REIN™ Announces New Partnership with TenantPay to Benefit Members

[REINteam]

As a REIN` Member and real estate investor, collecting rent from your tenants can be tedious at times. What if there was a better, more efficient way to collect rent payments that would make life easier for both you and your tenants?



REIN` introduces a brand-new Member benefit with our partnership with TenantPay.



So what is TenantPay and how will it benefit you as a Member?



TenantPay is a means of Electronic Rent Collection that costs your tenant nothing and doesn't require them to do any paperwork - imagine something so easy! It removes stress from your bookkeeping and gives you instant notification of monies being transferred to your bank account. No more waiting for confirmation that post-dated cheques have cleared.



Your tenants are likely familiar with paying a utility bill - TenantPay works just like that. Your tenants provide an account number and authorize payment from their account to TenantPay, who then passes the funds along to you as the landlord. This service is designed with tenants in mind to make paying rent fast and easy, and carries no setup costs for you as the landlord.



Daily deposits from multiple tenants are merged and TenantPay notifies you by email when the deposits have been made. Once you've been notified that a payment has been made, you have the peace of mind knowing that the money is secure - no need to make a trip to the bank to deposit cheques.



Here's how you can take advantage of TenantPay:




- REIN` Members with less than 15 doors in their portfolio can collect rent for $5 per transaction (non-REIN` Members with under 25 doors pay $10 per transaction).


- REIN` Members with 15 doors or more can collect rent for $1 per transaction (non-REIN` Members must have 25 doors or more to get a $1 transaction fee).






REIN` Members can click here to sign up for TenantPay and receive the Members-Only discount.http://http://www.reincanada.com/tenant-pay.aspx




If you have any questions about TenantPay and the REIN` Members-Only discounted pricing, please contact the REIN` Office at 1-888-824-7346 or send an email to [email protected].

 

[LAndersen]

$5 per transaction with less than 15 doors seems a bit steep if you ask me. If a person has 10 doors at $5, that's $600 per year just to collect rent....ouch!

 

[tkjca]

My tenants send their rent via email transfer every month. Cost to them is $1 per transfer and it is free for me.

 

[invst4profit]

TenantPay should be charging tenants for the service not the landlord. Tenants are responsible to insure the landlord receives their money. If they are late the landlord (in Ontario) simply files a L9 and the tenant pays an additional $170 penalty.

 

[smmcguire]

Greg, does the landlord or the tenant receive the $170. penalty? Can you give me a quick overview of the L9 process.



Thanks,

Steve

 

[housingrental]

Landlord pays it, tenant is supposed to pay back landlord and tenant

Works great when you collect

Extra sunk cost if not

 

[invst4profit]

Process is fairly simple. Tenant has until mid night on the first of the month, or whatever day rent is due, to pay. If they do not pay the landlord simply goes to a Service Ontario office, assuming it has a landlord tenant service, and files the L9. The landlord is not required to contact or notify the tenant prior to filing the L9. The L9 and all LTB formes are available on line. At the time of filing the landlord pays the $170 application fee. According to the LTB the tenant at that point immediately owes the landlord the $170 fee. If the tenant pays the rent prior to the board hearing they must include this fee with the rent. If they pay everything before a hearing you simply contact the board and cancel the hearing.

Make sure they pay by check with the date they are paying clearly on the check. This will be the proof they payed late. If they normally pay in cash make sure they sign a letter stating they payed late with the date.

The first time tenants are faced with this they often refuse to pay the fee in which case you will proceed to the board hearing as scheduled ( give them the LTB phone number and they can confirm for themselves that they owe you the $170). At the hearing you present the evidence, photo copy of check, signed letter or simply your testimony, and the adjudicator will order the tenant to pay all amounts owing including the $170 fee. To date I have never seen an adjudicator wave this fee for tenants.



I believe the board intended the L9 to be used by landlords, with the $170 penalty to tenants, specific to reduce the work load of dealing with late payments. Even the worst tenants learn this lesson very quickly. Tenants intentionally using their landlords as a revolving bank are shocked the first time they are served.



