Return rent?

[orei]

I have performed an eviction of tenants for the 5[sup]th[/sup] of last month. Do I have the right to hold onto the full month’s rent? Is there any precedent that says I must return the ~25 days worth of rent for the days after they vacated the premises?

The tenants were removed for damage to the unit. I currently have a court order that orders payment for all the damages but does not touch on the subject of the rent. I would assume that this is part of the damages and is the landlords to keep - but am hesitant as the court order does not directly specify this.

This is in the province of Ontario.

 

[invst4profit]

Was the eviction through a LTB ruling.
Have the evicted tenants asked for there money back.
Did you have new tenants in the unit for the remainder of the month in question.

If they have not yet paid for the damages and have not asked for there rent back I would wait rather than offer to return any money. It isn`t really about right or wrong at this point regarding there rent it is more about timing.
Personally if they do not ask I would not return any money unless they pay up.
I am actually surprised they did not put a stop payment on there rent check

Don`t hold your breath waiting to see any damage money from them unless you have taken them to small claims court and garnished there wages.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (orei @ Jun 2 2009, 01:25 PM) I have performed an eviction of tenants for the 5[sup]th[/sup] of last month. Do I have the right to hold onto the full month’s rent? Is there any precedent that says I must return the ~25 days worth of rent for the days after they vacated the premises?

The tenants were removed for damage to the unit. I currently have a court order that orders payment for all the damages but does not touch on the subject of the rent. I would assume that this is part of the damages and is the landlords to keep - but am hesitant as the court order does not directly specify this.

This is in the province of Ontario.
Keep the rent to offset damages. I assume damages exceed rent. Send invoice for add`l damage to new address if you have it (unlikely I presume)

Re-rent.

if someone complains or ask for the rent .. then deal with it.

WHERE IS THE PROBLEM ???

 

[orei]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Jun 2 2009, 02:55 PM) Was the eviction through a LTB ruling.
Have the evicted tenants asked for there money back.
Did you have new tenants in the unit for the remainder of the month in question.

If they have not yet paid for the damages and have not asked for there rent back I would wait rather than offer to return any money. It isn`t really about right or wrong at this point regarding there rent it is more about timing.
Personally if they do not ask I would not return any money unless they pay up.
I am actually surprised they did not put a stop payment on there rent check

Don`t hold your breath waiting to see any damage money from them unless you have taken them to small claims court and garnished there wages.

Yes the eviction was through a LTB ruling. The ruling did not specify anything about the rent I had collected.
I did not re-rent the unit for the remainder of the month as it was under repairs.
The tenants have paid the court order but have now put forth a small claim for the ~9/10 of the rent. I have filed a defence but am wondering where the legal precedent on this is. I assume that the rent is part of my damages as I was unable to rent the unit but hope that the judge will see it the same.

 

[invst4profit]

Go forward with your assumption. Do not assume there is a president.


It is strange that the LTB did not discuss the issue of rent for the remainder of the month. If it were me I would probably wait and appear before the board if it was not too inconvenient. I would argue that because it was not dealt with at the time of the ruling you concluded that the board expected you to keep the rent. The board should have dealt with the issue at the time.
Argue that because the tenants did not raise the issue at the original ruling it is now too late for them to change the ruling.
Object if there dirt bag legal aid argues otherwise.

 

[orei]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Jun 3 2009, 07:19 AM) Go forward with your assumption. Do not assume there is a president.


It is strange that the LTB did not discuss the issue of rent for the remainder of the month. If it were me I would probably wait and appear before the board if it was not too inconvenient. I would argue that because it was not dealt with at the time of the ruling you concluded that the board expected you to keep the rent. The board should have dealt with the issue at the time.
Argue that because the tenants did not raise the issue at the original ruling it is now too late for them to change the ruling.
Object if there dirt bag legal aid argues otherwise.

I have submitted my defense to say something along these lines - arguing that as the unit was damaged I was unable to rent the premises and that the original ruling clearly permits me to keep the rent a compensation for the `damage` of lost rent.

I`ll post an update after the smoke clears.

 

[jwilbrin]

QUOTE (orei @ Jun 3 2009, 09:48 AM) I have submitted my defense to say something along these lines - arguing that as the unit was damaged I was unable to rent the premises and that the original ruling clearly permits me to keep the rent a compensation for the `damage` of lost rent.

I`ll post an update after the smoke clears.


In most provinces you are entitled to keep the rent if the tenant(s) are evicted for substantial breach of contract. Substantial breach of contract includes damages to property. If what you say is true that you are unable to rent the premises out immediately because of the damages then you are certainly within your rights to keep the rent.

