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Purchasing a building with a possible mold problem

nemesisb13

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Apr 21, 2010
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I’m in the process of buying a 1970 16plex with my parents in Quebec. I just had it inspected this past Tuesday and the overall condition is good: electrical, plumbing, roof, and the overall construction are good. Cash flow is positive and there is potential to increase the rents. I will receive the complete inspection report by tomorrow.

One thing that worries me though is that the inspector found some mold, mainly in the crawlspace and an outside wall under the roof for a 10-foot long by 1-foot tall section. He recommended to have a mold specialist assess the severity of the mold in both areas and to get a cost estimate on the cleanup.



Since the sale is conditional on a satisfactory inspection, what would you recommend in a situation like this?



The owner declared that the building is mold-free to his knowledge. If the mold is not severe and can be cleaned up, I would like to negotiate to have the owner correct it or reduce the purchase price based on the estimates I get and I hire someone to clean it up.



If the mold issue is too severe and cleaning it up would be too costly, then dropping the deal would be the most prudent thing to do. I don’t know if there are legal ramifications to this but my offer was conditional on an inspection anyway.



Your feedback is very welcome.



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For anyone who can provide feedback on mold issues, here are the details from this building. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.



Details about the mold in crawlspace:




The crawlspace does not seem to have a concrete slab like other buildings I’ve seen, but instead is filled with sand. The sand was originally covered with a layer of plastic to serve as a vapor barrier but when I went in the crawlspace with the inspector, most of it was punctured and torn for some reason.



The inspector found white mold on the sand just about everywhere and there seemed to be more of it in areas where the ventilation of the crawlspace was inadequate. There was also a large ring of about 1 meter in diameter where more mold was present. He explained that this probably happened because the brick on the outside wall is almost flush with the soil so more humidity would seep in and have built up that way. He didn’t see any signs of water infiltration though. According to him, all this, combined with the punctured vapor barrier and the inadequate ventilation, helped the mold grow in the crawlspace.





Details about the mold under roof:




The mold in this area was slightly visible through the holes on the soffit under the roof but mainly on the wall immediately below it. At first the inspector didn’t know what to make of it. He suspected a fire but after discussing with the owner and trying to find an alternative explanation, he suspects that when the roof was redone about 10 years ago, the fiberglass insulation may have gotten wet and was not replaced before the roof was closed off. Maybe the insulation got wet from a leak in the roof before it was replaced too. Hard to say. Moisture in the insulation may have allowed a potential mold problem to start. The mold in this area is black.
 
To begin this I should mention I am by no means an expert at anything construction wise or real estate wise. Normally I would consider myself very much an advice Receiver and not an advice giver.

that being said, if never hurts to ASK for what you want. Really, what`s the harm in asking to have it fixed by the vendor? They say no, you pass, and find a different property. very little in life comes without prompting. If you are even considering walking away, why not throw out the list of what it would take to keep you interested? At least then you`ll know you made the right decision and won`t be left wondering if you could have made it work!

Just my two cents. It`s reworded advice I`m reusing from my once upon a time hockey career.

Kris

Edit: also, I would be inclined to specifying something along the lines of "fixed by a qualified technician satisfactory to buyer and buyer`s lawyer upon being re-inspected by liscnenced inspector of buyer`s choice..." or some such condition. Last thing you would need is to be locked into the deal if they half heartedly fix something.
 
As a mold remediation contractor what you have described is quite common & repairable. Look for a IICRC certified firm in your area to provide you an estimate. Dry ice blasting for the attic & installation of a 10-12 mil encapsalation liner in the crawl space would be my reccomendation.Think of it as a swiming pool liner.Install a dehumidifer in the crawl space afterwards.

Doug
 
Thanks Doug for the info. Tomorrow I`ll call some firms to get estimates since mold is a problem that needs to be tackled. It will also give me some negotiating power with the seller, especially if the cost to repair is large. Regarding the attic, I have no idea how they will be able to remove the mold there, since it is not accessible by a person from the trap door. The roof is flat and low profile (less than 1.5 feet) so I`m guessing the cleanup would need to be done from the outside or underside. I`m worried that mold may have creeped between the brick and the supporting walls of the building. The crawlspace is much easier to work in.

Kris, what you propose makes sense. I am going to add some new conditions based on the inspection so that the owner agrees to remedy the problems before I continue with the sale. The actual repairs can be done after the final closing of the sale, I just want to make sure he agrees in writing to do the necessary repairs at some point in the near future.

It`s really great the support I`m getting from REIN. I appreciate it very much.
Thanks again.
 
I visited the building more closely yesterday with a general contractor in order to assess certain structural elements in the crawlspace. And I took many pictures which I’ve posted here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56354043@N08/...57625462881108/

Some pictures of the black “mold” on the side of the building are here (though it looks more like water infiltration from the roof to me, a bad flashing or something):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56354043@N08/...57625337188841/

There are other sets of pictures for anyone interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56354043@N08/sets/


The crawlspace is very humid, and there is a lot of efflorescence from what I could judge based on what I’ve read on the internet (excessive moisture/humidity pushing through from the outside and from the ground up). This has the potential of creating or has already created mold issues in the crawlspace. The white and pink residues could be mold, but based on my reading, it might be efflorescence.

Efflorescence has the ability to cause the concrete to deteriorate at a much quicker rate than with no outside humidity. This could be an indication of a drainage problem, or just too much water being directed toward the building. Unfortunately, this building does not have a concrete slab for the crawlspace floor, only sand with a punctured/deteriorated vapor barrier which does nothing to keep the moisture out.

Also, the pinkish residue on some of the concrete walls is a mystery to me. I’m going back to visit the building tomorrow with a person who works at a decontamination/cleaning company and deals with cleaning mold and other contamination. Hopefully he’ll be able to give me a better idea as to what these things mean.

I’ll post back my feedback since it could be educational to others.

Feel free to browse through the pictures.
 
Looks to me you have a plumbing leak in the crawl space. I first thought it was humidity but the water drip is only on the one pipe. The green on the copper pipe is a good indication of a leak. If you have any mold in the crawl space it`s minor. Fix the plumbing leak. Install a interior weeping system which is big "O" around the foundation wall into a sump pit with pump. Pour a concrete floor & install a dehumidifier. The attic is a different issue. Hard to tell from the photo. Find out if the bathroom exhaust vents outside or into the attic itself. You may need to strip the shingles & roof decking off. It may not be mold but rather a soil filtration due to poor ventilation.It certainly requires further investigation.

Doug
 
Thanks Doug.

A friend of mine also suggested to pour concrete. I`ll find out the cost and if the city permits it in that area.

As for the plumbing, there is at least one confirmed leak, and there is chronic condensation too. The hot water pipes, the ones next to the corroded pipes, are fine because all the water evaporates before it can condensate. There was also a giant drain pipe (10 inch) made of galvanized steel that was also condensating. Humidity is definitely present, but more pronounced in other areas of the crawlspace. Those corroded pipes are near the center of the building where it feels dryer.

The weeping system sounds like a big job. I`ll need to inquire.

For the attic it will be hard to strip any section off of the roof (elastomeric membrane) without compromising its integrity. The current owner will definitely not allow this before a sale...

I`m starting to think that with all these possible things to be done, including what already needs to be done (some brickwork, some foundation cracks to repair, and a few others), the price will have to be substantially renegotiated with the seller, or the deal dropped altogether if we can’t come to an agreement on the repairs... I’ll wait to see tomorrow’s mold assessment and take it from there.

Thanks again.
 
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