I like to explain this process to tenant applicants to insure they understand, before becoming tenants, that late payment will not be tolerated and will cost them money. I make no exceptions for any reason. I always tell them I am not ever interested in hearing reasons or excuses for late payment. This is where the L9 is far superior to serving a N4 as it does not cost the landlord any money in the end where as the N4 is simply a rent vacation for your tenant that will cost you $170 if it proceeds to a hearing. Any application except the L9 will always cost the landlord the $170 because the board generally denies all other applications preferring to protect the tenants.



The L9 is inconvenient it that the first time it will likely require a board hearing however this is simply part of having to train tenants or get rid of those tenants expecting to take advantage of their landlords.

The L9 is a training tool for bad tenants, or new tenants, whereas in the case of good tenants that may slip up I simply charge them a $20 late fee.

 

[housingrental]

It should be noted that portion of Greg's second last paragraph is not correct.

However his unhappiness with the system is understood.

 

[invst4profit]

Not from my experience it isn't. I have personally sat through dozens of days of board hearings and read several hundred rulings on CanLII. Adjudicators go out of their way, including ignoring the RTA regulations, to rule against landlords. Particularly in the case of N4s where adjudicators instruct tenants to pay and summarily deny the eviction application.

 

[housingrental]

I have had success with full eviction process

Delays are possible, and some cities will be better than others, but the LTB still makes orders against renters on an ongoing basis in every area in Ontario

 

[invst4profit]

They do order against renters however never on a landlords first application to evict and always with the condition that in the event the tenant is willing to comply with a board order the eviction will be stayed. In other words it is always at the tenants discreation as to whether they chose to terminate or not.

Take a close look at the options a landlord has to deal with to correct tenant behavior. Except the L9 all others are "eviction" notices. Landlords do not have the option of taking a tenant to the board to simply have the board order a tenant to shape up. This means that in the majority of cases the board allows the tenant a opportunity to do so and denies the eviction portion of the application there by costing the landlord the $170 application fee.



The inclusion of "eviction" as part of the application is intentional on the part of the board to insure tenants do not incur any costs associated with the landlords applications. The board will only evict after repeatedly denying eviction applications to allow all tenants multiple opportunities to correct their actions.

If you check the records the overwhelming majority of successful eviction applications are based on non payment of rent in the cases where tenants have refused to pay the rent owing or not meet the conditions of a agreement to pay rent owing. In reality the landlord is not successful in evicting the tenant simply decides to stop stealing free accommodation from the landlord and leaves.



Pity the ill informed landlord that believes they actually have control of their property once a tenant moves in.

 

[BruceS]

Greg, you don't own normal residential rental properties like most of us here do.



You own a trailer park.



Please disclose this from now on when giving advice.

 

[invst4profit]

Bruce my family and myself have owned every conceivable type of rental property since before the second world war. Landlords are landlords and tenants are tenants when it comes to residential properties. There is no difference in regards to dealing with the post TPA, RTA and the LTB and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. A landlord is a landlord is a landlord and I do not discriminate based on the type of property they own.

However if you would prefer I will only post in regards to my previous experience with SFHs, duplexes and small apartment buildings or possibly in regards to my friends and family members experiences regarding tenants. But since I have more first hand experience dealing directly with the LTB than the average small landlord I think I can distinguish between MHP specific rulings as opposed to other rental property rulings.

Perhaps you would care to share your personal board experiences.

 

[BruceS]

Greg,



I tried to be as discreet and professional as possible. I simply asked you to let others know you don't rent normal residential rental properties.



You own a trailer park in rural Ontario and rent to the lowest income and trailer park tenants on welfare.



This means your advice might apply to trailer parks and lowest income and trailer park tenants on welfare but usually doesn't apply to other landlords who rent single family homes, duplexes and larger rentals and who aim to attract prime time tenants.



Renting to low-income trailer park tenants and tenants on welfare is different. I don't care if your great grandpa was the top wine-maker in Italy or invented the wheel.