I know the Alberta Landlord and Tenancy Act states that substantial damages to property is grounds for eviction with no requirement to return the rent.

Best thing to do would be to call the provincial Landlord & Tenant Advisory Board to get the most accurate information as rental rules and regulations vary from province to province.

 

[invst4profit]

http://www.landlordlegal.ca/

If you are in the Barrie area the "Terminator" is the one to call for help with tenant issues. If you are not in her area she may be able to direct any LL needing assistance to someone in there area.

Ontario is extremely pro tenants. As such As can expect very little support from the LTB.
There is not much point in calling the board as adjudicators have the discretion to rule however they please in most cases.

 

[RArora]

quick qs on keeping rent on a different note...

When you select a tenant and they sign a lease and give you first and last month`s rent, what is the law in ontario if the tenant changes their mind before the move and wants their money back-after signing the lease and giving the 1st n last month`s rent. DO we have to give it back? are they not actually now liable for the rent for the full lease!?

 

[housingrental]

OREI - I think I`m going to come in on this from a different perspective. I should add I`m not certain how they`ll rule and if you can send me an email and let me know how it goes in the future. If they`ve paid you for the damages it could be viewed that you need to return their money - they`ve paid you rent for a service, and you not them have chosen not to provide this service to them.

 

[invst4profit]

QUOTE (RArora @ Jun 3 2009, 05:37 PM) quick qs on keeping rent on a different note...

When you select a tenant and they sign a lease and give you first and last month`s rent, what is the law in ontario if the tenant changes their mind before the move and wants their money back-after signing the lease and giving the 1st n last month`s rent. DO we have to give it back? are they not actually now liable for the rent for the full lease!?

Because you have a signed contract they are liable. Normally a landlord would explain this to the tenant but suggest that they will make every effort to re-rent the unit. Better to find a new tenant than keep one that does not want to be there.
The tenant should understand that they are responsible until the unit is re-rented should the landlord chose to find a new tenant rather than hold them to there contract.
Realistically this may allow you 2 months to find a replacement.

 

[orei]

QUOTE (orei @ Jun 2 2009, 01:25 PM) I have performed an eviction of tenants for the 5[sup]th[/sup] of last month. Do I have the right to hold onto the full month`s rent? Is there any precedent that says I must return the ~25 days worth of rent for the days after they vacated the premises?

The tenants were removed for damage to the unit. I currently have a court order that orders payment for all the damages but does not touch on the subject of the rent. I would assume that this is part of the damages and is the landlords to keep - but am hesitant as the court order does not directly specify this.

This is in the province of Ontario.

Just wanted to update everyone on this item. Had the settlement hearing on this case(a discussion amongst all parties before a trial is held) and the judge told the tenant that he basically had no chance in winning the case if he pursued it any further. The major factor in this case was the fact that the unit was not in `rentable` condition when the tenants were evicted. I was able to show reasonable effort to restore the condition of the unit and re-rent it without delay.

Wondering where that tenant blacklist is so I can add a few names to save everyone the future troubles....

 

[invst4profit]

Congratulations.

Can`t say for sure but there may be a black list on the new LL web site/forum that is presently in the works. It will be a Canadian site mostly dominated by Ontario as I see it.
Where are you located?

 

[Dan_Eisenhauer]

I hope you took pictures of the damage.

At the very least, write a description of the damage you found, and keep your receipts. Create a book (three copies) with different tabs for presentation of your evidence and rebuttal.

Suggested tabs:
Photos of exterior of building and of the damage caused to the unit
Copy of you In and Out Inspections
Invoices
Written description of the damage
Copy of the LTB ruling
Copies of any notes or correspondence with the tenant
Letters from your contractors describing the work they did and how long they needed to carry out the repairs.

One copy is for the court, one for the other side, and one is your working copy.

I have said before, the one with the most notes wins. The other side, I guarantee you, will go in with nothing, expect maybe the LTB ruling, and simply say, "He owes us the money because we had to move out." If you go in armed to the teeth with your documented story, your chances of success are great.

 

[ChrisDavies]

QUOTE (orei @ Jun 3 2009, 08:48 AM) I have submitted my defense to say something along these lines - arguing that as the unit was damaged I was unable to rent the premises and that the original ruling clearly permits me to keep the rent a compensation for the `damage` of lost rent.

I`ll post an update after the smoke clears.


I think you`re right on target with this very simple defense. Don`t get overly complex, but do have some of the other suggestions in your back pocket (on in a thick folder on the table that you leave closed).