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St. Catharines Cracking down on Student Rentals--HelpAdvice and Mobilization needed!

hjung

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Hello all,

I`m requesting help and advice from any landlords with experience in renting to students in Ontario and in dealing cities wrt this issue.

The city of St. Catharines has begun "cracking down" on student rentals in the city. An article from the st. catharines standard is below.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/Article...e&e=1711766

In the process of all this:
1) The city has forced the evictions of students if they are living within a group of more than 4 in a house (i`ve personally spoken to a student who was evicted), even though the house was perfectly fine.
2) have threatened landlords with work\stop orders if they do not allow city officials to inspect the inside of their premises
3) required renovations to either make a single family house compliant to building code requirements for a rooming house or ask that any bedrooms in excess of four bedrooms be converted to a common area (i.e. remove doors to make into another living room\rec room, etc)

What i`ve written above is just a quick synopsis of what`s been happening in St. Catharines as of the middle of the summer.
(if anyone is familar with the legality of what the city is doing, please contact [email protected] or post a response )

The consequences of the city`s action are going to be detrimental the neighbourhoods of the city, to the students and landlords, e.g. some of the potential problems are of increase the number of student rental properties making it harder to enforce safe living standards, increasing noise in otherwise quiet neigbhourhoods, increased rents, decreased home values, lower profitability for landlords, ..etc. i can go on, but i`ll stop with that.

The city has consulted no-one in this other than the city itself. It`s a lose-lose situation to almost every stakeholder in this situation. As an investor\business one always tries to go for the win-win-win situation. Before this gets out of hand, I`d like to get together group of any and all landlords in the st. catharines area to begin some kind of dialogue with the city. A better solution is needed than the one currently being implemented by the city

I truly believe we can come up with something that meets the needs of everyone involved It`s just a matter of creating a dialogue with the right people and working collaboratively with the city. I`ve already met with a small group of landlords and property managers in St. Catharines, who have the same vision and we`ve begun moving forward contacting city officials, meeting lawyers etc to figure out a good plan of action.

If anyone wants to join in, please let me know and I can get you on our email list\discussion group.

if you have any help\advice\experience in dealing with cities who have done something similar (e.g. guelph, oshawa), please post or contact me.

some other random thoughts:

The city is in the process of crafting and passing a by-law which essentially limits the number of students living in house to 4 or less. it hasn`t been announced yet, as they are still in the process of coming up with a proposal. we`ve placed calls to the city to verify and it has been verified. At some point they are going to have a public forum to allow citizens to discuss the merits of the proposal. We need students,landlords, everyone affected to come out and voice the opinion (hopefully objections) on this matter.

The city`s stance is one of safety, yet it`s easy to see--even from the article--there`s a lot more to the city stance than safety (i.e. politics) and many inconsistencies in the way they are carrying out their new policy of safety.

As a landlord, I`m all for safety and providing a great living environment to my tenants, be they students or otherwise. I`m in agreement with the city on this. I, however, am not in agreement with how they`ve carried out their "solution". it`s probably a couple of bad apples who put 14 students into semi-detached that`s gotten the city riled up.....


Cheers,

Howard
 

Mike Milovick

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QUOTE (hjung @ Sep 11 2009, 03:24 PM) Hello all,

I`m requesting help and advice from any landlords with experience in renting to students in Ontario and in dealing cities wrt this issue.

The city of St. Catharines has begun "cracking down" on student rentals in the city. An article from the st. catharines standard is below.

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/Article...e&e=1711766

Hi Howard;

I am not sure if you have seen my previous posts on rental licensing or the importance of buying property that is properly zoned for its intended purpose. At this point, it looks like things are hitting the proverbial fan in your market place. I would attempt to organize as many student landlords as possible so that they are involved in the political process - rather than becoming a victim of it.

It was brought to my attention that there was a bank sale of a decent sized student portfolio in your City. I can`t help to think that it was due to the "crack down" that you reference. In Waterloo, the City has always taken a proactive approach to shut down illegals or non-recognized income property. And they are attempting to utilize the tools of rental licensing for even more power. I also mentioned, in a post, about a month ago, that this would be happening in your City soon. This should be a lesson for REIN investors that if you buy unrecognized property (whether it be unrecognized duplexes, student housing, multi-res with "extra" units(s)), you should have a game plan in place or fall back position for when the City finally catches up to you - if you choose to invest in a zoning non-conforming, unrecognized income property.

Organize your landlord peers and do your best to mitigate your losses. Be a voice at City council and hopefully you can win some concessions.

Mike
 

Mike Milovick

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Hi Howard;

Note MyReinSpace post of June 24. Search rental licensing and my name.