I'm talking about giving good advice and helping landlords NOW.



Your advice is like you have a 'magic wand.' In reality a lot of your advice is not only WRONG, it's dangerous for landlords.

 

[housingrental]

Greg: You should take Bruce's post to heart.



I'm sure you both want the best for all people.

The reality is your regularly posting cautionary posts - which are good, as do I - but are often mixing in a negative bias and incorrect statements about renting in Ontario.



The system though not perfect, slow, and at at times like any potential system outrageously unfair, is transparent and can be somewhat planned and budgeted for the same way any other business expense can be.

Just as anyone can post about how terrible it is when the $3000 furnace that was supposed to last 20 years needs replacement in 5 years, it does not follow that investing in real estate in Ontario guarantees loses, bad renters, or unfair treatment at the Landlord and Tenant Board - or even the need to often deal with the LTB - or furnaces that last only 5 years.



Please be mindful that many REIN members focus on having a working relationship with their property's renters - not just a legal one - and have had success in this.



Its best to focus on what you can control. Perhaps you can dedicate your future posts to what REIN teaches:

The need for a reserve fun, running your rental property like a business

Planning for capital improvements

Pro-active maintenance servicing to minimize long term repair costs

Quality marketing to attract many potential renters

A quality rental product to result in quality applicants

Thorough screening to reduce the chances of uncollected rent or property damage

Customer service focused renter relations so renters work with you to get the property re-rented when they end tenancy and leave the place in good condition or might even get so attached to the property they want to purchase it from you



The experience of many small rental providers in Ontario that focus on the above is a positive and profitable one where the LTB is often not needed.

 

[invst4profit]

Ok Bruce you have some interesting points although highly prejudicial. I should point out some inconsistencies in your assumptions. First as you don't know me and could have no idea what my property is unless you live there you have no bases for your comments. To begin maybe you might want to define "normal" when defining rental properties. I have tenants and they pay monthly rent to live on my property. That seems normal to me.

I do not own a "trailer park" and as with the residents of my land lease community we take offense to that terminology.

The residents of my community are primarily retired as it is an adult only community. Mainly retired armed forces, teachers, nurses, hydro workers, at least one lawyer and various other professionals, those that still work are primarily middle income blue and white collar.

As far as welfare recipients is concerned although I did have a couple when I bought the property they are long gone and their homes are also either gone or renovated beyond the reach of welfare or the low income. There are presently no homes in my community anyone on welfare could afford to purchase. Cost of entry to my community is beyond their means and they would not qualify to be accepted as residents.

Perhaps you are right in assuming mine is not a normal rental as all my residents own their own homes and for that reason alone are somewhat elevated above your normal tenant. They are of a higher standard than the common renter. They are not here due to financial constraints as the majority of renters are they are here by choice. Most have downsized to free up investment money for retirement.

As far as my advice is concerned none of it in my experience is wrong it is simply advice based on real world experiences that you may not and perhaps may never experience.



My intent in providing my opinions based on real experiences is to insure the inexperienced landlord realizes the challenges in dealing with tenants and avoids the situations. I have seen far too many novice landlords shocked into the reality of the anty landlord mentality of the LTB.

As far as being dangerous advice is concerned all I can say is burying ones head in the sand and ignoring reality in the hopes that it will never happen to you is naive. Bruce, if you were an experienced landlord in Ontario you would know all this.

 

[invst4profit]

Adam I did take Bruce`s post to heart and found it highly prejudicial and quite offensive however I believe I maintained a professional posture in responding.

In regards to your post to begin lets make sure we understand I post my comments based on my personal experiences, although possibly somewhat bias they are none the less accurate. They are directed to the novice landlord that has neither experienced dealing with bad tenants , the LTB or perhaps even the finances of this business in Ontario. Please keep in mind this is the public forum intended for none REIN members. Those that do not necessarily benefit from the vast experience of decades of landlord experiences.

As far as "having a working relationship with their properties renters" is concerned I have a excellent relationship with the vast majority of my residents. There is not a single one that I do not know personally and most likely beyond the relationship that the majority of landlords would have with residents. My property is a community in which the residents regularly interact with me as any normal home owner would.

