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Milton=Positive Cash Flow

JoeRagona

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QUOTE (afshinrein @ Jul 26 2010, 10:42 AM) So far we have positive cash flow and if the market stays the same we should be good.

Thanks

This is pure speculation isn`t it? If you are banking on the market to stay the same to be cash flow positive, this is a fundamental mistake. You need to stress test your portfolio for future fluctuation both up and down.

Also, when you are hoping rents to be higher as part of your cash flow analysis, this can also turn against you. In a perfect world yes the rents should be higher but just like this new rental increase of only 0.7 per cent...it will not make a huge impact to your bottom line. At the same time expenses have gone up.
 

afshinrein

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QUOTE (bizaro86 @ Jul 27 2010, 09:42 AM) I certainly never intended to be discouraging, I was responding to the bit about 50/month negative cashflow being ok, which I disagree with.

I thought the comment about cancerous new construction was a bit much.

Michael

Ok. I heard it. I think it is fare to give you the whole picture as is.
The value of properties I get is around $300,00 this gives me $1500/month of rent, base on 35 years amort. with variable rate and I put 20% down. Do the calculation. You should have $150 to $350 positive cash flow. These houses are 2 to 6 year old. Tell me what is wrong with this sweet, high appreciation deal. By the way, I agree with buy and hold (a fool will sell in 2 years). If you know of a better deal, please let me know.
 

CarrieKoch

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A better deal, we purchased a triplex in Orillia for 255,000. Rents 2700 / month. Top 10 Ten Town, units easily rent to quality tenants. Cash flow zone 12.7%. Your deal... 6 %I like mine because if one tenant moves out I still got plenty of cash coming in. If yours sits vacant for 1 month or your tenant doesn`t pay for 4 months..Your toast. I`d rather have that then potential appreciation. QUOTE (afshinrein @ Oct 24 2010, 12:00 AM) Ok. I heard it. I think it is fare to give you the whole picture as is. The value of properties I get is around $300,00 this gives me $1500/month of rent, base on 35 years amort. with variable rate and I put 20% down. Do the calculation. You should have $150 to $350 positive cash flow. These houses are 2 to 6 year old. Tell me what is wrong with this sweet, high appreciation deal. By the way, I agree with buy and hold (a fool will sell in 2 years). If you know of a better deal, please let me know.
 

eddyb1978

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afshinrein`s approach to this Milton single family deal scares me!!
 

gwasser

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QUOTE (afshinrein @ Oct 23 2010, 10:00 PM) Ok. I heard it. I think it is fare to give you the whole picture as is.
The value of properties I get is around $300,00 this gives me $1500/month of rent, base on 35 years amort. with variable rate and I put 20% down. Do the calculation. You should have $150 to $350 positive cash flow. These houses are 2 to 6 year old. Tell me what is wrong with this sweet, high appreciation deal. By the way, I agree with buy and hold (a fool will sell in 2 years). If you know of a better deal, please let me know.

Hi Ashfin,

First of all, why did you start this post? Is it to promote Milton with investors or is it to ask the opinion of REIN members on this board on your deal?

If you screen the above numbers on gross rent, I calulate that you collect 12x1500= $18000 gross rent annually (not counting vacancies). That means a gross rent/purchase price ratio of 6% which based on REIN`s initial screen criteria is too low (requires 8 to 10%).

Also, since you do not report monthly operating expenses, we cannot estimate what your NOI and cap rate are. For Calgary right now, you may buy condominium apartments and townhouses with a cap rate between 3 and 4%. Not spectacular but in light of Calgary`s average annual appreciation of between 6 and 8% not unreasonable.

In Eastern Canada, cap rates are usually higher, if I understand correctly they are closer to 5 to 6%.

Why are cap rates important? Well you can then very easily check them against mortgage rates. If the cap rate is higher than the mortgage rate your leverage will increase your cash flow, while when lower it will reduce cash flow. If you, as many REIN members suspect, that interest rates are likely to rise over the coming 5 years, say by one or 2 % so to an interest rate of 4.5 - 5.5%, then chances are that you will generate negative cash flow.

If you already start out with moderate cashflow, like $50 dollars per month your chances of turning to negative cash flow are high. If you have high leverage (LTVs of 20% or less) and amortization of 35% with very low interest mortgages (variable rate) then you are likely to be exposed to significant negative cash flow pretty soon when rates rise.

This affects an investor`s discretionary income as well as his ability to raise future mortgages. To protect yourself you should consider locking in (a 5 year mortgage is currently pegged at 3.5%) and reducing your leverage say to 30 or 35%. This should bullet prove your cash-flow for the future.

Cash flow is ensuring you being able to finance future opportunities and to build a reserve fund against unforseen renovations. It will prevent your investors from a forced sale. Creation of tax losses is a bad investment strategy - any investment should be able to fly on its own merit and it should be self-funding (i.e. the investor does not have to add capital) over the life of a project.

The overall merit of the investment is also measured using the ROI (return-on-investment) measurement, how much is your initial investment increasing per year. It comprises positive cash flow plus appreciation (and mortgage pay down). The anticipated appreciation comprises a significant speculative element. Cash flow determines the capacity to hold on to a property without a forced sale while ROI determines your anticipated total profits.

Your project does, at first sight have very marginal cash flow (how are you financing an unexpected reno of $5000.00 or an increase in interest rates?). Nor, with 5% annual appreciation does your ROI make a 15-20% ROI something most of us are aiming for. Hence the skeptic response by many posters.
 

jseib

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I love Milton.. I live there and have done very well for ourselves appreciation wise since moving here.

It`s certainly better then Oakville from a numbers perspective but I would never hang a sign out advertising Milton as a destination for positive cash flow investing..
 

housingrental

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Afshin - I trust you didn`t read my post at the top of page 2... perhaps you could and stop debasing this forum and post something of value?
 

invst4profit

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QUOTE (afshin rain @ Oct 24 2010, 12:00 AM) Ok. I heard it. I think it is fare to give you the whole picture as is.
The value of properties I get is around $300,00 this gives me $1500/month of rent, base on 35 years amort. with variable rate and I put 20% down. Do the calculation. You should have $150 to $350 positive cash flow. These houses are 2 to 6 year old. Tell me what is wrong with this sweet, high appreciation deal. By the way, I agree with buy and hold (a fool will sell in 2 years). If you know of a better deal, please let me know.

Ok that`s a start now give us your estimates for expenses, vacancies, legal, advertising, insurance, utilities when vacant, prep between tenants, evictions, upkeep, repairs, property management that sort of thing.
What about the $60,000 invested do you plan on attributing any portion of the rent toward a return on the cash investment.
At 3% that should be worth $150 per month if invested elsewhere.
My rough estimates place your expenses between $450 and $750 per month (30% - 50%).

Your numbers don`t mean much unless you include all the back ground info as well not just the big numbers up front. Fill us in please.
 
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