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Legal issue for condo

kreezo

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Hi,

If you have a 2br + Den condo, is it legal to convert the den into a bedroom to make it into a 3br unit? Is that legal?

Would the renter just sign a regular rental agreement as well? In case of a dispute, are you dealing with the same landlord-tenant relationships?

Chris
 

Aneta

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I have only personal insight. I used to own and live in a condo in Mississauga, 1BR with a den. The condo corp rules stated that den could not be a bedroom and that the max occupancy per unit is to be 2 people per bedroom. There were people in the building that used a den as a bedroom. I did not know of any owner who was able to convert it legitimately to a bedroom. Such activity would have to be approved by management and condo board. I also know that many of the resales on MLS advertised den as a bedroom, which I thought was quite unprofessional of the agents.

I guess it comes down to how strict the condo board is, whether your conversion would be discovered and if you feel like being 100% honest. As an owner-occupant, I was annoyed at the overcrowding of the units with dens as bedrooms, I was paying the same maintenance fees per sq ft. As a landlord, that may work out better, you may be able to charge higher rent.
 

Thomas Beyer

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A den differs from a bedroom in 3 aspects:
a) it usually has no window
b) it usually has no closet
c) it usually is smaller

Check the provincial definition of a bedroom first .. then check the condo board rules (if any)

Assuming there is a window, then I would argue you CAN add a closet yourself and call it a bedroom if size is not an issue.

However, most developers are not dumb, so why would they not call it a bedroom in the first place ?
 

kreezo

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So whether you can rent out the den as a bedroom, legally or not, really depends on the condo corporation`s rules. If you use it as a bedroom what sort of procedures do you have to complete for the conversion? Cause if you had a SFD and you wanted to convert it into a duplex - you would have to change the licensing/zoning.

The reason why I asked was that the 2Br + Den unit I looked at will only cash flow with the den but I`m not sure if thats a feasible and sustainable strategy
 

Thomas Beyer

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a 4th issue (besides window, size and closet) to consider is PARKING as a non-bedroom requires no add`l parking. So a 2BR + den may require 1 stall but a 3BR may require 2 stalls .. this maybe a condo corp. requirement or a city by-law or a provincial law.

Next step: phone city hall, and aks for the planning department. They are not very busy these days due to a lack of new construction.

They can advise you re "den vs. bedroom" in that specific project as the zoning requirements 2 blocks over may be different due to zoning and by-laws.
 

Aneta

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QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ May 1 2009, 03:00 PM) a 4th issue (besides window, size and closet) to consider is PARKING as a non-bedroom requires no add`l parking. So a 2BR + den may require 1 stall but a 3BR may require 2 stalls .. this maybe a condo corp. requirement or a city by-law or a provincial law.

Next step: phone city hall, and aks for the planning department. They are not very busy these days due to a lack of new construction.

They can advise you re "den vs. bedroom" in that specific project as the zoning requirements 2 blocks over may be different due to zoning and by-laws.

I would start with talking to the condo corp before taking time to make calls or going see the municipality. If you sense they are strongly against the idea, I would look elsewhere for deals, instead wasting time fighting against it. Toronto also has the additional Land Transfer Tax, which seriously hinders a cash flow situation (ie. you could put that extra money into downpayment or use it in your rental reserve fund instead of making it disappear).
 

housingrental

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If this is a newer condo it`s likely a lower sq ft unit.. likely den doesn`t meet building code standard of minimum square footage (along with possible window issue re Thomas post and other issues re other post).... I think but I`m not certain in Ontario it`s 65 sq ft with access to closet and 75 sqft with no closet access
 
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