I could concentrate on posting as you suggest however I find REIN to be seriously lacking in regards to the negative aspects of the real world of land lording that perhaps the majority of none REIN landlords may experience. Believe it or not the majority of real world landlords do have a range of negative experiences with tenants at some time in their career and it is landlords like myself that end up assisting them in those times of need when navigating the seedier side of this business.

You and the other REIN members that frequent the public forum may concentrate on what you believe can be controlled and I will advise and assist those that have encountered the uncontrollable.

Nobody needs the LTB but unfortunately there are about 10 % of the tenant population that frequently rely upon it to exercise control over their landlords. Not all landlords can enjoy the pleasure of owning high quality properties such as mine that have a minimum number of difficult tenants to deal with but the reality is that regardless of the quality of your property if you are in this business long enough you will experience bad tenants.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. You advise on your chosen topics and I will advise on mine. This way everyone receives all possible advice regarding all aspects of this business, the good, the bad and the ugly. No experienced advice is without merit.



I believe I have hijacked this thread long enough and apologise for doing so.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

[quote user=BruceS]doesn't apply to other landlords who rent single family homes, duplexes and larger rentals and who aim to attract prime time tenants.


Not every tenant is bad, in fact most are normal & pay on time and don't wreck a place. But, occasionally bad tenants are part of the business. In other words, if you own a large enough portfolio long enough there will always be some. Prepare for it with sound screening policies, clean legal contracts, practical eviction practices and a sound mind.



While swimming you can drown. Therefore, most swimmers start in shallow waters, with wings or in pools close to the edge. Only with experience do they continue into rougher, wavier and/or deeper seas ! As such, be a strong swimmer and avoid waters beyond your capacity !

 

[BruceS]

Thank you housingrental and ThomasBeyer for your replies.



My post is in no way a personal attack on anyone. It's all about providing true information to those reading here who are new landlords or are thinking of investing.



Greg, there's nothing to be ashamed about owning a trailer park. It's a niche market that I've looked into in the past and I know it well. While it's not for me, I can see how someone older, retired, and getting a union pension can invest in a trailer park and create a post-retirement job for yourself and a legacy project for your son. You don't have the same financial stress as someone who is a young or full-time investor without the security blanket of a pension and lots of free time.



What concerns me is providing good advice to people reading here. I've read Greg's posts for a while and honestly a lot of it simply isn't good advice for landlords who don't own trailer parks. It's especially dangerous when someone doesn't disclose what type of rentals they own yet post like they have a 'magic wand'.



As housingrental has correctly written the eviction process in Ontario can take time, but it's not the blackhole that Greg has stated. If you rent to low income/welfare trailer park tenants they often get Legal Aid involved (as they are low income/welfare). And the rules are different for tenants who live in their own trailers compared to tenants who rent single family homes, duplexes, etc. Trailer parks and evicting tenants from the homes they own (as they rent the land they are on) is a totally different process compared to what most residential real estate investors face.



The point is renting to tenants in a trailer park is legally and logistically just different in many ways from renting to non-trailer park tenants.



I own some single family homes, some 'plexes and a couple buildings.



I'm happy to try my best to share my experiences owning these types of properties with other members/readers.



There have been a lot of challenges along the way, but there's a reason I'm still in the business. Thankfully, I've had some good mentors and people who have been in my shoes and provided me with some really helpful advice.

 

[JimWhitelaw]

Apologies for dragging this old thread back on topic...



Did TenantPay revise their fees recently? I've been using it for a couple years without the benefit of a REIN "Members-Only discount" and I pay $1.00 per transaction for fewer than 25 doors. I agree that $5 or $10 per transaction is crazy expensive and not worth it. But it looks like the rates have been jacked up just for the purpose of discounting them back down. Or perhaps more accurately, that TP is no longer interested in working with smaller low-volume landlords? Seriously, $10 per transaction strikes me as a "go away, don't bother us" pricing strategy.