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heat type as Electric/Baseboard

23994

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Hi,

while reviewing some properties, I found some of them have electric/baseboard as heat, my question is:

what are your comments of this type of heat? is it acceptance used as investment property? e.g. Multi-family property or student rental property which I have to pay the utility as landlord? my gut feeling it will be very expensive to pay the utility, is it true?

If I try to convert it to forced air, will it be expensive? recommended or not?

who has this type of investment property and please share your experiences, appreciated!

Sue
 

Matt Crowley

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Hi Sue,

I would try to stay away from electric baseboard heaters whenever possible. In Edmonton, we were seeing them for a while in legal suites that investors were "flipping" because they minimally met the requirements for "secondary heat source" in the basement. So instead of a furnace, these investors would install low-cost electric baseboard heaters, get a legal suite sticker, and flip the property as a legal suited house. They are significantly more expensive utility-wise and are not designed for operational-cost conscious owners. It would be very rare to see electric heat in multi-family property.

For a student rental, I would uninstall the baseboard heaters if I purchased it and heat the whole house using forced air. There is almost always existing duct work in place?
 

23994

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Thanks SweetZone, you are always helpful!
 

sbh

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I think it is too expensive if you as the landlord is paying that utilities. If you are passing the utilities off to the tenants than they also might think the same. My experience with Student rentals is they want utiltiies included, so having forces air or a boiler powered by gas would be ideal.

For secondary suites, basement heat still required a HRV (heat recovery ventilation) that circulates air in the suite. These systems can be tucked away in the floor joists of a suite so if head room is an issue then it makes sense. Otherwise, the cost to install the HRV and basement is pretty close to a second furnace and you don't save as much in utility costs.
 

Matt Crowley

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^ Additionally, HRV has to be on all the time. The models I know of are run off of electricity.

I hear what you are saying about passing off the utility costs to tenants. If a tenant pays for utilities themselves, they will be more cognizant of their personal usage.

However, ,ultimately, it really doesn't matter whether you are passing off your utility costs to your tenant or whether you are paying for them yourself. Tenants look at the total monthly payment, similar to purchasing a car. It is just what overall fits into their budget. If I have an inefficient utility delivery system, it is the landlord who ultimately loses rent and profit (Inefficient utility delivery is usually heat but also can be electricity if you are looking at LED upgrades or water if you are looking at low-flow options). If heating your unit is an average $50 more per annum than your competition, you are throwing away $600 a year that you could have added to your bottom line. If tenants are willing to pay $1,400 for a main floor with utilities, it does not matter if you fixed the utilities at $250 a month and call utilities a "profit centre" or whether you charge $1250 and the tenant holds utilities in their name and pay the true average cost of utilities for the household of $150 / month. In the long run, you will not walk away with more money.

The real money-maker in the rental business is renewals. Long-term tenants. Tenants look at how much they are paying in gross terms and look to the market for a way to beat it. Anyone can oversell a product once. Wow, $100 above market? Incredible! Now, ask them how many months they spent vacant, and if it is more than 4 weeks, I made more money than them per annum by having a $100 lower rent...and since I had a lower rent, I had a better tenant profile to choose from AND it is more likely they will renew next year because they feel like they are getting a deal.

Utility inefficiency = waste. You have to punch the numbers to see if the returns for the higher efficient models make sense. For example, LED's probably don't make sense for a SFH rental because the lights get turned off and on a bunch and that wears out the bulbs. Whereas, if you have an apartment building that requires 24 hour lighting they are much more likely to pay off.

Experienced landlords know to protect themselves when doing fixed-rate utilities. Personally, I prefer fixed rate utilities. But I know that in the long run, it does not make any difference whether I pay the utilities or my tenant does, long term tenants are concerned with the total property rental cost.
 
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23994

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do you guys has any experiences to convert the base board to forced air system? is it very expensive? doable?
 

Matt Crowley

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^ What kind of unit? SFH or apartment? Are the ceilings drywalled? Access to the joist cavity?

Just running venting in a basement suite in an open joist cavity will run you $5 - 7k after framing the bulk heads, adding Roxul insulation for a sound barrier, drywalling and taping.
 

23994

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it is SFH and over 100+ years old house, I have not bought it, just for reviewing and cost planning purpose...based on all of your tips and experiences, I would try to avoid base board SFH...
 
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