current PM for a period too so it shows they can be good. But I guess that`s just being frozen by fear isn`t it? Feels like I`m making excuses.

Thanks again all,

I think I know what I need to do.


Welcome to the world of real estate investing. It`s very hard to find good people that stay for a long period of time. Dealing with this stuff is your badge of honor...you provide massive value...you protect investors and partners from this
 

housingrental

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Some do, many like me don`t
You can eliminate conflict of interest through dealing with ones that use third party only

QUOTE (investmart @ Oct 12 2009, 12:03 AM) Nepoez, what a waste of your time! I can`t believe you waited that long! The trick is to understand there is hard work in front of you that you MUST do: find another much better PM asap!

Thomas, isn`t it more (and sometimes significantly more) than 10% of rent due to the fact many PMs make profit fixing things operating as both contractors and PMs?
not that it`s wrong, just reminding in most cases it`s more than just the % of rent? Therefore, a related question: how can we minimize the conflict of interest risk? you the owner want minimum maintenance costs, where many PMs benefit from your maintenance issues!?
 

housingrental

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neopez - I did read your post. Did you contact the contact person with the content of this post?
How could you hope to solve your issue with your post?

QUOTE (nepoez @ Oct 11 2009, 09:35 PM) housing rental, I`ve contacted THE contact person, in every way we could. if you read the post you`d understand that there was nothing else I could do. Anyways why am I wasting time explaining myself.

Brad you are right..

Whining does nothing, time for action.
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (nepoez @ Oct 12 2009, 08:38 AM) .. I`ve heard of way worse PMs out there and I`m worried that if I think I`m getting out of a bad situation with the current PM, what if I get into a worse one. After all, I`ve had good experiences with this current PM for a period too so it shows they can be good. ..
Going from bad to worse could happen ..

Many PM firms revolve around one person or 2 .. and if that person leaves .. the entire company collapses or 50% of their clients leave ..

Also, many firms charge 15% or so for major repair items in addition to management fee or re-lease fee .. some also charge for photocopies or cell phone bills or km driven ..
 

Nir

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QUOTE (housingrental @ Oct 12 2009, 08:57 AM) Some do, many like me don`t
You can eliminate conflict of interest through dealing with ones that use third party only

I`m sure you don`t Adam. However, I`m also sure you understand why for the OWNER/INVESTOR it is not laways known what is really going on behind the scenes. not complaining though, this is the case in every field, not just RE. another reason why totally distrustful people can not invest in RE. well, from a certain level they can not do anything. Thanks.
 

invst4profit

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QUOTE (investsmart @ Oct 12 2009, 01:01 PM) another reason why totally distrustful people can not invest in RE. well, from a certain level they can not do anything. Thanks.


Or they manage there properties themselves as I do.
 

nepoez

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Hi housingrental. Yes I was very detailed in all the emails I write them, the amount of writing I do is always 3 times more detailed and thought out than their responses. I`ve raised my concerns to the contact person first(in detail with everything my partner and I had been so tired of) without elevating it to her boss at first. Then only did we write to the owner because it was either ignored or I never got any responses. The rest of the story is already in the post. This post doesn`t solve anything with for my issues no. Perhaps I was just trying to vent or validate my judgement. Also, I feel that this is a community that shares their RE experiences(good and bad) so here I write. Sometimes talking things out does not solve the problem directly but it doesn`t mean it`s pointless.



QUOTE (housingrental @ Oct 12 2009, 08:59 AM) neopez - I did read your post. Did you contact the contact person with the content of this post?
How could you hope to solve your issue with your post?
 

nepoez

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Part of me would like to get some training and do that, too bad I`m not in the some province.

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Oct 12 2009, 11:12 AM) Or they manage there properties themselves as I do.
 

nepoez

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That is why I tried so hard in attempt to make the relationship with the current PM work, because I`ve heard of so much worse.

QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Oct 12 2009, 09:14 AM) Going from bad to worse could happen ..

Many PM firms revolve around one person or 2 .. and if that person leaves .. the entire company collapses or 50% of their clients leave ..

Also, many firms charge 15% or so for major repair items in addition to management fee or re-lease fee .. some also charge for photocopies or cell phone bills or km driven ..
 

jamurphy

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I`ll throw in my two cents;



I too, have recently experienced a changeover in landlord liaison at Libertas…and although the timing makes me believe it is the same associate, my experience could not be more different.



Dealing with the previous landlord liaison was DIABOLICAL….like pulling teeth getting a response to even the most basic of requests. I was literally days away from moving all my business to another firm.



Since the changeover, the service has been SUPERB….guaranteed response to emails within 48hours (as per contract) and all requests are actioned as per my request.

I also find that a lot of info is on the web portal….I find this v.helpful.



WHAT A REFIELF.

Now I can focus on my investing, rather than the day to day management of the units.



Not sure if this helps you in any way…..but good luck whichever way you go.



James Murphy
 

invst4profit

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What it says to me is that service from a property management company is subject to change with the wind.
Having to work with a PM company would drive me crazy. This is one of the major reasons I personally never invest where I could not be on site in a reasonable amount of time.

Tenants seem to be the biggest problem for LLs and PMs the biggest problem for investors.
At least for me I am not paying the people that are causing the problems.
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (invst4profit @ Oct 13 2009, 04:10 PM) What it says to me is that service from a property management company is subject to change with the wind.
Having to work with a PM company would drive me crazy. This is one of the major reasons I personally never invest where I could not be on site in a reasonable amount of time.

Tenants seem to be the biggest problem for LLs and PMs the biggest problem for investors.
At least for me I am not paying the people that are causing the problems.
true to a point .. but it will limit the size of any company you will have !

At some point you will have to learn to delegate or manage/trust others !
 
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