Vacant Possession

[OlegP]

Hi All!

I am working on a deal in one of the Ontario Top 10 towns. This property needs a lot of work, but it is all cosmetic. Would it be legal to ask for vacant possession for the purpose of completing the necessary work? Of course, after completing the work, I would re-fill the units at higher rents.

Thanks.

Oleg

 

[donksky]

I don`t know if u have to prove tenants have to move out for the reno. I know for sure that smart tenants know they do have the first right in Ontario to move back in after renovation.

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (donksky @ Sep 17 2008, 04:42 PM) I don`t know if u have to prove tenants have to move out for the reno. I know for sure that smart tenants know they do have the first right in Ontario to move back in after renovation.


Currently the existing tenants are paying below market rents, which can be justified by the condition of the building. What would be the process to for me to raise rents to market averages, based on the fact that many improvements will be made?

 

[DonCampbell]

You can ask, in your offer, for vacant possession. Therefore making it the vendor`s responsibility.

However, if you take it over with the tenants still in place and do the renos you probably have to offer it back to the old tenants again.

So vacant possession upon take over is EXACTLY what you want to ask for in your offer.

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (DonCampbell @ Sep 19 2008, 04:15 PM) You can ask, in your offer, for vacant possession. Therefore making it the vendor`s responsibility.

However, if you take it over with the tenants still in place and do the renos you probably have to offer it back to the old tenants again.

So vacant possession upon take over is EXACTLY what you want to ask for in your offer.


Don, thank you very much for your suggestion.

Oleg

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Sep 16 2008, 02:35 PM) Would it be legal to ask for vacant possession for the purpose of completing the necessary work?
You can always ask. However, as a landlord it is not legal in Ontario to ask people to leave unless
a) major renovations are needed and approved by rental board
b) you move in yourself
c) they don`t pay their rent or break the rules, such as doing drugs or destroying things

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Sep 20 2008, 07:36 PM) You can always ask. However, as a landlord it is not legal in Ontario to ask people to leave unless
a) major renovations are needed and approved by rental board
b) you move in yourself
c) they don`t pay their rent or break the rules, such as doing drugs or destroying things

Thank you Thomas! I tried using point a), but rental board already said that the likely scenario is that they will only bless N13 asking tenants to move out while repairs are done, which means they have the right to return after the work is done and pay exactly the same rent as before.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Sep 18 2008, 08:54 AM) Currently the existing tenants are paying below market rents, which can be justified by the condition of the building. What would be the process to for me to raise rents to market averages, based on the fact that many improvements will be made?
You have to wait until they move out .. and then renovate .. or you should consider investing in a province or US state with less socialistic rent control laws !!

Welcome to the Socialist Republic of Ontario !!

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Sep 20 2008, 07:46 PM) Thank you Thomas! I tried using point a), but rental board already said that the likely scenario is that they will only bless N13 asking tenants to move out while repairs are done, which means they have the right to return after the work is done and pay exactly the same rent as before.
.. exactly my point .. isn`t this called "Socialism" ??

 

[jackie]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Sep 16 2008, 04:35 PM) Hi All!

I am working on a deal in one of the Ontario Top 10 towns. This property needs a lot of work, but it is all cosmetic. Would it be legal to ask for vacant possession for the purpose of completing the necessary work? Of course, after completing the work, I would re-fill the units at higher rents.

Thanks.

Oleg


Hi Oleg,

It is NOT illegal in Ontario to ask a tenant to leave. You can ask, but they can say No. If you do ask, don`t forget that money talks. I`ve never done it myself, but I`ve heard of other landlords paying an unwanted tenant to leave. I know one landlord inherited an unwanted tenant after purchasing an apartment and paid the tenant $300 to move out by the end of the month.

If you do buy-out a tenant, make sure they sign the appropriate form! Get it in writing; and don`t give a cent until they and their possessions are out.

If the vendor won`t include vacant-upon-possession in the purchase agreement, and if it`s still a good deal, then try to negotiate the purchase price down enough to cover tenant buy-out.

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (jackie @ Sep 21 2008, 01:05 PM) Hi Oleg,

It is NOT illegal in Ontario to ask a tenant to leave. You can ask, but they can say No. If you do ask, don`t forget that money talks. I`ve never done it myself, but I`ve heard of other landlords paying an unwanted tenant to leave. I know one landlord inherited an unwanted tenant after purchasing an apartment and paid the tenant $300 to move out by the end of the month.

If you do buy-out a tenant, make sure they sign the appropriate form! Get it in writing; and don`t give a cent until they and their possessions are out.

If the vendor won`t include vacant-upon-possession in the purchase agreement, and if it`s still a good deal, then try to negotiate the purchase price down enough to cover tenant buy-out.

Great idea! Reminds me of something I read in the "Art of the Deal" by Donald Trump.
Thank you, Jackie!

 

[OlegP]

QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Sep 20 2008, 07:54 PM) .. exactly my point .. isn`t this called "Socialism" ??


...and I honestly thought I left the Soviet Union about 20 years ago!

No wonder it is now hard to find a good deal. Prices went up significantly in the last few years. Rents went up by about 2% per year only. So we have a clear imbalance generated by Rent Control policy, where supply-demand for property (price) is not matched by the same mechanism in rental demand. The experience of the Soviet Union showed that such government policies (aimed at helping the working class) only helped decrease the wealth and standard of living for all, including the ones they tried to protect! I wonder if Mr McGuinty knows that...

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (OlegP @ Sep 21 2008, 06:29 PM) ...and I honestly thought I left the Soviet Union about 20 years ago!

No wonder it is now hard to find a good deal. Prices went up significantly in the last few years. Rents went up by about 2% per year only. So we have a clear imbalance generated by Rent Control policy, where supply-demand for property (price) is not matched by the same mechanism in rental demand. The experience of the Soviet Union showed that such government policies (aimed at helping the working class) only helped decrease the wealth and standard of living for all, including the ones they tried to protect! I wonder if Mr McGuinty knows that...

rent control benefits ONLY people who are in a suite .. it penalizes people who are looking to rent .. as they pay more than they ought to due to scarcity of rental supply ... so the "upwardly mobile" and investors will get penalized .. likely conservative voters .. so yes he knows it but doesn`t care as this is not his voter base !