Mike
 

Andrew Benedict

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"If anyone wants to join in, please let me know and I can get you on our email list\discussion group."

I would like to join in... email is [email protected]

I have a number of student rentals in London and have been through a city inspection this summer. My problem was with the fire code saying something about four un-related people living in a house and calling it a rooming house.

Is this the same problem as you are having?

I find it hard to believe that the city can discriminate against students.

Thanks,
Andrew
 

housedoc

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Chop `em up, and pack in the students, eh?
Sure it`ll cash flow with 6-8 students, but not 4.....who cares? There`s cash flow until they "crack down".
You`re providing a needed service and these pesky rules keep popping up, right?
 

invst4profit

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[quote name=`Andrew B12` date=`Sep 13 2009, 07:27 PM` post=`65581`]

I find it hard to believe that the city can discriminate against students.



I don`t thing it is fair to cry discrimination because the city is enforcing there building codes.
As much as one may dislike the rules they are in place to protect the individuals and in this case to also protect the neighbours from overcrowding I would assume.
Not a good situation for LLs that have violated the rules but rules are rules and should be enforced and followed by all LLs in my opinion.

In Kingston the down town student area is an absolute ghetto in many areas and a disgrace to the city due to the lack of code enforcement.
Not being a student LL I would welcome a clean up of the student housing in my city.
 

Andrew Benedict

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dude seriously it was a 5 bedroom house with 5 friends living in it. i didnt "chop-em up", settle down.

building code? why does 5 students living in a 5 bedroom house not meet the building code, but a family of 5 living in a house would meet the building code?
 

luckyluciano

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QUOTE (AndrewB12 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:36 PM) dude seriously it was a 5 bedroom house with 5 friends living in it. i didnt "chop-em up", settle down.

building code? why does 5 students living in a 5 bedroom house not meet the building code, but a family of 5 living in a house would meet the building code?


was it a legit 5 bedroom, with a building permit?
 

invst4profit

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building code? why does 5 students living in a 5 bedroom house not meet the building code, but a family of 5 living in a house would meet the building code?

Because the code is different when non related individuals are living together.

Many different variables make a different code requirement. Five guys renting a home could bring in Five girl friends and then you would have Ten people. In Ontario it is extremely difficult for a LL to prevent this from happening other than relying on the building codes.
The code is the code. Why
does not matter simply accept the fact that it is the code. If the enforcement is incorrect that is one issue but if the number of individuals in a building violates the code you have no grounds to complain.
 

Andrew Benedict

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Sorry, I was not clear.

I have a 15-20 year old 5 bedroom house (built that way with permit). I rented it to a group of 5 friends on a single lease. I think it is unfair to say that if you’re renting to students you have to double the number from 5 to 10 in case there girlfriends move in. The girlfriends are not on the lease.

So if I to rent the house out to 5 related people it is okay, but if I rent a single tenancy of 5 student it is not?

I don’t agree with packing 5 people into a 3 bedroom house... I don’t think many student landlords would do that. It`s not like many students would move into a house like that in the first place.
 

housingrental

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Andrew actually in Waterloo, as in your market, there are many rentalable "chopped up" places. I have a number of houses that were originally three bedroom but now nine bedrooms (legal). Some of the concerns government agencies might have are:
Unwanted density in the neighborhood.
Increased fire risk in these type of properties due to tenant negligence
Electrical requirements
Smoke detector requirements. (ie interconnected, sensing in furnace ducts, amount of them (ie in each bedroom at some places).
Fire rating requirements on ceilngs, walls, doors, even bedroom doors and handles in certain cases.
Fire extinguishers
Servicing requirements for fire extinguishers and smoke detectors by authorized companies
 

invst4profit

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QUOTE (Andrew B12 @ Sep 15 2009, 11:39 AM) Sorry, I was not clear.

I have a 15-20 year old 5 bedroom house (built that way with permit). I rented it to a group of 5 friends on a single lease. I think it is unfair to say that if you`re renting to students you have to double the number from 5 to 10 in case there girlfriends move in. The girlfriends are not on the lease.

So if I to rent the house out to 5 related people it is okay, but if I rent a single tenancy of 5 student it is not?

I don`t agree with packing 5 people into a 3 bedroom house... I don`t think many student landlords would do that. It`s not like many students would move into a house like that in the first place.


You were clear. My point is that the bylaw you are referring to is very common across Ontario regarding unrelated individuals.
It does not matter if a LL considered codes unfair we must simply accept the rules and live by them. You do not have to like them.

As far as individuals not on the lease living in a rental unit this is also very common in Ontario. It is difficult for LLs to prevent this from happening.
 
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